Mac Users Play ModAcken - Challenge #1

[beetle]

I just don't see how to defend against Knights with the units I had at the time. Even if I had built horsemen I would have been crushed by one neighbour or another.

I think it is mostly RNG. Did you have a war before this one? I had no trouble with the northern neighbor, except that he settled too close to me.

 

[beetle]

Wait, where is the mac version of Acken's mod?

Sorry I missed this question earlier. The easiest thing is to click on the MOD link from the main menu, then search for “acken” when you first have the chance. No need to download anything directly, very smooth.

 

[Acken]

Hmm I just noticed the current Mac/Linux mod version has unmodded values for the tech penalty, forgot to make the change. I've just put it at 2% as it should be and updated the mod on dropbox.

Note that it should usually make the game easier the bigger your empire is or harder the bigger an AI is. If you want to compare with your current experience.

For the map itself I've played up to T80 to see how this version feel (windows users can use both version, but this one misses a good number of features):
-Chose Liberty. Sure value in the mod right now.
-Found ElDorado early and settle it around T8
-Angry Pacal, angry Morrocco and angry Nebby. Friendly India.
-I completely forgot that the mac/linux version do not have the overhaul of the reckless expander diplomatic negative opinion (the "too many cities" stuff). So after rushing 5 cities my neighbours aren't happy.
-I go Iron Working and get a few warriors.
-Gandhi propose a Coop war against Pacal, I accept since it would remove a threat. I make a simple 4 swords 4CB army.
-I capture Pacal city next to Uluru. Will use that to spread his religion which is rather good with Mosques, Monasteries and the new reformation to build culture stuff with faith.
-I finish the NC around T85 for 3 cities and get double dow by Babylon and Morocco. I don't really fear Morocco since he was a bit far north and I had bribed Babylon into a war with Venice. Venice is almost dead though so I will have to be very careful with the now big Babylon.
-Workshops are soon finished in my 5 original cities and I annexed Pacal city. If I can I'll add 2 cities in the south.
-Will add some pikes for possible knights and maybe wall the exposed cities. Pacal will have to go once I am stronger (made peace for 2 luxs).
-Built Pyramids too

Spoiler :

Sorry I missed this question earlier. The easiest thing is to click on the MOD link from the main menu, then search for “acken” when you first have the chance. No need to download anything directly, very smooth.

You mean you're using the Workshop Windows version on a mac ? You shouldn't since you will have even less features enabled !
For mac/linux it should be appropriately named: "MacLinux Acken MB (v2)" in your mod list.

 

[beetle]

I am not having trouble with Morocco, except he forward settled on me. He is not friendly, but in two games he has not DOW'd me.

You mean you're using the Workshop Windows version on a mac?

I guess so. I do not recall seeing “workshop” branding. I did not use the workshop link in your sig. And I note that your sig says that the workshop version is Windows only.

First I tried opening the attached file in OP, failed as expected with a message about missing content. So I backed out to the main menu, looking for anything promising -- since I had read that they recently added a MOD menu option to the Mac version.

It was all a little odd, and I had to go back and forth a couple times. From Steam to launch V, then V is bringing up some Steam overlay from within V. But I found a search field soon enough. It was something of trick to exit back to V from the overlay, but I eventually found it. Few of the controls follow the OS X conventions, and things are otherwise a bit arbitrary. But no direct download of files, no moving files into the right place, and no need to otherwise load mods. So was that Workshop? Back in V, the attached file in OP opens as expected.

How many versions are you maintaining? I count at least three (Windows, Mac-Linux, Workshop) -- but I guess I don't understand why two Window-only versions?

As I understand it, features are limited by the version. Am I correct then that the Windows version has everything, the Workshop version has the least, and the Mac/Linux is in between?

For mac/linux it should be appropriately named: "MacLinux Acken MB (v2)" in your mod list.

I will double check that, but I don't think so. Also, now that I have one version, after I finish my game I will try replacing what I have with your drop box version for Mac.

 

[consentient]

I think it is mostly RNG. Did you have a war before this one? I had no trouble with the northern neighbor, except that he settled too close to me.

I had no wars at all. Pacal made DoF then Denounced (I'm convinced this a bug/unexpected result of the mod) soon after. Babylon was solid but prob only cuz I have him my religion. I played peacefully, and Ahmad was very busy with the other AIs who were nearer than him, but just decided to attack, prob because I didn't make enough units. But I don't like the idea of having to build as many units in a peaceful game as I would in Domination. It would mean really long and slow games, with no doubt lots of aggression. I agree with whoever it was above that said the end result of the mod is that peaceful is over. I guess that could be a good new variant, but Domination too is just way more difficult with this mod, and definitely for me, too much to be really enjoyable. I'm a competent warmonger and enjoy long deliberate sweeps (like on the Cramped Challenge) but I don't like always being unable to keep my edge because the AI are out-teching me on account of how long it takes to seize the capitals and grow my power.

Oh well, I'm a bit of a lurker now I guess. I might play the next DCL, and/or the GOTM, but maybe not. I deleted Civ and Steam from my computer. I guess, like Kodak, we'll see what develops.

 

[beetle]

Pacal made DoF then Denounced (I'm convinced this a bug/unexpected result of the mod) soon after.

Denounce-after-DoF is a pretty common pattern in my BNW play.

Babylon was solid but prob only cuz I have him my religion.

Hmm. In my first game I gave him my religion and a trade route. He still would DoW me (with Pacal) out of the blue. Celts eventually ate him (and the rest of the map).

In my second game he founded and he ate Venice and the Celts have only two cities. I anticipate trouble.

I played peacefully, and Ahmad was very busy with the other AIs who were nearer than him, but just decided to attack, prob because I didn't make enough units.

Yes, from your screenie, he is doing pretty well. In my games he only has three cities, and is very defensive.

I agree with whoever it was above that said the end result of the mod is that peaceful is over.

I guess that depends what you mean by “peaceful”. I am expecting to win by SV, and take very few cities. I have just unlocked Ideologies at about T170, and only city was with a MoV. Two DoWs on me, but I was able to break up the timing, and not lose a city. Pacal accepted white peace just as the city was about to fall. I am glad the mac version still has that bug!

I guess that could be a good new variant, but Domination too is just way more difficult with this mod, and definitely for me, too much to be really enjoyable.

Things are tense, but I am favorably impressed over all. The nerf to Rationalism is a bit much though. As you know, I was already struggling with domination, so I never really figured out that part of the game anyway!

Oh well, I'm a bit of a lurker now I guess. I might play the next DCL, and/or the GOTM, but maybe not.

I don't anticipate playing Mac ModAcken unless someone posts a shared map. I really enjoy comparing my progress.

I deleted Civ and Steam from my computer. I guess, like Kodak, we'll see what develops.

Sorry to hear that!

 

[SooHongLoo]

Oh well, I'm a bit of a lurker now I guess. I might play the next DCL, and/or the GOTM, but maybe not. I deleted Civ and Steam from my computer. I guess, like Kodak, we'll see what develops.

Wow! You went from saying this Mod is the best thing for Civ V BNW to make the game fresh and exciting again to deleting the game completely from your system!! I understand though... this game gets boring after awhile because after you know how to win it is pretty hard to lose.

Give it some time though and you will reload the game because it is very hard to give this game up. I take long breaks as well but always seem to come back to it. It is basically a huge Love/Hate Relationship for sure!

It seems the GOTM just put up a Deity Brazil map as you deleted the game from your pc !

 

[stormtrooper412]

yeah that GOTM map sure looks very interesting

 

[Nigel_Tufnel2]

Islands is a different matter, Nige.

Could you do us a favour and play this map...

Haha, you can say that again! But the AI were still in full berserker mode, and made pretty good use of their navies. I'm telling you, Polynesia with full Piety and early Moai, especially on hills, with God of the Sea = beast mode policies.

I may try this challenge (I'm in Windows), but I started a couple Pangea Demi-God games as Alex. First one I wasn't able to use the UUs at all, I spread religion like crazy, good relations everywhere, then bam - huge DOW from long-time W neighbor Cas with every positive modifier possible while he was in at least one other war. Meanwhile Babylon to the E had GW and proceeded to get almost every single wonder. He was going to get a very early CV.

Second game (which I may post as a challenge) I spammed Hoplites and later CCav, and took out two neighbors, giving me a huge land area. Yet I am positive they outproduced me in units 2:1 early, and there is no way I would have even survived had I not bee-lined for the GW. I really think that wonder is now the most important in the game on Pangea. Also, this was one of the only games I've played where I didn't get a religion - I didn't even try. Yuck, not for me.

 

[Acken]

Denounce dof is a likely consequence of the AI being more angry than base BNW when it has a land dispute. It proposes a Dow then the land disposition changes it now wants your land, denounce.

Wow! You went from saying this Mod is the best thing for Civ V BNW to make the game fresh and exciting again to deleting the game completely from your system!! I understand though... this game gets boring after awhile because after you know how to win it is pretty hard to lose.

Hmm last time I heard it's the other way around. Consentient found it too hard and wasn't interested in having to learn how to win again.

T80-T170
-Not a very eventful midgame.
-Took Pacal capital which was loaded with all religion buildings. Pacal is eliminated by Gandhi.
-I have 3 Piety guys surrounding me which spread religion around, this allow me to secure a ton of religious buildings due to the faith wonders giving me a good faith and Uluru.
-I grab Pisa and Globe Theater
-I dip into tradition for the hapiness and then go Aesthetics
-With an engineer from Pisa I get Uffizi
-I reach Industrial through Oxford industrialisation and also grab Archaelogy. I'm a bit late in science but my economy is very solid and I'm well on schedule for culture stuff.
-This is the world fair and Im pretty sure I'll win with these well developped 9 cities.
-At T170 I get double dow by Nebby and Morrocco. They don't seem to have more than renaissance units so I'm not worried.
-Gandhi and Boudicca are good friends providing me with RAs.

Spoiler :

 

[SooHongLoo]

Hmm last time I heard it's the other way around. Consentient found it too hard and wasn't interested in having to learn how to win again.

Perhaps I have the wrong order of the Love/Hate Relationship of his game. I think we are all free to choose if we want to play the game or hate the game or love the game and round and round again. I was just surprised that Consentient went from posting this challenge to deleting the game completely from his system. I know how it is though because I am willing to bet he installs it back on in a few days or weeks because I have gone through that cycle myself!

So if like you say it was too hard and he wasn't interested... why post the map and start a new series !

I just was a bit shocked and like I said before it doesn't really matter. My problem is that I do not know how to actually load the Mod to my game which I play on Windows. Do I need to make a back up copy of my game so I can play one Mod Version and one Base Game Version?

Heck I get bored of this game at times myself and shut down games after 60 turns and go back to the saves weeks later. My last problem is a total Windows Crash and now I had to refresh the computer and lost most files and have to re-download the game again from Steam losing all my saved games!!

Damn this game I really hate it but I also love the idea of it! I still say that Civ IV is more of a challenge though but I find myself always playing this game more.

Re downloading Steam and my Game... another wasted 2 hrs of my life !!

 

[Acken]

No you don't need to make a backup. Note though that this map was posted for mac/linux users because it uses the incomplete version of my mod.

If you use windows and want to play a community map, just wait for me to post one this week.

You can already try the mod by yourself though. If you have steam the easiest way is to go in steam, go to civ5 community hub, go to the workshop, search for "Acken" and my mod should pop up. Then subscribe to the mod. Then in a game if you want to play with the changes just go to mods, activate it by clicking the box on the right and here you are
Or simply click the workshop link below.

Edit: Simple explanation video

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[beetle]

For mac/linux it should be appropriately named: "MacLinux Acken MB (v2)" in your mod list.

Nope, just says “Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v. 2)”. Nothing about “MacLinux”. I have not tried to overwrite files that are working with what is in your dropbox link. I very much like that I can subscribe to this version of the mod, and I am not sure I want to trade the convenience for the more complete version.

 

[Grendeldef]

Nope, just says “Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v. 2)”. Nothing about “MacLinux”. I have not tried to overwrite files that are working with what is in your dropbox link. I very much like that I can subscribe to this version of the mod, and I am not sure I want to trade the convenience for the more complete version.

A wild guess - you just copied the file to MODS -folder without unzipping it? The MacLinux*.civ5mod is an archive of multiple files & doesn't do a thing on its own.


I also started the game & seems like I'm going for total domination including religion. It just seemed like the easiest way to kill everyone so didn't have to check out all the details which are different from other versions.
One thing is for sure - the AI can surely settle pointless cities so @T180 I have two capitals to take & quite a few other cities to raze. For a change the conversion process isn't that hard, yet anyway.

 

[Acken]

Nope, just says “Acken's Minimalistic Balance (v. 2)”. Nothing about “MacLinux”. I have not tried to overwrite files that are working with what is in your dropbox link. I very much like that I can subscribe to this version of the mod, and I am not sure I want to trade the convenience for the more complete version.

At some point I may make a workshop version of this for convenience but you have to realise that you have policies that currently do nothing at all by using the windows files on a mac. For example the Religious Fervor piety you're playing with does nothing because it uses a method that is not available for macs.

It's been my mistake to not change the GUID number of the mod when I made the mac version Otherwise you wouldn't even have been able to load it with the windows version and avoid these shenanigans. I'll fix it in the future but if I do it now people wouldn't be able to play this map at all

Ideally all these troubles will be dealt with when I officially make my own threads.

 

[Acken]

Finished the map with a culture victory on turn 269.
The game was fairly straight forward after my last update. Invested into Rationalism and Freedom. Lot of policies by the end.
I think the end goes a little too fast because Great Scientist aren't fixed in this version so bulbing them to rush Internet still cuts down a good amount of turns.
Had to fight a few wars with Morocco and a long one with Babylon. Almost lost my northern city at a point. But since he wasn't able to really grow too big he was always a little behind in science.
Only Gandhi had a lot of culture, at around 55000 and a quick triple concert at the end caught up with him.

Spoiler :

 

[consentient]

Perhaps my reaction WAS a bit rash, but yes, I think I've just had enough, at least for a while.

I posted this map and started the series so Mac people could play a shared map, and I suspect if I hadn't, it would have at least been a while before anyone did. I'm glad to see that people are playing and enjoying.

I guess the main thing that bugged me was having to drop at least 2 levels to be able to be comfortable. It could be that if I did persevere with ModAcken I could raise my game and learn to beat it, of course. I might even be able to contribute to the body of strategy to help others, just as I learned the BNW 'ropes' from great players like Acken.

I just don't know HOW you can defend against an attack of the kind I received from Ahmad...that's the one big question going round in the Civ part of my head.

There is no doubt that in the BNW game, even Acken could have a game where you spawn on bad dirt with Oda really close, and no room to expand or do anything, and struggle, maybe even die. But this map has great dirt, and 3 ORDINARILY peaceful neighbours (OK Ahmad sometimes goes Full Honor on BNW but Pacal and Nebby have literally NEVER DoW'ed me on BNW), and I sucked. Hard to take :S

 

[Grendeldef]

Consentient clearly had vastly harder game than I did which ended T200 total Domination including religion & allied with all CSs after razing some 20+ cities. In the end there were 48 cities in total after Nebby ICSing like Hiawatha on his best day.
Also this to me was one more example that DemiGod is (much) easier then unmodded Deity or I've had some extremely lucky starts. Well, in this case that statement is justified.

Since this was DemiGod I skipped few things like worker stealing until I DoWed Pacal somewhere T65 to prevent him building Oracle. Also no navy of any sort, didn't tech Astronomy or Dynamite, stayed away from Rationalism which was fairly easy but to avoid Reformation I dumped some points needlessly in Autocracy.

Spoiler :

Palenque taken with CBs, then Marrakech with XBows, split the army & go for Haile & Nebby, save Edinburgh from Nebby's troops while passing through to Venice, wipe off Venice, then wipe out Pacal. Western army back towards India while the Eastern one taking rest of Nebby's cities & finally back to Edinburgh. Borderline Indian cities took some time but after the initial push apparently killed almost all of his troops the rest was only few turns away. Half a dozen GG bombs just to decline him from the land I hope of serious famine but a bit too little bit too late to make any serious effect but I was running on positive happiness anyway.
Meanwhile the Eastern army moved North killing the last 4 Moroccoan cities but I waited for CSs to take them out and same happened with 2 of Indian last six pack.

The religious conversion was much easier and I had hefty lot of excessive faith in the end. Annexed other capitals but Edinburgh to buy units everywhere and dump faith in Pagodas & Mosques.

Found the Skilldorado 1st, bought a settler sent that to Uluru but had to reclaim it from nearby barb camp and barely beat Pacal to the spot. As much as like the Inca while settling my 5th city I only remembered terrace farms but there wasn't much of mountains to make any difference. Pacal even denounced me before T30 while I was friends with Gandhi & Boudicca for long and once before t100 with Nebby. Nobody attacked me but I admit that my trigger finger was reasonably quick to prevent such actions.
Serious happiness problems as I was mostly negative up to T60 as I didn't have the manpower to improve the necessary tiles; Pyramids eased the pain quite a lot.
Machinery before Education and due to slow start Edu was somewhere T120 and I didn't even have Workshops ready by that time. Cash, on the other hand wasn't problem for most of the time and in latter half I bought unnecessary troops just use it for something.

Full Liberty, then full Honor, few in Piety before Autocracy. Somewhat refreshing not to be forced to take the happiness policies first. No one else had Ideology in the end and their tech rate was even slower than mine - few eternal wars probably helped with that.

 

[consentient]

I guess me not discovering ED until really late prob made some difference, but on this mod, ranged units are really weak, so I'm surprised to hear you using them so effectively.

SLIGHT aside: what do you think determines whether or not a given AI decides to do as Ahmad did in my game, or just sit tight and play it cool. Pure RNG, or more like a chaos-theory series of events (a butterfly flaps it's wings/Boudicca forward settles, and it all spirals from there) ?

 

[Grendeldef]

I guess me not discovering ED until really late prob made some difference, but on this mod, ranged units are really weak, so I'm surprised to hear you using them so effectively.

I do not totally agree that ranged units are weak apart from Archers - they're different than they were and not very effective on their own but accompanied with a suitable tank units they will still cut down a city very quickly. What they are not good at all is killing AI units but vice versa as long as AI is defending with ranged units one's units will have field day attacking the city all day long while 2 melees with cover II can take endless hammering.
In this game I on purpose used XBows until the end for continuous testing purposes and they were still very effective and weren't one-shotted by a city at any point. For the last stages of war I had several Cannons which are useful again - I don't really remember when I last build Cannons to be used as Cannons, not soon-to-become Arties. When the frontline cannonfodder can actually take few hits there's room for effective use of siege units.
In short a functional army if not requires at least makes very good use of versatility - the days of one mounted & gazillion archer-line units are over.

SLIGHT aside: what do you think determines whether or not a given AI decides to do as Ahmad did in my game, or just sit tight and play it cool. Pure RNG, or more like a chaos-theory series of events (a butterfly flaps it's wings/Boudicca forward settles, and it all spirals from there) ?

I might be totally off here but I'm a huge fan of settling in the face of a potential threat as long as there's a decently defendable city spot. In my experience it annoys the AI which I usually compensate with a caravan but extremely rarely provokes a military retaliation. An AI a bit further away is far more likely to attack if there's uncontested lands in between.
Also, before city itself was the optimal defender and if a well placed expo can keep foreign troops away from the capital I'm fine with it even if it doesn't actually produce that much - workable tiles in capital are usually much better anyway.
If/when carpet of comes the city location is the key and even more with this Mod hence I followed my own newish philosophy to significantly cut down the number of tiles from which the city can be attacked. When selling resources the unfriendly neighbours always have much higher priority than the rest - Legions with -50% resource penalty are not that scary at all besides AI is very reluctant to attack with a unit under RP.

Forward settling AI is usually easiest to hamper by early DoW - even without much of units. Just steal few workers, kill a unit or two & they'll settle for white peace and turn their interest somewhere else.