LotR7 -- Passive Culturalists

Early--not much. More civs start Sun tzu.

Middle: I held out buying CoL with the hope of brokeribng Monarchy--this hope ends when the Mongols get it. Buy CoL for 60g, wm, & 5gpt from Lizzie.

Late: At least 4 civs have Invention and have started Leo's. Market completes in Babylon--I have it building a cat because I did not want to build a worker before the city grows. Mongols demand & get tm+22g.

Have been training bowman in 2 cities throughout my turns.

I do not know how we are going to dig out--but we really need republic--we may be able to pick up the pace as libraries/markets complete,


EDIT: Sorry about the short report lacking is lots of details, but I was minimizing my typing, since I was playing with my one-month old in my arms.

The Game
 
OK...so we're in a deep DEEP hole. No biggie. I knew it was gonna happen. I didn't realize it'd be quite this deep and dark, but I still see some glimmers of hope.

We gotta get the civs fighting each other. I declared on England right away and blew nearly all our cash and income to get America to fight them. That's one slowdown. As soon as the alliance expires, though, get out and make peace in the phony war.

Continued building culture where possible.

Built two new cities in semi-poach positions. We're gonna have to be REALLY AGGRESSIVE in city placements if we're gonna have a chance. Another settler is headed to the SW to poach some site(s) there. Keep 'em coming. We're gonna need another 50 settlers, at least, throughout the course of this game. We should strive to always have one or two on hand. And while there are open spots, at all, we should've kept Babylon on the 5-turn settler factory. It's back close to that situation now and should run settlers for a fair number of turns yet.

An FP in the west is pretty high on my suggestion list, but I'm not sure where yet....

War with Zulu to plant some cities in their territory is looming before TOO long. Yes, it's bowmen vs. pikes/MDI but I set up an embassy with Rome, which is a prereq for an alliance. Hopefully we can buy them in and those two will fight each other, giving us a chance to get in, poach, pillage, etc.

I'm also working on connecting iron and more dyes for trade purposes. We need every trick in our arsenal and then some for this one....

I'd like to be Republic before fighting the Zulus and getting our GA, but I just don't think that's gonna happen. Up to the next leader(s), of course.

Save file at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr7-150bc.zip

GOOD LUCK!
Arathorn
 
150 BC - Look over the game... Grr. It appears that our reputation is stained as Mao won't accept any gpt for a tech (he indicates that we had a deal with England that we broke...). Let's see if America will deal with us. Yep. Ok, can I pull us into the next age? Well, by rearranging our tiles a bit, I can get both MM and Construction for 24 gpt and 74 gold. What I am not sure of is whether it is worth it... Finally, I decide to go for it. Our free tech is Engineering. Fortunately, there is one AI that doesn't have it. Unfortunately, I can't get anything more than Ivory for it... Even though we are planning on war against the Zulu soon, I ship them our dyes for 5 gpt.

130 BC -

110 BC - Ragnar must be close to discovering Engineering as he has become insulted at our offer of Engineering for Monotheism (as opposed to doubtful), so I decide to take whatever we can get from him... Engineering to Ragnar for Ivory, 6 gold, and his TM. Drop lux tax to 0%. IBT, our road to the iron is complete.

90 BC - Unfortunately, every other AI already has iron... The English want to end our war... We refuse.

70 BC - Whip the temple in Kish.

50 BC -

30 BC - Found Sippar. Whip the temples in Shuruppak and Zariqum.

10 BC -

10 AD - Well, one thing that the new patch changed is that the AIs won't offer you any gold if your wm hasn't changed since the previous turn... IBT, the Romans complete Sun Tzu's. Everyone else cascades to Leo's.

30 AD - IBT, the Romans and Zulu begin the Sistine Chapel. The Mongols complete Leo's. It appears that our potential trading partner in the future will be the Vikings.

50 AD - We can't get anything from England for peace, not even a TM. I'll let the next leader decide whether to continue the war or not... We can cancel our alliance with America against the English this turn; I am not sure if this will affect how England will view our peace offering (if we make peace with the English and then cancel our alliance, will we get a rep hit?)

There are three settlers currently available. Personally, I don't think there is much point in having Babylon complete another settler (after it finishes the one it is currently working on) as there really aren't any more locations we can poach...

Republic is due in 16 turns...

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR7PC50AD.zip

Skyfish, you're up!

Since I am going on vacation/work related travel today, this was my last turn in this game (I thought we would have gotten a bit farther in the game... Oh well :() I won't be back until the beginning of October, so you'll have to drop me from the roster (I'll probably be able to check in periodically to see how things are going, but that's all I'll be able to do...). Maybe there is someone else who can step into my spot. Good luck with the rest of the game...

JMB
 
Of course we have need for more settlers. What's the point of going to war against Shaka if we don't plant a bunch of cities between his cities? We're going to need a BUNCH of cities to get 100K culture in time and if free land is almost gone, we'll need to plop our cities down inside somebody else's cultural border.

It's an act of war to do so, but during war, it's only slightly different from pillaging. And we will want to put a lot of cities in amongst our foes cities.... It's our only real hope.

Arathorn
 
Hey I am very sorry but I cant get to the game before wednesday night : I have to ask for a skip this time :(

Sorry everyone !
 
Can't think of what deal we had with England, oh well.

Got it

Will try to play tonight but have to work late so may have to be tuesday.
 
I got to look at the game and play two turns (btw good job getting us into the middle ages JMB).

First, my feeling is that we want to plant a city in every little crack available. There are a couple spots still available in the south that settle in neutral territory but will steal tiles from other civs and/or have overlap with the first 9 of AI cities. Any dissenting opinions?

Also, I am wondering about war. Currently we are building city improvements and workers everywhere. Not one city is on military atm. I will try to shift this a bit over my turns, but should I go for full scale build up? I am torn, we can really use the infrastructure but we don't even have enough to protect ourselves atm, much less attack anyone. I can start on defenders, but to prepare for war will take a major shift of emphasis. Opinions?
 
Definitely plant cities wherever there's neutral territory. If there's a tiny crack, build the city and get it going on culture ASAP.

On the guns vs. butter debate... I'd really hoped that some of the natural aggressiveness of the chosen civilizations would have asserted itself and there would already be wars in progress. That not being the case, I see little choice but to start wars. Civ3 is kinda like real life in that once wars start, they often reflare. I'd keep the culture builds going quite a bit, but build up a few units (MDI?) to play defensive offense with in a war against the Zulu. I think Shaka, with an alliance with Siezure, is the enemy of choice in the near future....

We never want to fight someone alone....we want to encourage wars that tear down other civs while we pillage and steal land... How to best do that is not something I'm sure of at this point.

I guess I'd continue to emphasize infra with an eye towards an AW-type set of defensive/offensive units -- kinda heavy on artillery and no city-beaters necessary.

Arathorn
 
(IT) Rome, Zulu, and America start Sisi

(1) 70 AD - I feel some poaching coming on... Passive Culturalists or risky poaching culture builders - you make the call.

(2) 90 AD - Rome has muskets.

(3) 110 AD - Babylon back on 5 turn settler duty.

(4) 130 AD - (IT) - Rome demands and gets 23gold + TM, Caesar :love:

(5) 150 AD - I renegotiate our MA vs. England and this time get 22 gold + 1gpt from them. I couldn't resist this profit. Lzibia founded poaching a cow from the Zulu.

(IT) Zulu complete Sisi Chapel (!?!), that was quick.

(6) 170 AD, (7) 190 AD - Larsa founded. A Zulu city just expanded on a settler ready to fill a crack.

(8) - (10) 250 AD - nothing of note

I've got some settlers in the South, my plan is for them to cross Zulu territory and settle on the southern tip of our continent. We do not know the map down there, but I sent two just in case there is room. The Zulu territory is two deep, but the settlers shouldn't upset them too much...

We are down all visible techs during my turns (Feud, Mono, Monarchy, Republic), so no brokering though we now have alot of gpt and cash on hand. Our 40 turn on Republic will finish during Bam Bam's turn and I think it is worth buying Mono, and Theo if we can afford them so we can research PP @max, let's put those libraries to use. Otherwise, we may languish for a long time. I built a few bowmen, and started a couple cat's, now that a couple of our cities have temple, library, market, and courthouse they can be kept on military duty. We'll want walls at some locations too. We *must* have Rome in on our side to deal with the Zulu any time soon, and pray that the Vik's don't smell blood.

Whoo, what a hole we have built!!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem,_250_AD.SAV.zip
 
Got it. May be tomorrow night, since as usual, I am up in both my two SGs :rolleyes:

Looking forward to republic--will be nice to be able to cashrush--assuming we have any left after trying to climb up the tech tree.

Let's see if I can set up Arathorn to broker some techs with PP. :scan:

After LK48, I will never say there is a hole too deep to fill. Only problem here is that we are trying to fill in the hole with a teaspoon. :crazyeye: Given the difficulty level in Arathorn's varients, I expect that one of the LotR series to be the first to try AW-Sid when conquests comes out.

Don't take this ranting as complaining--I am more than happy to be a part of trying to win such a difficult game--just finding a whole lot of amusement with some of the concepts folks come up with to make the game HARD.
 
Bam-Bam -- UP NOW
Arathorn -- ON DECK

Poaching and allying and building and hoping and praying....sounds like what I expected. We're in a huge hole and the way out is unclear, but that's OK. Keep moving in the right direction and playing well and hopefully things will work out.

Arathorn
 
Inherited Turn 250 AD

Yep--it's a hole. I get laughed out of the room for even suggesting that we can buy Monotheism. Six turns to republic.

IT: Zulu declares war on the Romans! Yea! Poaching time!

260 AD (1)

A few bowman trained. Settlers heading to open spots.

IT: Chinese start Cop.

270 AD (2)

Renew dyes for ivory deal with Ragnor, with us pitching in 10g.

280 AD (3)

Moving to poach--another library completes.

IT: Zulus take Jerusalem--doesn't open up any more poaching.

290 AD (4)

Ninevah market--colosseum as cathedral pre-build. Ninevah bowman--cath prebuild.

IT: China demands dyes, and I cave. Too worried about a dogpile here.

300 AD (5)

Samarra bowman--market. Kish worker--worker.

310 AD (6)

The babylonian republic is born. More movement to poach.

320 AD (7)

The English have a wounded MI that has picked off two of our warriors defending Eridu. A bowman attacks, and we enter the golden age! Abe will take our gpt, so I buy mono for 5gpt and 460g. Abe then sells us Theology for 33gpt and 20g. No one has PP, but it will take us 21 turns running a 2 gpt deficit in GA. I pass and prey for min run on it. We need the cash to get education, which all but the mongols have. Nimrud founded, and another poaching setterl is in place.

330 AD (8)

Some temples and cathedrals complete. Another setter trained. The Zulu have lost Ulundi to the Romans, but it has not opened anythignn up. Zamua founded.

American signs up the Zulu against England. Rome takes Mpondo--nothing open yet.

Nothing much in the last two turns. Rome is going to crush the zulu--hopefully opening up room for us to poach. check out the stack of romans north of Ellipi. We should get another city site after Rome captures Intombe. There are 2 settlers in Ellipi and one in Sippar. I would hold off on education until we have some good progress toward uni prebuilds going, so that we can use the cash to rush libraries--temples and cathedrals.

I debated a bit about triggering the GA, but I cannot think of a better time--to get us up the upper half, and right after we get republic. Hope that was not completely against what the rest of the team was thinking.

Good luck, Arathorn.
.
Watch the Holey Romans
 
Yes, this is the time when we wanted our GA. Good call on that, in my opinion.

I think I may ally with the Romans against the Zulu. Hopefully, they'll give us some cash/tech rebate/something to help us out. I hope it doesn't create a monster Rome, though. Maybe should ally with Zulu against Rome? Scary thought.

Either way, though, we can then ignore borders with our poaching and poach right in the middle of previously occupied territory. I'm really hoping to get a few flips our way before TOO long. We should be culture mavens.... I hope F8 agrees with me on that....

I will also attend to an FP site if such has not been started.

Got it, needless to say. That was a positive set of turns. Now, if we can just make sure the Vikings and Romans fight each other instead of us, when the time comes, I'll be a happy camper.

Arathorn
 
Last time I checked, we were not looking too good on culture on F8.

I also checked to see what an alliance against with Rome against the Zulu--Caesar wanted US to pay. I doubt that will change, unless he hits a brick wall, which is doubtful with the size of the forces I could see.

I thought about starting on the FP, but figured there were enough cities with partial builds that could switch, and the GA just started.

The problem with any alliance either with or against Rome is that we need feudalism to put any sort of punch to our defense--I redlined the bowman attacking a redlined MI in jungle to get the GA. We have so much jungle around us that we need more than a 2 attack to make a reasonable attempt at defense with offense. We have not built any cats to my knowledge, either.

Anyway--good luck, and have fun with 10 turns of GA.

Bam-Bam
 
Oh, it's UGLY!!!!!! It's an ugly, ugly world out there.

Early -- rushed courthouse in Uruk, future site of our FP. Check out alliances. Cower in fear of even gassed Zulu forces. Instead, trade our only iron to the Zulus for Feudalism, Education, their TM, and 6 gold. Watch the Romans overrun a bunch of Zulu cities. Alliances against Zulus are being formed...against the Americans and English, too. But I wanna get China and the Mongols fighting, preferably each other. Settlers set out for tiny gaps, in the prayer of founding cities. But the Romans have so many troops (~100) in our lands and near the borders that it's basically impossible to get a city in edgewise....

Middle -- Found a bunch of cities in tiny spots. Send out more settlers for more spots. Big set of trades. WM, 66 gpt, 1 gold to Rome for Banking. Banking, 15 gpt, 2 gold to Scand for Astronomy. Banking, Astronomy to America for WM (nearly a full one by what people have), invention, PP, and 46 gold. Banking, Astronomy to Mongols for gunpowder and world map. Expensive, but we got 4 required techs. Min sci, hopelessly set on democracy. We have, sorta, two sources of saltpeter, but only one is quasi-hooked-up, and it's not on the rest of our road network. Then, the Mongols demand dyes and I tell them to shove it. They declare war.

Late -- try to get China allied against the Mongols. They're up to Metallurgy, at least, because they have cannons in their capital, along with 20ish troops. Get more settlers into/near position for quasi-poaching. Our culture is between 1.5 and in 1:1.5 ratio with everyone else's. That's BAD. Send iron (again...trade route was broken) and our only saltpeter to Zulus for 55 gpt, which will hopefully help them a bit in their wars, but also gives us enough cash to sign up the Chinese against the Mongols.

Be careful..we still have one undefended city in the southwest...near the really polluted area of a ton of cities.

Akkad's building a settler that should plant itself on the saltpeter.

FP won't finish by the end of the GA, but probably within 10 turns after that. Don't do any more big gpt deals, because it's gonna be a bit tight to get through the end of the GA with the deals I made. But I did get us 7 techs....

Save at
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr7-450ad.zip

Arathorn

Skyfish -- up NOW
Gothmog -- on deck
 
OK, but better make it 22 hours or so. I wont be online tonight, but will check first thing in the morning.
 
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