Malakim Desert Mechanics

[Kjara]

Blizards are a different in that they are at least somewhat limited.

Not sure if it would be worth it(and I think blizzards are not in ff2 just AOI?) would be a sandstorm type of event. Not sure what it would have to do, could be a immobilizing/defense reducing event for all non Malakim in the squares where it is hitting(non desert dwellers have to hunker down and ride out the sandstorm, while the Malakim who are used to it, are able to predict the lulls and travel in them, perhaps with slowed movement, but still able to move).

Would give a Malakim a movement advantage in deserts without resulting to damaging other people traveling through. And if they struck an enemy trapped by a sandstorm, could do a great deal of damage. Again, this doesn't help them want desert, so would need to be in addition to something to make them not change them to plains, but could be a alternative to the above damage ideas.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sandstorms and blizzards AoI style as random events? now that could be fun and flavoury without being overly intrusive - I like that.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

I like the sandstorms... but unless the Malakim are totally unaffected by them, there's an even bigger reason to get rid of the desert to get rid of the headache...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that's really easy, just give the random event a malakim-only choice : "so what?" that makes the event have no effect on their units/territory/whatever

 

[deadliver]

As tempted as I am to go back to slamming the mystical death field mechanic, I just can't bring myself to do it because of my fond memories of Age of Ice.

How about having deserts count as plain tiles for Malakim? You know, let them build on it just like a plain tile and give it the same and as a plain tile.

Would that be difficult to implement? Granted it is not innovative as some of the other ideas being offered but it would work.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You could add sandstorms as an event, but I'm not sure you could make them have graphics that way and needing to select an option often could be really annoying. Can you make them not require a pop-up but just make the python that does the effect not hurt the Malakim?


You could also try making Sandstorms a Feature, which is actually closer to how AoI Blizards worked. If you want, you could make the Sandstorm feature spawn randomly in Deserts (like Flames do on burning sands, but hopefully we could make them less common) and expire after a couple turns. You could then use the <PythonOnMove> tag to add a function that leaves the Malakim (and maybe also Malakim allies?) alone but damages/immobilizes anyone else.

Now that I think of it, that probably isn't a good idea; it could really slow things down on maps with lots of deserts, it would be fairly easy to avoid moving into sandstorms (and only effect those who do move in, not those who stay), and it would probably lead to the destruction of all Shrub and Floodplains.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

If you wanted to go nuts, it would be thematically really cool for sandstorms to have a chance of spreading desert if it's sitting at the edge of an existing desert.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

As tempted as I am to go back to slamming the mystical death field mechanic, I just can't bring myself to do it because of my fond memories of Age of Ice.

How about having deserts count as plain tiles for Malakim? You know, let them build on it just like a plain tile and give it the same and as a plain tile.

Would that be difficult to implement? Granted it is not innovative as some of the other ideas being offered but it would work.

very easy, just make the malakim start with a new tech unique to them that gives +1 food +1 plains from desert tiles, and then add some new improvements unique to the malakim that look exactly the same as the normal ones but can be built on deserts. this should be enough afaik.

 

[Kjara]

Another option with sandstorms might be to give a unique malakim unit(mabee a religious unit/hero?) the ability to summon them (possibly only within malakim borders?).

edit:Wanted to chime in that I like the treat deserts as plains idea as a simple fix. Though, prob want to not have that effect applied to flood plains(aka keep them as they are now)? Starting with a bunch of 4f, 1h, 1c tiles would be pretty powerful. Esp since they won't have the forest problems every one else has early game. Perhaps we need to treat shrubs for them like forests if we go this way?

 

[deadliver]

Sandstorms? If anything that would encourage people to spring deserts so their gfx cards don't melt. Though come to think of it that would be a cool Sun spell or ritual to build, summoning on a massive sandstorm that lasts x number of turns.

I like this guys idea:

How about having deserts count as plain tiles for Malakim? You know, let them build on it just like a plain tile and give it the same and as a plain tile.

Would that be difficult to implement? Granted it is not innovative as some of the other ideas being offered but it would work.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm not sure I want to see a bunch of improvements in Malakim Deserts, from a primarily aesthetic perspective. It would be easy to just give them a tech that boosts the yields of Desert terrain and maybe reduces the yields of the Floodplains feature by the same amount.


Sandstorms could be a nice spell/summon too, perhaps an Archmage version of Sand Lions? Actually, it seems like it would make the most sense as an Air spell that could only be cast on deserts, maybe a Malakim only version.

 

[Kjara]

I'm not sure I want to see a bunch of improvements in Malakim Deserts, from a purely aesthetic perspective.

Pulling in some old ideas for aesthetic purposes:

For this could have something like goats/camel herds to replace farms(in the sense it would still function exactly like a farm(or possibly differ only in the techs that create, and improve it), just would have a different graphic)?(or something else food related that seems like it could live in at least a semi arid land assuming the Malakim magic is allowing them to eke more out of the land than you would normally assuming from a desert, perhaps upgrading the land to semi-arid?)

Could have the nomad tribe be the replacement for the cottage, as the nomads trade with the city, generating commerce(we'll ignore for now the fact that the nomads are probably raiding foreign traders for the commerce? ). I agree that we would want sparse improvements, to show that we don't have the usual farm/town running in the square.

 

[PinkPikachu]

I think it would be nice if not only did Malakim get some kind of bonus in desert tiles, but also that their cultural borders caused desert to spread a LOT faster (not quite as fast as Hell Terrain, but enough that it outpaces the cultural borders themselves and begins to spread into your neighbors).

Then, Malakim players CAN'T decide to play outside of the desert, because soon enough all the world's a Sand Box! (unless they go water/adept crazy and change it all back, but that would take serious micro management).

Sure is Sand Armageddon in here. Seems like the devils got sand in there pants and decided to destroy the world in barren sand.

If Malakim started desertizing my land, I'd be hitting that crap so fast...

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Yea, I think this thread has been talked to death at this point

 

[lock]

Hi,

just a little question.

the malakims have the nomad trait. It must give them "double movement in desert".

All units with +1 movement get 2 instead, ok.
but it doesn't work anymore with the camel archer for example. this unit has a +3 movement range so it should get +6 instead ?

so in fact, where is the nomad trait bonus ?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The way "double movement" is calculated never does any good for units with more than 1 movement, except for not costing more than 1 movement points to cross through terrain that would typically slow units down.


There is no difference between this and "double movement" in forests from woodsman II or Elven or in hills from Guerrilla II or Dwarven.



Nomad still has a deserts combat bonus on attack and defense (although it doesn't quite offset the defensive penalty that everyone has)

 

[MaxAstro]

Although if you are attacking someone who is on Desert, your attack bonus plus their defense penalty can make for some nice odds.

As a side note, I seem to remember that for some reason even move 1 Nomad units don't get double movement over Flood Plains. I might be remembering from an earlier version (haven't played Malakim in a while), but is that still case and is it a bug or a feature?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, I believe that the way it is set up double moves on base terrain don't work on features useless you have doubles moves of the features too. Thus, they don't get double moves on either Floodplains or Scrub.

 

[Blackmantle]

Also for units not gaining a defensive bonus its a double gain.
So Malakim nondefenders are actually highly competent defenders in Derserts reaping the full benefits without the penalties. Including those neat camel-riders and the likes.

Scrub abit oddly (but seems thematically sound overall) reduce the movement costs of Deserts to 1 obviously. So the move-cost redution is not all so much needed to get through them just as fast as through deserts for malakim.

 

[MaxAstro]

Scrub abit oddly (but seems thematically sound overall) reduce the movement costs of Deserts to 1 obviously. So the move-cost redution is not all so much needed to get through them just as fast as through deserts for malakim.

What bothers me a bit is that move 1 units can move ~faster~ across plain desert than across Flood Plains and Scrub for the Malakim...