pineappledan
Deity
There has been a lot of talk about the Espionage system as of late, and I have tried to avoid the conversations up until this point. I figured I would throw my hat into the ring for what I think an Espionage in one of these games should mainly be about: Vision, information, and decision support.
I think the reality of the current state of the espionage system is that it gives nothing that players want, because players are already getting too much stuff for free. The only thing that is left for spies to do is contribute to yield inflation by stealing X and giving it to you, or rigging elections in city-states. They're just another economic tool, on top of the 7-8 other economic mechanics that the game gives you. Another system that derives its value from yields.
I think if more of the diplomatic and strategic information needed for players to make decisions was locked behind the espionage system that people would use it more, and respect it more.
Currently Spies do the following for players, with respect to vision and information:
Here is a list of information that players are given with no conditions, and that could be locked behind needing a spy in their lands. List is not exhaustive:
Proposal:
Spies:
I think the reality of the current state of the espionage system is that it gives nothing that players want, because players are already getting too much stuff for free. The only thing that is left for spies to do is contribute to yield inflation by stealing X and giving it to you, or rigging elections in city-states. They're just another economic tool, on top of the 7-8 other economic mechanics that the game gives you. Another system that derives its value from yields.
I think if more of the diplomatic and strategic information needed for players to make decisions was locked behind the espionage system that people would use it more, and respect it more.
Spoiler example of a leader UI box in the game right now :
Currently Spies do the following for players, with respect to vision and information:
- Share “intrigue” with you
- Give vision of a foreign city
- Gives you access to that city's UI view, giving you access to the following information about that city
- Production queue
- Building list
- yields per turn
Here is a list of information that players are given with no conditions, and that could be locked behind needing a spy in their lands. List is not exhaustive:
- Player Score (the order in the top right could be there, but you don’t necessarily need to see their exact scoreboard)
- Demographic rankings (right now, player identities are hidden until you meet them. Their rankings could require a spy to reveal instead)
- Diplomatic opinion modifiers towards you (we are competing for world wonders, border disputes strain relationships, etc.)
- List of Wonders they own (can be visible from the map tiles, but could get a complete summary from spies)
- Number and types of policies adopted
- Total number of Technologies researched
- Total Population and number of Cities
- Diplomatic status with other players besides you (ie. War, Open Borders, Defensive Pact, and Friendship status with other players)
- Access to another civ's top ribbon information. ie. their global yields per turn, when they will reach their next policy, tech, golden age, great person, etc.
- What tech they are researching
- Access to another civ’s trade summary
- Access to another civ’s city summary
- Access to a civ's military unit list. this guy:
Proposal:
Spies:
- Spies in City-States are weakened
- Rigging Influence reduced to 2/3 of the present amount
- Coup probability lowered. Successful coups very unlikely unless you are already within 50 influence of the leader
- Can no longer put spies in your own cities. Can no longer kill spies.
- Spies are unlocked at Medieval, and all civs get 2 to start (except England which gets an extra 1 from game start)
- Spies lose all experience and revert back to level 1 when they are assigned to a new city
- Level 1 spies/diplomats in any city give you access to the target civ's policy, tech, wonders, and city/population information
- Level 2 spies/Diplomats in any city give you access to the target civ's Demographic rankings and Diplomatic opinion breakdowns, and Diplomatic status with other players
- Level 3 Spies Get access to a passive spy mission once that level is reached. Spy missions just add yields; they do not steal/siphon yields:
- Embed in the Aristocracy: You gain 4% of the City's culture per turn for every Policy the target civ has in excess of you (not available if you are tied or beating them for policies)
- Embed in the Intelligentsia: You gain 4% of the City's Science per turn for every Tech the target civ has in excess of you (not available if you are tied or beating them for techs)
- Embed in the Black Market: You gain 8% of the City's Gold per turn and 2 copies of a Luxury resource the target civ owns that you do not have.
- Mostly the same as now
- Grant vision and intelligence, matching spies lvl 1 and lvl 2 bonuses
- Give a 10%
Tourism Bonus - Give +1 WC vote once Globalization is unlocked (super late game)
- Give access to Vote Trading for the WC
- In addition to enabling Vote trading. Brokering Peace and paying civs to go to war requires a Diplomat.
- There are 4 ways to raise Spy security level. Each level reduces the yields of enemy spy missions in your cities by 25%:
- Constabulary (local)
- Police Station (local)
- Free Though Rationalism Policy (global)
- Great Firewall (Global)
- In addition to adding a level of security, reducing enemy spy yields in your cities, the Great Firewall also blocks spy vision of all your other information
- NIA gives a free Spy and gives you yields per turn for each active spy or diplomat.
- Bletchley Park makes all your spies start at level 2 and gives all Naval melee units vision of submarines
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CS influence.