Math03: OCCC
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
commodified
Calculator
I think Scientific, Militaristic, and Industrious are the best traits for our game plan. Superficially ind. might not seem very good (not many tiles need improving for our sole city), but it pays dividends in productive slaves and rapidly building war-roads and colonies. Scientific's good for getting the jump on a knight UU (tends to give monotheism as the free MA tech, which is of course necessary for Chivalry). Militaristic is good for promotions, although we'll probably have only one army at any particular time. (speaking of which, does having one city afford 1 army or 0? 
)
I'm thinking Mongols might actually be a decent choice. We could probably pop 2 or 3 techs with scouts as expansionist, and Keshiks might be good because they only require one resource, and it would be slightly easier to build them in 2 turns a piece than a regular 70 shield knight. Ansar warriors are better, of course, but I don't like the Arabs' traits for OCCC. Just some thoughts.
)I'm thinking Mongols might actually be a decent choice. We could probably pop 2 or 3 techs with scouts as expansionist, and Keshiks might be good because they only require one resource, and it would be slightly easier to build them in 2 turns a piece than a regular 70 shield knight. Ansar warriors are better, of course, but I don't like the Arabs' traits for OCCC. Just some thoughts.
you need four cities for an army , so no armys for us
we need the game braker UU. The ansar would be great but arabs have bad traits (rel-exp)
we might go with india (com-rel) because WE dont need any resurces to build.
rel will also give us temple and catedral very fast
maybe even japanese (mil-rel) samuray only need iron to build and are exelent uu.
note i dont favor the religius but it happend that civs with the best UU (for the OCCC) have the rel trait
we need the game braker UU. The ansar would be great but arabs have bad traits (rel-exp)
we might go with india (com-rel) because WE dont need any resurces to build.
rel will also give us temple and catedral very fast
maybe even japanese (mil-rel) samuray only need iron to build and are exelent uu.
note i dont favor the religius but it happend that civs with the best UU (for the OCCC) have the rel trait
TheBB
Prince
There are five civs with a knight UU:
Arabia (exp, rel) 4/2/3 (60s)
China (mil, ind) 4/3/3 (70s)
India (com, rel) 4/3/2 (70s) + HP
Japan (rel, mil) 4/4/2 (70s)
Mongols (exp, mil) 4/2/2 (60s)
I suppose we aren't very interested in a religious civ, so that leaves China and the Mongols. Both are militaristic. China is industrious and the Mongols are expansionist. The UUs are 4/3/3 for 70s with China and 4/2/2 for 60s with the Mongols. Personally I'd go with China here, but the traits are also important, of course...
Edit: Whups, forgot the resources. Riders take two of these things. Might be tough.
Arabia (exp, rel) 4/2/3 (60s)
China (mil, ind) 4/3/3 (70s)
India (com, rel) 4/3/2 (70s) + HP
Japan (rel, mil) 4/4/2 (70s)
Mongols (exp, mil) 4/2/2 (60s)
I suppose we aren't very interested in a religious civ, so that leaves China and the Mongols. Both are militaristic. China is industrious and the Mongols are expansionist. The UUs are 4/3/3 for 70s with China and 4/2/2 for 60s with the Mongols. Personally I'd go with China here, but the traits are also important, of course...
Edit: Whups, forgot the resources. Riders take two of these things. Might be tough.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
lurker's comment: Don't overlook the viks: no ressource, great attack UU, knight-like timing, SEA-MIL. All things you can't overlook imho. I think if you don't pick them I'll play your game with them 
TheBB
Prince
Vikings would be cool too. I live in their capital, so... heh. 
Well, we've already set on playing on 60% pangea, so SEA would be mostly wasted. Vikings might be fun nonetheless, but my current abilities might not be up to playing them on pangea. Maybe in another sg after this experience...?
I guess it comes down to what challenges we'd like to face. Would we rather worry about acquiring resources (China)? Or would we rather live with a weaker trait combo (India, Mongol)? Personally, all the UU's we're talking about would be fine with me: Ansar, Jumbo, Rider, Keshik, Samurai are all cool.
One feature of the UU's that doesn't factor in is the price: Ansars are cheaper to build, yes, but it's not our production that will limit our military, it's our unit support.
Nobody's mentioned it yet, but the short anarchy feature of REL is always nice. Although I think EXP (huts and map knowledge) is still stronger than REL for us.
For me, my preference remains China. My second choice would be Mongols, as a middle-of-the-road solution; only one resource needed for the UU, decent traits (mil & exp).
Mathias, I'm not clear: is this a strict OCC? Or can we keep cities inside a turn, to possibly get an army built?
I guess it comes down to what challenges we'd like to face. Would we rather worry about acquiring resources (China)? Or would we rather live with a weaker trait combo (India, Mongol)? Personally, all the UU's we're talking about would be fine with me: Ansar, Jumbo, Rider, Keshik, Samurai are all cool.
One feature of the UU's that doesn't factor in is the price: Ansars are cheaper to build, yes, but it's not our production that will limit our military, it's our unit support.
Nobody's mentioned it yet, but the short anarchy feature of REL is always nice. Although I think EXP (huts and map knowledge) is still stronger than REL for us.
For me, my preference remains China. My second choice would be Mongols, as a middle-of-the-road solution; only one resource needed for the UU, decent traits (mil & exp).
Mathias, I'm not clear: is this a strict OCC? Or can we keep cities inside a turn, to possibly get an army built?
commodified
Calculator
I think China's definitely the best for our purposes. I'm just a little tired of them, having played them in two AW games in a row. 
Since this isn't AW, I don't think we need to worry about trading for missing resources too much.
Since this isn't AW, I don't think we need to worry about trading for missing resources too much.I was set on pangaea before I posted this thread. I wasn't thinking about the Vikings and their amphibious Beserks, so if we would like to run with them, we can change the landmass and water coverage to something more appropriate. If we stick with pangaea, we'll go with China.
commodified
Calculator
I vote for the original plan--pangaea. I'd like anything but 60% water. 60% water pangaeas tend to just be big blobs.
I edited the first post with all the settings. I tried for a little while to get a nice ivory start, but it just wasn't happening. Here's 2 starts to choose from. The first is nice, with 4 hills, and the second is a coastal location so we could build the Colossus if we played that one.
commodified
Calculator
Conventional wisdom is that the Colossus is necessary for OCCC, because of the price of unit support. I'd move one tile SW on the second start.
TheBB
Prince
Yeah, let's go with second. There's also a jungle tile in the first.
TheBB
Prince
Well I can give it a shot. Got it.
TheBB
Prince
Well that was quick. 
(1) - Move settlers SW, worker to cattle.
(2) - Settle Beijing -> Warrior. Road the cattle. Research on BW @ max, due in 17.
(3) -
(4) - Worker finishes road, start mine (hope this is ok, I figured we need the shields).
(5) -
(6) -
(7) - Beijing Warrior -> Pyramids (prebuild). Send warrior to mountain to the west.
(8) - Worker finishes and moves to the BG to the north.
(9) -
(10) - Worker roading BG. Warrior sees a GH. Since barbs are restless and we're not exp, I decide not to look into it (we can wait till we have more units).
(11) - Move warrior around.
(12) - Beijing expans, start mine. We have dyes to the SE, we need a colony or another expansion to get it.
(13) - Warrior moves north.
(14) -
(15) - Get BW, start on Alphabet. With the Colossus so far away, we won't build granaries for a while. It's due in 8. Colossus due in 42.
(16) - Worker finishes mine, Colossus now due in 32. Move worker to game tile N-NW of Beijing.
(17) - Start roading. Beijing grows, luxes up. Warrior finds a coast.
(18) -
(19) -
(20) - Worker finishes road and moves to other BG.
I think maybe I could've cranked out another warrior before going at the wonder. Sorry about that.
SAVE
I'm confused now. Is roaming below or above restless?
(1) - Move settlers SW, worker to cattle.
(2) - Settle Beijing -> Warrior. Road the cattle. Research on BW @ max, due in 17.
(3) -
(4) - Worker finishes road, start mine (hope this is ok, I figured we need the shields).
(5) -
(6) -
(7) - Beijing Warrior -> Pyramids (prebuild). Send warrior to mountain to the west.
(8) - Worker finishes and moves to the BG to the north.
(9) -
(10) - Worker roading BG. Warrior sees a GH. Since barbs are restless and we're not exp, I decide not to look into it (we can wait till we have more units).
(11) - Move warrior around.
(12) - Beijing expans, start mine. We have dyes to the SE, we need a colony or another expansion to get it.
(13) - Warrior moves north.
(14) -
(15) - Get BW, start on Alphabet. With the Colossus so far away, we won't build granaries for a while. It's due in 8. Colossus due in 42.
(16) - Worker finishes mine, Colossus now due in 32. Move worker to game tile N-NW of Beijing.
(17) - Start roading. Beijing grows, luxes up. Warrior finds a coast.
(18) -
(19) -
(20) - Worker finishes road and moves to other BG.
I think maybe I could've cranked out another warrior before going at the wonder. Sorry about that.
SAVE
I'm confused now. Is roaming below or above restless?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
lurker's comment: I can't help but wonder wether or not is it a tip of some coast, at the very E end of #1... could you give us drooling lurkers the seed for it ? 
Interesting, one warrior, mined the cow and headed for colossus. I haven't looked at it closely yet, but I don't think that's what I would have done. Although it might work out well...
I can't take it next as I'm in full SGOTM mode tonight. Next turnset should be pretty straightforward; keep researching alpha, keep building colossus, work the land, try to make contacts. We should talk about other stuff, though, like next research and builds. I'd like to get out mps then workers after the wonder. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking MoM at some point. Do we want the GL too? I'm not sure about the research; it depends on trades...
I can't take it next as I'm in full SGOTM mode tonight. Next turnset should be pretty straightforward; keep researching alpha, keep building colossus, work the land, try to make contacts. We should talk about other stuff, though, like next research and builds. I'd like to get out mps then workers after the wonder. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking MoM at some point. Do we want the GL too? I'm not sure about the research; it depends on trades...
Interesting, indeed. Certainly not what I would have done, but it will work. I agree with Mach's comments. After alphabet, we should go for writing. We may have a chance at republic slingshot. In any case, we should get out of despotism asap.
For what it's worth, I would have irrigated the cattle and researched pottery first, then cleared the forest with the game to speed production of granary. This would have given us +5 food per turn for maximum growth. The quicker we are up to size 12, the better off we will be in the long run.
The next 4 turnsets, i.e. one each for the rest of us, will be 15 turns each. After that, all turnsets will be 10 turns each.
This is ok, but irrigating food bonus is almost always better, because faster growth means more citizens, and therefore more shields and commerce.TheBB said:
For what it's worth, I would have irrigated the cattle and researched pottery first, then cleared the forest with the game to speed production of granary. This would have given us +5 food per turn for maximum growth. The quicker we are up to size 12, the better off we will be in the long run.
The next 4 turnsets, i.e. one each for the rest of us, will be 15 turns each. After that, all turnsets will be 10 turns each.
