Limits of freedom - neo-nazi march in Prague

Would you allow this march?


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Yes Democracies best defense against he facists is self destructing.

With anti-democratic measures!

Though, technically, if they did make up 51% of anyone voting, then in a pure democracy, they could set up the gulags and gas chambers and what have you. But even in republics with democratic ideals, they should at least still have the right to shoot their mouths off.

No.

As I said, totalitarian ideologies are like viruses. They wait until the society is weakened, for example by some sort of a civil strife, poor performance of the economy etc., and then they use democratic rights to destroy the democratic system.

You like democracy, that's fine, I like it too - it's the best available system of government, but it is not flawless and it is not invulnerable.

Like all systems, it needs certain conditions to work. When these conditions disappear, democracy becomes unstable and vulnerable to the long dormant totalitarian parties and groups.

Therefore, democracy must be protected. Not by taking away rights of normal citizens, but by outlawing those groups, which threaten it. Like a human body, democracy has to produce "antibodies" to fight an infection, before it spreads.

It can be done without making the democracy any less democratic. Simple rule would be applied: freedom of speech (and other freedoms as well) only for those who respect it. Once you abuse your freedom of speech to incite hatred or support anti-democratic ideologies, you'll be punished (by appropriate measures, I am not talking about shooting anybody who disagrees).

Europe has enough experience with situations, when democracies fail. You shouldn't ignore it, you should learn from it and that's what I want.
 
Winner, we've had our disagreements in the past... Me being a Russian Communist... You being a Czeck (or however its spelled) nationalist... But in this one instance can we atleast agree the Nazi's are the true enemies?

I am a Czech national, but I am far from being a nationalist. I am not even a patriot, this country is not worth it, yet.

Nazis are an enemy, but not the only one. I am against any form of totalitarian government, especially nazism, communism and religious fundamentalism.
 
UPDATE:

It's almost over - neo-nazis were attacked by anarchists, the police arrested dozens from both camps and prevented them from entering the Jewish town, where thousands of people met to show their support for the Jewish community.
 
So, given all the possible outcomes, it seems that this went as quietly as could be expected.
 
No.

As I said, totalitarian ideologies are like viruses. They wait until the society is weakened, for example by some sort of a civil strife, poor performance of the economy etc., and then they use democratic rights to destroy the democratic system.
I agree.

You like democracy, that's fine, I like it too - it's the best available system of government, but it is not flawless and it is not invulnerable.
No, it is not.

Like all systems, it needs certain conditions to work. When these conditions disappear, democracy becomes unstable and vulnerable to the long dormant totalitarian parties and groups.
That is true. That is why there are supposed to be safeguards and that is why there probably shouldn't be straight-up democracy. After all, minority rights, basic liberties and rights must be protected. That includes those of these whackjobs. There should be certain measures in place to prevent 51% from deciding to kill the other 49%.

Though, if they did somehow gain the support of a supermajority of the people, two-thirds and up, then there isn't much a constitution could do anyway compared to sheer force in that case.

Therefore, democracy must be protected. Not by taking away rights of normal citizens, but by outlawing those groups, which threaten it. Like a human body, democracy has to produce "antibodies" to fight an infection, before it spreads.
Who decides what is a threat? Yes, Nazis are an obvious answer, but how do we deal with more borderline cases if we're going to throw out the rights of people that have yet to commit a crime (based heavily on the assumption that your run-of-the-mill Nazi just decided to show up at this rally and hadn't gone out to rough up the nearest Jew)?

It can be done without making the democracy any less democratic. Simple rule would be applied: freedom of speech (and other freedoms as well) only for those who respect it. Once you abuse your freedom of speech to incite hatred or support anti-democratic ideologies, you'll be punished (by appropriate measures, I am not talking about shooting anybody who disagrees).
Again, who decides what "respecting" such freedoms would constitute? It seems that the Nazis haven't prevented people from showing up to support the residents of this community.

Now, if they overtly called for the violent overthrow of the government, you'd have a much better case and I'm presuming that there are laws about such a thing anyway. If they tried to restrict the rights of others in the area, then you'd have a much better case. But, as far as I can tell thus far, they haven't yet done either.

In fact, if you want to be real technical, the people that wanted to block the Nazis from marching down a certain area would be restricting the freedoms of the Nazis. Would they then lose their rights because they sought to deny it to this Nazi whackjob fest?

Europe has enough experience with situations, when democracies fail. You shouldn't ignore it, you should learn from it and that's what I want.
And hopefully Europe also learned what such people would bring and therefore, people wouldn't fall into supporting these nutcases they way they had previously.
 
well, nobody was killed? (rather rare event when the Nazi's are involved)
 
I think all nazi should be caught, killed and impaled by big wooden sticks all over town. Damn nazi. I think these people have NO RIGHT to do anything!
 
Good will finally defeat the evil. Good will put down evil on its knees and then kill it brutally.
 
Winner said:
If it was up to me, I'd throw them in jail simply for supporting this ideology.

I think all nazi should be caught, killed and impaled by big wooden sticks all over town. Damn nazi. I think these people have NO RIGHT to do anything!

Funny how people who rail so hard against an ideology like nazism start to sound just like those they criticize.
 
Funny how people who rail so hard against an ideology like nazism start to sound just like those they criticize.

But this one is better! Or something. I mean, who else to protect the rights of people than people that want to restrict the rights of others?

Taking away the rights of those that would take the rights away from others if they were in power sounds like a twisted circle with which there can be no escape.
 
Winner said:
If it was up to me, I'd throw them in jail simply for supporting this ideology.
I agree. As well, we should jail antiziganists too, considering the fact that the romani were just as victims as the jews were of the holocaust.
 
But lets throw the Cigans into jails too, based on the fact that their thieving scum who dont bother to educate(even though it's free) or try to get jobs simply content to mooch off welfare and steal whenever opportunity present itself.
 
But lets throw the Cigans into jails too, based on the fact that their thieving scum who dont bother to educate(even though it's free) or try to get jobs simply content to mooch off welfare and steal whenever opportunity present itself.

In to thoughtcrime jail for you, sir.
 
That's funny. Do you have an opinion on this then? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/12/2030384.htm
:rolleyes:
Let me guess, I already know your response. You'll come with some lame excuse about how this is different and how you vehemently oppose the protesters here.

Why would my opinion be different? I think the Vlams Belang should have every right to march against "The Islamization of Europe" or for any other opinion for that matter. Are you a "Vlams Belang" supporter Bast? I know, you may support their anti-Islam crap, but you should know that they are also anti-semite bastards who's oplitical paltform includes a "Full and unconditional amnesty for people convicted for collaboration with Nazi Germany after World War II.". Maybe you should go to Prague join the Nazi Rally, I'll be against your ideals but I support your right to voice them :lol:
 
@Winner: That's great, but

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


Or,

Who will guard the guards?
 
Funny how people who rail so hard against an ideology like nazism start to sound just like those they criticize.

when you tolerate the intolerant... well you are actually enforcing intolerance, right?
 
when you tolerate the intolerant... well you are actually enforcing intolerance, right?

Or in the case above, just skipping the middle-man and coming up with some intolerance of your own :)
 
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