Lonely Hearts Club, BtS Edition, Chapter XXVIII: Brennus

r_rolo1

King of myself
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
13,818
Location
Lisbon, Portugal
Welcome to the 28th edition of the Lonely Hearts Club for BTS. In the Lonely Hearts Club we explore strategies to cope with one of the most dreaded situations in Civ IV ( possibly the main reason for reloads after the military collapse one :p ): starting in isolation....

For the 28th game in BTS the choosed leader was Brennus of the Celts:
Spoiler :



Well, people asked for Brennus, here it is :p

Seriously, I like Brennus. His trait combo is one of the best in game ( Cha/Spi ), a very flexible combination for war and for peace ( I already told how much i like Cha..... and Spi is very good too ). His starting techs are kind of bad, though........ His UU/UB combo are kind of controversial, with lots of people shunning both ( I have a diferent opinion, but who cares :p )... In here we probably won't see much of both, anyway.....

His UU
Spoiler :

Oh, the very controversial Gallic warrior..... a swordsman that starts with guerrilla I and that can be built with cooper or iron. As a personal opinion, i was not too keen on them until I played a recent always war game with Boudica, and they are a very solid unit, regardsless of going to the guerrilla line or not ( another promo line that some people shun for no particular reason besides not being CR ;) ). as you can do them with cooper, you can get them earlier than normal swords most of the times and the free promo means that they can handle themselfs if you stay in the hills ( and the enemy can chop forests, but they can't flatten hills :p ).

But in here, unfortunately, the bigger action they will see ( hopefully ) will be taking barb cities ......

His UB
Spoiler :

Oh, the even more controversial Dun :p Dun is a wall that gives a free guerrilla I promo to the eligible units for it built in the cities with it. This means that only units that can have guerrilla I by default will have it from Dun, and that means archery and gunpowder units ( no, no melee :p This obviously excludes the Gallic warrior too ). A thing that is not told by the civilopedia is that the Dun counts more for the power rating than normal walls ( as most UU and UB, by the way )... not that counts much ( 3000 soldiers vs 2000 soldiers from a normal wall ).

In here... well, it will last longer than the UU ( until Rifling ), but I really can't see a good way of taking advantage of it :p

The start (for reasons that I'll explain below, the warrior may not be exactly in that spot in your game ):
Spoiler :

Nothing like a bucketload of food and not only a single tech to improve it since the beggining, again :p And to add, we are hemmed between sea north,south and west.... not the perfect scenario for a civ that starts without fishing :( Well, it surely asks for a GP farm in here.....

Regarding the saves: given some complaints about the efects of the AI starting without archery in high levels ( giving a unfair advantage to AI that have early UU and/or have early warmongering tendencies ), I decided to make 3 WB saves ( all in the same zip file ). The WB saves are equal except for the fact that one of them ( labeled Monarch ) has all of the AI with archery as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Monarch ), one ( labeled Immortal ) has all of the AI with archery,hunting and agriculture as starting tech ( corresponding to a game started in Immortal ) while the last is the corresponding to a game starting in Noble ( labeled Noble ). All WB saves are playable in all levels, but ( for a example ) if you use the Monarch one the AI will start with archery ( and archers ) in any level. This has only a slight effect in the human directly ( mainly via the garrisons of barb cities ), but has a huge effect on the AI gaming in the outer lands ( avoiding scenarios like Pacal, Shaka or Sitting Bull to take all the barb cities and becoming moguls ). I strongly recommend the usage of the Monarch save if you want to play in Monarch+ and the Immortal at Immortal/Deity.... All the speeds are working well ( no more games ending in 1900 ) The saves are zipped... you only have to unzip this to the worldbuilder saves or for the PublicMaps folder ( either one will do ) and load it from the scenarios.
Any problem PM me...

P.S WB saves are crosscompatible between 3.13 and 3.17 if they don't have No Espionage ticked. No problem with the patches here :p

Again a small request ( not mandatory :p ) :

We ask the participants to do, if possible, a write-up with the victory save and a description of your game ( strategies, techs researched, wars,...). All the info should be in spoiler tags ( to not disturb other people's games ). If you want ( we would like to :p ) post reports at this moments of the game:

Checkpoint 1 - when we have explored the island and are aware of what resources it has. Its not so important when this is, but this is a time to discuss city sites etc. Don't look into a checkpoint 1 spoiler until you have reached this point yourself.

Checkpoint 2 - first contact - when we have met all the other AIs. At this point we can discuss our strategy to get to this point and our plans for dealing with them.

Checkpoint 3 - when we are committed to a victory condition (or at least think we are).

Checkpoint 4 - Victory (or defeat).


The last words are to wish good luck to all :goodjob: . And let the games begin!



P.S We don't have any kind of problem with defeats and reruns. Just play and enjoy ;)
 

Attachments

  • LHC XXVIII.zip
    52 KB · Views: 258
After some easy emperor LHC victories, I took the crazy decission to play Immortal this time. I have very few games played at this level, and even less victories, none of them with isolated start, so wish me luck with this one.:)
 
Swordsmen require iron to be built, not copper.

FYI :)
 
Not getting it, Geny .... you are technically right , but I wasn't talking of swordsmen. I was talking of gallic warriors, that can be built with cooper or iron ( check civilopedia ). This means that they can be built in the turn you get IW, if you already have a cooper mine connected.
 
Emp/Epic

IMO, this is a pretty tough map.

Played through 1870ish AD:

Spoiler :


Settled in place suspecting metal 1N. It was - copper too.

Opening land was really obnoxious. We start on a little peninsula with BAD land on its path to our "mainland island". I went a heavy beeline for COL here - fishing, BW, pottery, priesthood, writing, COL. I wasn't that far from a philosophy slingshot actually :lol:, but lost oracle (wasn't trying very hard for it, took the $$$ and wasn't upset). Still founded confucianism pre-1k BC. This I needed, because city #3 was way the hell down there near that rice. Just not cool. Had 5 cities by 1 AD but tech sagged like hell with that distance maintenance. I did get TGL but that was the only early wonder I got (and other than oracle only I tried for).

I finished researching CS in the 800's AD - and lost liberalism in 860 AD! Whoa. When I met everyone I was painfully backwards, but at least we have all that sugar to trade for gpt and with tech broker whoring I caught up to just a little behind parity.

Interestingly, otherwise power-techer darius was still lacking steam power when I got to assembly line. Nobody really liked darius, either. I traded assembly line around for what I could, and went rush buying (even in this game, I CE whored) infantry/frigate/galleon. I took all of darius' coastal cities via bombard + land + capture next turn strategy, leaving CG II infantry behind vs rifles/cavalry (he never took a city back, did try a little). After I had all his coastal cities his last city was inland. I thought about making cannons or just suiciding infantry, but fortunately did neither. I rush bought 3 spies, and supported a very expensive revolt (1.8k, but hell, I already had 1.3k on darius so 1-2 turns of EP focus and it was done). Darius died.

So now I'm in a rough spot but not bad. I have a minor lead in land/pop over KK and his vassal Egypt (who idiotically has been defying every resolution, must have -10 anger or more), and am in a major tech hole to everyone. I just got industrialism, Hannibal has mech infantry and can research things like superconductor and laser. HC is going culture but other than aircraft can't make anything that I can't counter-produce.

The short-term idea is to rush-buy on HC and take at least one culture city (most likely cuzco, which sports the UN), hopefully forcing capitulation in the process. From there I'll probably tech to mech infantry and go for a naval strike + liberation strategy. If I can get enough capitulation I might win UN or even conquest but this map's been hard as hell. Hannibal might launch the ship too quickly but he hasn't made much yet so maybe I can do it all in time.
 
I lose. I would have won but the UN decided otherwise.

Just as a warning to all other players not using mods:

On emperor, it is possible for three different civs ranging from +5 to +6 net diplo toward an AI to vote that AI for diplo victory, despite indications of pleased not friendly or the fact that their displayed disposition to the human player is higher.

There are hidden modifiers, and the player, without mods, must know that these exist and are worth at LEAST +5. Just a heads up.
 
A much tougher island than Justinian had.

Checkpoint 1, 200 BC, turn 60. Quick speed, Noble difficulty. BW and IW have been researched in the screenshots.

Spoiler :

I settle 1W, comes back to bite me. There isn't enough room to get another city to work the western clams and crabs, but Bibracte is working everything else.

My Scout got double-teamed by a panther and lion, but not before getting 108 gold and Agriculture from the huts. Not too bad.

I founded Hinduism in Bibracte on turn 11, but decide not to convert. I know I'll forget to go back to heathenism (is that a word?) before I meet other civs, and we don't want that dip penalty, do we?

I founded Vienne SW of the rice, a calendar beeline seems in order. It's really killing me not playing as a creative civ, after playing so much with Louis and Willem I forgot how much working for a border pop sucks.

I whipped out the ToA in Bibracte, that'll help when more cities get built.

State of my world:




Anyone want to share their dotmap, and anyone have suggestions for the northern area with my capital location?

EDIT: I forgot to say that I have a settler sitting in Vienne, I'm ready for some REx.
 
I lose. I would have won but the UN decided otherwise.

Just as a warning to all other players not using mods:

On emperor, it is possible for three different civs ranging from +5 to +6 net diplo toward an AI to vote that AI for diplo victory, despite indications of pleased not friendly or the fact that their displayed disposition to the human player is higher.

There are hidden modifiers, and the player, without mods, must know that these exist and are worth at LEAST +5. Just a heads up.


This is a good thread to explain with base peaceweight visuals.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244799
 
This is a good thread to explain with base peaceweight visuals.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=244799

So, basically it's a loss because the THREE AIs that voted for the last AI all had similar peaceweights. That'd be +4 for the guys who had +5 to the winner already, and +3 for the guy who was +6. I had a feeling this was the case almost instantly after it happened, but it was barely plausible.

The one who was +6 was "friendly" to that AI and I don't know many AIs that will vote a winner at +9 though. So, there must be an additional hidden modifier for difficulty not covered in that OP.

Basically though, I got SCREWED HARDCORE here. Peaceweight is not something fireaxis readily provided players, and this phantom diplo bonus was enough to get THREE different AIs who were otherwise not friendly enough to vote for victory to screw me. The kicker though? Two of those AIs had HIGHER DISPLAYED DISPOSITION towards ME :(. There should be no such thing as a "hidden modifier". That's BS. If I'd known this was coming without looking into the the game's files, I could *definitely* have prevented this outcome.

I'm going to memorize the "peaceweight bracketing" a little better though. Even if this game was total BS for me, it's better if I prevent recurrence.

Edit: Senor K - it barely matters on these isolation maps since rush targets are few and far between, but I'd rather you worded it "metal resource techs researched" or something, so that it doesn't give away what's actually there and what isn't. Of course, I've played the whole thing already, but not everyone has ;).
 
Basically though, I got SCREWED HARDCORE here. Peaceweight is not something fireaxis readily provided players, and this phantom diplo bonus was enough to get THREE different AIs who were otherwise not friendly enough to vote for victory to screw me.

The real kicker is, Firaxis didn't even think anyone would be interested in a 'Glance Tab'...
 
The real kicker is, Firaxis didn't even think anyone would be interested in a 'Glance Tab'...

Glance would have certainly helped me to find the wrong data about whether or not I would lose to the UN more quickly :(.
 
Checkpoints 1 and 2 Emp/Normal

Spoiler :


Usually I would expect to win every game at this level but not to sure about this one. ;)

I settled in place, nearly moved for the extra food, glad I didn't as room for an extra city with 3 seafood. For a long time those were the only 2 cities I had.

I founded 3 religions and built the AP so that is a possibility for a win (probably my best chance). I went for optics to meet the neighbours but they met me about the same time and Darius even has Astro!! So much for settling my island slowly. Rushing around trying to fill in the blanks now.

Now the really bad news with 3 financial civs on the same land mass they are so far in front of me it might be hard to catch up. Bulbing would be a possibility except I've had quite a few GPs already and they are settled in Bibracte.

I'll add the save if anyone wants to have a look but I forgot to take screenshots. Not sure what the save is like as I sort of gave up but am going to go back and win or lose complete this game. :D

Played on to 1665 and things are looking a lot better. I did manage to get a jewish missionary in at least one AI city for the AP vote. Unfortunately HC liked it so much he spread it around and now has double the votes I do so won't being winning that way. Unless some of his cities fall into my hands by accident. ;)

Tech situation. I managed to trade a couple of techs around and have now caught up/gone in front.



Bibracte. Where all my beakers and hammers come from. I was going to put Oxford in there but its ended up with NE and IW.



Now who should I attack as I have a very strong army at the moment. ;)



Well perhaps not. :p Luckily most of the AI are fighting each other. The only one not involved is HC so I'm relatively safe at the moment but need some military asap.

Win possibilities. I think I will try for a domination win. We have oil so I'm going to head for Industrialism after Radio and see if I can bring HC down a peg or 2.
 

Attachments

  • Lonely Brennus AD-1240.CivBeyondSwordSave
    252.2 KB · Views: 131
Checkpoint 4

Spoiler :


I had decided to go for a space victory but then something changed my mind.



Oops I'm not going to win a space race before HC wins a cultural. Luckily he was pretty backward so my army of Tanks and MInf were able to take Cuzco. He brought in Shaka against me but after I had killed a few of his units he was willing to talk and.



Don't think that quite worked out how HC planned. :lol: There was a couple of UN resolutions to stop the war which I had to defy so +10 unhappies in all my cities. So to counter that I bumped the slider up to 80%. Didn't realise till much later it was the Esp slider and not cultural. :blush:

I couldn't afford to let up on HC as Hannibal wasn't far behind in the cultural stakes. So eventually.



The UN had voted for enviromentalism so I couldn't run State Property. Lucky for me this city had Versailles in it. :)

So after HC I healed my troops for a couple of turns then off to Carthage. No problems there and Hannibal duly capitulated. Next target Kublai. Another quick capitulation leaving Rameses and Darius.

They fell just as easily and.



Conquest Victory. :D

Thanks again for hosting this R Rolo. :goodjob:

 
I'll give this ago, I just couldn't get into the Justinian game, I kept on crashing my economy, or REDUCING my tech rate....admittedly I only tried it twice, but I keep getting worse...plus I've lost some desire to civ lately...

I'll go to Monarch level...as I'd just get killed at emperor, and I seem to be playing dumber lately..

I'll start on week end, as teams still in football finals series...Go HAWKS...
 
@ sleepless:

Spoiler :

Congrats - I was in a very similar situation and just got hosed by the UN. I'd already completely destroyed cyrus and HC was on 50k culture in his 2 non capitols (epic speed), so I was planning to hit him next with about tech parity (marines vs infantry) when he won UN from AIs that supposedly liked me more :p (and neither of us that much). If I'd beaten him though I was in excellent shape to get to mech infantry and just splatter everyone else.

Start loc of capitol and land around it made this a hard LHC, especially with all the financial AIs...very winnable though as long as they don't cheat with hidden modifiers :(.

 
Top Bottom