Make trading raw materials require trade routes? Supply chains etc.

[aandrzej]

Hello I wonder for more realism if we could add some mechanics making logistic trading supply chains a problem. For ex. would be cool to require trade routes for the things like horses coal etc to actually be available would open a road for many more interesting gameplay settings.

 

[usadefcon1]

I proposed something like this last Congress but it didn't make it past the sponsorship phase and I'm not smart enough to do DLL work.

Thread '(6-21) Block Resource Trading if No Trade Route With a Civ Is Possible' https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...no-trade-route-with-a-civ-is-possible.685849/

 

[usadefcon1]

The very first Congress vote ever was related to this and it failed.

Thread '(1-01) Proposal: Open borders needed for trade routes once unlocked' https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...needed-for-trade-routes-once-unlocked.679948/

 

[aandrzej]

Thank you i tried searching but didnt find anything.

 

[Tekamthi]

Those other two are only similar, but this exact proposal failed to find sponsor in first round.

(1-NS) Resource Trade gated by Active Trade Routes

Integrate caravan/cargo-ship trade routes with resource trading on the diplomacy screen. Proposed Implementation: resources only appear as available for trade in diplomacy screen if an active trade route (either incoming/outgoing; every TR is 2-way for resource access purposes) exists between...

forums.civfanatics.com

Seems like a good idea to me, I'd vote for it, but somehow I am guessing it wouldn't pass even with sponsor. General perception is that it would be too big a change gameplay wise, and too difficult for the AI to optimize. In any case your first task would be to find dev to sponsor

 

[aandrzej]

After reading the topics the only way (imho) to make it work (both from mechanics, AI and developer perspective) would be to invent something simple (on/off) based on other already working mechanic (like city blockade or something else that AI already knows how to use).

 

[Tekamthi]

In the thread I linked above, recursive commented that it would not be difficult to implement. Probably just comes down to adding a few lines of boolean checks and relevant code, at least to get the bare bones functionality in place.

I believe the concern lies with two things: AI and gameplay balance. AI ability to optimize would not be as sophisticated as humans (AI picks TR independently from any resource planning, whereas human would assess the best compromise resource/yield TR), and gating resource access to actual geography of the map, in any way, creates location bias and advantages to some starts over others, emphasizing RNG that the community has long sought to mitigate.

I don't think either of these amount to reasons not to do it, the former is just the way of most things in civ and the reason AI gets built in advantages, and the latter effect will be an enjoyable thematic outcome that shifts balance, rather than unbalancing the mod, imo. Still fits the "close enough" balance paradigm in my view, even if it does inch things over towards human.

It might be something to try adding a feature request for on git, to have it as an advanced setup option

 

[Bad_At_Diplomacy]

Hello I wonder for more realism if we could add some mechanics making logistic trading supply chains a problem. For ex. would be cool to require trade routes for the things like horses coal etc to actually be available would open a road for many more interesting gameplay settings.

As someone who works in supply chain, it's actually really difficult to stop certain people from getting what they want (e.g. Russia, Iran, North Korea) in a globalized world. Gray markets, customs fraud allow state actors to get almost anything, albeit at a much higher price.

I mention this to say, changing the system seems to take away from realism.

 

[Tekamthi]

As someone who works in supply chain, it's actually really difficult to stop certain people from getting what they want (e.g. Russia, Iran, North Korea) in a globalized world. Gray markets, customs fraud allow state actors to get almost anything, albeit at a much higher price

I don't read OP as trying to "stop" any thing from being exchanged, rather to tie the structure of trade and logistics together in the context of its existing implementation

Taking your comment at face value, that it's difficult to stop state actors from acquiring materials -- isn't it several orders of magnitude even more difficult to teleport materials between states? That's what we currently have

 

[usadefcon1]

I don't read OP as trying to "stop" any thing from being exchanged, rather to tie the structure of trade and logistics together in the context of its existing implementation

Taking your comment at face value, that it's difficult to stop state actors from acquiring materials -- isn't it several orders of magnitude even more difficult to teleport materials between states? That's what we currently have

What we have now is Asia trading with South America in the Medieval Era.

 

[azum4roll]

What we have now is Asia trading with South America in the Medieval Era.

Not really until late Medieval with Caravels/Explorers meeting each other.