Luxury selling since the patch

[DaviddesJ]

My use of the word 'better' is based on my opinion that the majority of gamers share my opinion

OK, I don't know if that's true, and you don't know either, so there's probably little more we can say about it.

I do think you have to be careful with "majority of gamers" arguments. The majority of gamers prefer Starcraft II to Civilization V. But it doesn't follow that the publishers should make Civilization be more like Starcraft.

 

[KingMorgan]

Dunno, i'm tempted to defect to SC2.

150g per resource is OK, annoying, but probably better balanced for the start. Shame it doesnt scale in later eras.

The unit strenghts / fighting have been buffed slightly it seems. Also AI seem to build rather than fight, on an Imm conti game, Rashid hit modern age at 1000AD, 50 years later he was popping order polices and buying up the CS.

 

[grandad1982]

I like the change in the worth of Lux resourses but like others I think its should be possible to get 1:1 trades with your "friends". If I'm in a PoC or have had a good trade history with an AI or they really need that resourse then they should offer 1:1 (maybe even better for the human sometimes depending on circumstances). Also scaling value from the base 150g based on era or pop size wouldn't hurt.

I think the opacity of diplo in this game needs to be reduced slightly. Not by much as I understand and agree with the design principal behind it, but enough to give the human player an idea of diplo outcomes before you initiate them. After all in the real world nations know what other nations think of each other and will make deals that aren't just a rip off with their friends and allies.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Dunno, i'm tempted to defect to SC2.

That would put you in the majority---Civ5 may be a commercial success, but SC2 sales are still way higher. But that still doesn't mean that Firaxis/2K should make their games more like Starcraft.

Documentary films are less popular than dramatic films. But that doesn't mean that all documentary filmmakers should switch over to making dramatic films.

 

[War_Pig]

just sayign this to any/everyone i guess, but have all of you tried a post patch game yet? and i don't just mean start one then try trading to see what happens?

I only ask because i'm well into one now and it is going great, yes there's plenty of trading going on, have gotten plenty of 1 for 1 deals tho i am seeing some 2 for 1's too, all the research pacts i have been offered so far have been a fair just the even gold for it, can easily see the AI improvement (hell they have a navy now ) and i am loving all of it. edited: i have even had more then one 1 for 1 deal with a civ that i am Not in a PoC with. i think the added changes work out vary nice if you give it a try.

Now i know some of you have said you have started and played a game but im willing to bet there atleast a couple here who are adding there voice to the hate that havn't.

Playing on prince if any think it matters.

 

[Unearthly]

just sayign this to any/everyone i guess, but have all of you tried a post patch game yet? and i don't just mean start one then try trading to see what happens?

I only ask because i'm well into one now and it is going great, yes there's plenty of trading going on, have gotten plenty of 1 for 1 deals tho i am seeing some 2 for 1's too, all the research pacts i have been offered so far have been a fair just the even gold for it, can easily see the AI improvement (hell they have a navy now ) and i am loving all of it. edited: i have even had more then one 1 for 1 deal with a civ that i am Not in a PoC with. i think the added changes work out vary nice if you give it a try.

Now i know some of you have said you have started and played a game but im willing to bet there atleast a couple here who are adding there voice to the hate that havn't.

Playing on prince if any think it matters.

I have played a couple games, though I have not finished them. I think prince does matter. I've been playing on Emperor and I believe they get a happiness handicap. This would be more evidence for the fact that they'll trade if they need happiness (maybe <10?), but otherwise they're looking for profit. I have been able to make research pacts easily (though the AI has broken them several times to declare war on me, much to my displeasure ). I have also seen them make a navy, but not do much useful with it other than blockade.

 

[J-man]

I noticed that it's more difficult to form a pact of cooperation early in the game. Kinda stupid.

 

[Slowpoke]

My use of the word 'better' is based on my opinion that the majority of gamers share my opinion

Kinda doubt it's a majority. I and pretty much every player I've talked with beforehand believed lux selling was way overpowered. 150 sounds about right now. 100 would be better, since the A.I. essentially gains nothing from a lux trade but ever increasingly harder to get golden ages.

 

[MinutiaRules]

What was the problem with RAs? Aren't they equal and fair if both sides pay the same? What has happened in my games is that I don't have any RAs anymore. My impression was that people were not happy with how the AI conducts war. Well then the patchers should be trying to improve that. Don't just selectively eliminate other aspects of the game.

 

[Morningcalm]

What annoys me most about the luxury trading post-patch is that it isn't mentioned anywhere in the patch notes that the AI would demand more in its trades. Yet it does, on a consistent basis....why???

Kinda doubt it's a majority. I and pretty much every player I've talked with beforehand believed lux selling was way overpowered. 150 sounds about right now. 100 would be better, since the A.I. essentially gains nothing from a lux trade but ever increasingly harder to get golden ages.

Yes, I agree it was exploitable. But when trading a luxury resource in exchange for one of the AI's, they shouldn't demand 3 in return when they're neutral/friendly to you. -_-

Also, another thing that annoys me about trading. When Montezuma or some other AI pops up offering peace, and my side is filled with cities, etc....and I want to sue for peace with them later, and I fill my side with various things, the AI constantly rejects it without putting forth an offer (hey I want 19 of your cities as opposed to 5 this time). Rather than that, the AI simply says "No". I could probably fill my side of the trade with all my cities, all my gold and resources, and still get a (bugged?) refusal.

Also, why do the AI talk about "trades" when really they just want peace? How is a ceasefire a "trading agreement with England"? Lol.

 

[Chibiabos]

How the heck was it exploitable? An AI with 100 GPT would still only offer 9 GPT for a luxury, now its 3-4 GPT. The AI undervalued luxuries before, especially later in the game, now it is even worse. Attempting to trade or negotiate with the AI is a dead end now. If you want a resource, the game is even more of a war game with this patch since there is no option but war to get luxury and other resources with trade now worthless.

 

[Wurlf]

Sometimes I had a 1:1 exchange rate where the AI asked me for some cash as well (just like the RAs). About 175 if I remember correctly.

It occurs to me that the more luxury you have 'more' than the trading AI the more difficult is the deal.

I have been refused 2:1 deals as well, although I had two luxury to spare for 1 form the AI.

 

[wurstburst]

The new trading seems pretty broken to me. By broken, I mean that there is no incentive for the human player to ever use it to trade luxuries. I personally think they just made a mistake and changed the human lux level to 150 and forgot to Ai level to 150.

This really needs to be fixed to 150 on both sides, or they will have effectively removed one element from gameplay - and why would that be desirable?

 

[ohioastronomy]

The new trading seems pretty broken to me. By broken, I mean that there is no incentive for the human player to ever use it to trade luxuries. I personally think they just made a mistake and changed the human lux level to 150 and forgot to Ai level to 150.

This really needs to be fixed to 150 on both sides, or they will have effectively removed one element from gameplay - and why would that be desirable?

The design of this game is punitive, and they're approaching "bugs" in the same way. I predict some ham-handed and harsh response to the many-small-cities approach here - without any compensating changes to make, say, fewer larger cities more desirable.

 

[Bibor]

Dunno, i'm tempted to defect to SC2.

In a lobby of a medical conference:

"This new surgery equipment is horrible. I'm fed up being a neuro-surgeon, I'm gonna go be a talk show host instead. Who's with me?"

 

[Bibor]

This topic is a prime example of how people tend to underestimate or overestimate price and value.

Lets say 5 citizens can work 5 plains trade posts for a raw net gain per turn of:
5 food
10 commerce
5 hammers

The deal lasts for 30 turns so:
150 food
300 commerce
150 hammers

Our memory tells us "hey, we used to get one for one" ergo "hey, two for one is a bad deal."

It's not a bad deal.
It isn't as good as it used to be, but it's still a good deal.

 

[The Great Apple]

It's not a bad deal.
It isn't as good as it used to be, but it's still a good deal.

Exactly.

That said, the 2:1 ratio should only really be when the AI doesn't need the happiness (ie. always on higher levels...). I haven't yet seen this confirmed to be the case.

 

[Slowpoke]

This topic is a prime example of how people tend to underestimate or overestimate price and value.

Lets say 5 citizens can work 5 plains trade posts for a raw net gain per turn of:
5 food
10 commerce
5 hammers

The deal lasts for 30 turns so:
150 food
300 commerce
150 hammers

Our memory tells us "hey, we used to get one for one" ergo "hey, two for one is a bad deal."

It's not a bad deal.
It isn't as good as it used to be, but it's still a good deal.

I think people are also forgetting that because luxuries are worth half in gold now, by comparison the lux for lux deal hasn't really changed at all. You could originally trade 1:1 or for 300g. You can now trade 2:1 or 150g. Same difference.

 

[Martin Alvito]

This topic is a prime example of how people tend to underestimate or overestimate price and value.

No, you're forgetting to price alternatives. I can pay 300G for a luxury or 500G for a luxury I do not have and Food, Culture or units. Easy choice.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Nope Bibor; we see, yet again, a peaceful way of dealing with the AIs neutered in favor of war. They don't even trade with each other anymore, as it isn't worth it to them to do so (everyone wants better than an even deal, so no one gets a deal.)