MELI1 - There aint no leaving the Union - 5CC AW Monarch

[Aggie]

Originally posted by jack merchant
True, but we will have to prioritize a few other techs first I think (Warrior Code, Bronze working and maybe the Wheel and IW come to mind) since we can't rely on trading for them with Alphabet alone and without iron we're most certainly toast.

There is only one tiny flaw in the early Philo gambit and you HAVE to point it out?

Originally posted by jack merchant
Last thing to think of is how are we going to win ? With only 5 cities, we're going to be limited to conquest, space or the rather unlikely 20k culture (as if we could spare a city for that long). Conquest could be rather tricky on a continents map, but 5CC space in a monarchy........

You forgot the 100K victory

EDIT: But you made an intersting remark. We actually only have the Space and Conquest option open. Conquest is -if we get that far- something I look forward to

 

[jack merchant]

I wouldn't mind the 100k, as long as you make the spreadsheet

 

[Greebley]

Betazed,

I just realized the term "pike" is not clear. I mean specifically the swiss pike with its 4 defense rather than a normal one. That would be the same as a normal musket.

 

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by jack merchant
I wouldn't mind the 100k, as long as you make the spreadsheet

lurker's comment:
Ouch!
[relurk]

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Greebley
Betazed,

I just realized the term "pike" is not clear. I mean specifically the swiss pike with its 4 defense rather than a normal one. That would be the same as a normal musket.

Hmmm...

I still think it would attack. Because I have seen AI cavalry (attack points 6) attack fortified infantry (defense 10).

So this case would not be any different.

 

[barbslinger]

Good luck gentlemen!

 

[Gengis Khan]

[stealth mode-off] A great & challenging variant! Although IMHO, it's a bit easier then the regent 3CC AW, due to being able to build armies, FP, Pentagon, Hero Epic, Wall St, ect ect. Those 2 extra cities help out a BUNCH.

This is kinda offset by the fact that your leaders will no longer be able to rush Wonders.

Good luck!

[stealth-mode on]

 

[Melifluous]

Yay....

Lots of lovely chatter...

First things first.

1) Kuningas. You beat Sid? You're in.

2) Will the AI attack a Swiss Merc? I have been testing some things and have found that the AI would rather attack a heavily defended City rather than a Fortified Spearman in the Open (but they did only have horse and archers)

3) Jack and Aggie... Interesting points here, but seeing as I have already played the first 21 turns then its a moot one I fully intend to go for Philo first. IW and The Wheel can be traded for I'm sure, and if not then it will take about 4-5 turns once they are known by everyone else in fact we still might get first on one of those. It's only Monarch after all

So as hinted I have played the first 21 turns and quite dull they were too thankfully.

Full report to follow shortly.

Melifluous

 

[Melifluous]

OK, I played to 3000BC, Built 2 warriors and scouted around before pulling back. Granary completes next turn and we will then hit size 4.

Some fairly decent lands around, nice mix of hills and forest, with plenty of rivers

Some discussion needed I think as to our city placement.



Melifluous

 

[Corrado]

Okay, general question on city placement to open things up.

Since we're limiting ourselves to 5 cities- do we want to go for a very wide placement in order to make the cities most effective and the culutural borders the largest? Or should we go for a tighter placement that makes our defense easier, but will hurt us once those cities hit high populations?

I lean towards a large spread- defense may be tougher, but we seem to have enough coast around us to keep our borders defensible.

For our first city, I'd suggest 6 squares directly NW of Amsterdam. It's next to fresh water for a food bonus, on a hill for defensive bonus, right next to Silks for more luxes, and has a good mix of hills and forest for production with grassland for food.

 

[Greebley]

We want to slow growth I believe. Getting the Granary and growing on the same turn does not work.

I think going for Phil first will be ok. Especially as we can trade writing and Phil (I don't think we should trade Lit - the GLib is too important).

I think I would be inclined to have our second city immediately start working on the GLib upon settling.

Building a boat may be worth while. One nice thing is that boats can see a border while one away and so not meet a civ via borders (wandering troops though can be met). It would save our warrior from needing to explore the southern coast and would find potential crossing spots. With the Great Lib, suicide galleys work pretty well. The AI can't get to you, but you keep them at war and get their techs. They are better to meet than your neighbors.

If we have a single neighbor, I would be inclined toward a sword rush to damage them early. At Monarch we can win a 1 on 1 fight. With limited support and income it would be nice to deal with a civ early

 

[Melifluous]

Oh and Betazed?

You're up

Melifluous

Roster as per the first post.

Meli - Just Played.
Betazed - UP NOW
Aggie - On Deck
Greebley
Corrado
Jack Merchant
Kuningas

 

[betazed]

Ok. Will play tonight. (Will play 9 turns to even out the date).

I will probably be able to create a settler. Where should I send him? To the spot south of the silks?

 

[Melifluous]

Good point Greebley on the granary production,
I was a little keen there.

Betazed, I was thinking of the hill just east of where you were saying. I think the silk spot maybe a little to far away. But what the hey, its your turn, do what you like mate.

Also I cant stress enough how important it is to get 4 more cities down quick and producing troops.

I think that after 4 settlers (and maybe troops between) then Amsterdam should just switch to TGL, new cities will NEED to produce their own troops ASAP.

As for city sites...

1) Near the silks, anywhere around here really.
2) On a Hill two squares NE of the Gold Hill.
3) One square west of the Cow?
4) Somewhere to the East of Amsterdam.

Just my two cents

Melifluous.

 

[jack merchant]

I'd prefer the second city on the river to the NW, either on the river bend or the hill next to it. Alternatively, place one city on the plains tile 4NW 1N tiles of Amsterdam so we have space for another one on the river bend to the South without too much overlap for plenty of commerce and getting a bunch of hills within our borders too (defending it might be a pain though - the city on the hill next to the river would be better). Space fairly widely, absolutely allow each city 17-18 tiles at least.

And something I've been wondering about - what union exactly ain't there no leaving ?

 

[Corrado]

Okay, here's my suggested dotmap.



The red mark our best starting city, IMO; again, plenty of commerce, food, and production to be had out there. I prefer the circle- it'll be a much more productive city, even if it doesn't grow as fast as the square does.

The blue mark another good site, but one unexplored. That's flood plains up there, which means plenty of food, a river for commerce and food bonus, and smack-dab in those hills means we can expect Iron and production. The circle is pretty solid but possibly low-growth, depending upon how much more flood plain there is; the square potentially has more growth, but we won't know until we really explore those areas.

The green circle is the best spot for the cow- no overlap with Amsterdam, coastal for the free commerce, and with a good mix of grass and forest.

Again, I'm favoring a very spread-out layout so that we can hopefully cover more resources in our eventual civ radius, and so that our (few) cities can crank out the most production without hampering each other. The disadvantage is that mutual defense is hard to do.

 

[betazed]

Ok. Red looks good to me. I will send a settler there.

I am not sure about the blue and the green without knowing a liitle more of the map. When we know that we can make a more informed judgement.

 

[Greebley]

Betazed,

Play a full 10. The reason to play 21 is to end on 3000 which makes later years work out better. Eventually, you end up on 1300 instead of 1295 for example.

Lets see if I can do it by memory:
3000
2550
2150
1750
1500
1250
1000
750
550
350
150 for the BC years.

Also am I being blind? I am not seeing a link to the 3000BC save.

If it exists tell me where (otherwise post it )

 

[betazed]

Greebley's right. I wanted to play but where is the save?

 

[Greebley]

I checked the uploads to see if I could find it, but I don't think it is there. You will have to wait for Meli to post it.