Military Tactics T94-T120

[Kaleb]

Thing is though, are we going to culture bomb or not? If we are, we actually want SAN to get the city. But of course we don't want them to realise this or they will be the ones wanting to raze the city themselves.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Kaleb culture bombing will not get the city to flip, our settling point is too far for that.

 

[cav scout]

Assuming we win Music (safe assumption if we decide to go for it), what would we have to do to sucessfully culture bomb? How confident are you we can get it to flip?

edit- crosspost with Indiansmoke

 

[donsig]

I would not plan on getting Angle by flipping. I think we'd be better off using a Great Artist in Angle (or whatever city we build as a replacement). I still think our goal now should be to try to raze Angle.

 

[Kaleb]

Kaleb culture bombing will not get the city to flip, our settling point is too far for that.

Eeeh, a culture bomb gives a culture radius of 4 tiles, not 5 right? It's been ages since I last culture bombed. 1 tile closer and we could flip it though.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Yea 4 tiles...and anyway human cities do not culture flip easily when you are at war...I never seen it happen..basically you need to plant city and bomb 3 tiles from enemy city so your culture surounds it and you might have a chance..but still it might not happen.

So it is not a real possibility.

 

[damnrunner]

A cult bomb would not flip the city but it would make it a lot easier to take it. We would have great visibility - would not need as much fog busting - and could move within our own borders until we were very close to teh city.

However - if we already plan on capturing the city it would be better to culture bomb Angle itself.

Either way - going for music at some point makes sense. Once we have the GA we can decide when and how to use it.

We should talk to MS and Cav about this and let them know it is our plan to get music after we get Machinery. Would suck if they go for it and we get in an argument later.

 

[cav scout]

I think we should move our two northern axes west to the forested plains hill SW of the barb city. We can get there in 5 turns if we skirt outside of SANCTA view. This would put is in a position to raze the city, even if SANCTA captures it first. We would have 2 chariots in the area to support as well.

 

[damnrunner]

@ CavScout - If they have chariots on the way we would be vulnerable to them if we try to go around.

I think we move the axes and chariot like this

Axe 1 - NW, NW, hold, NW (this is the tile one south of Angle)
Axe 2 - NW, NW, NW, N (this is the tile one south of Angle)
Chariot NE-SW, repeat.

As we move up the axes we are near forests so the chariot will be able to see if the axes are vulnerable to an attack from a Sancta chariot. We are also able to see if Sancta has moved up any additional units that may require us to fall back.

Sancta can attack us - but if they win we can kill their wounded axe with the chariot or with the 2nd axe. We end up in the tile one south of Angle. Our axes are vulnerable but Sancta would have to attack across a river to hurt us. And our chariot is in position to kill them if they do.

We could also modify this to end up on the forest hill SW of Angle - but I suspect Sancta will move their axe up top cover that tile.

If we take Angle our axes will likely be killed the next turn - the question is is that worth it? If not then we should fortify on teh hill where we want our future city to be.

 

[cav scout]

Damnrunner you misunderstood the direction I want to take. I was too vague explaining it so I have attached a diagram.

My proposed route is in yellow. Yours are in red. The pink circles indicate when we would become visible to SANCTA. The peach X's indicate where SANCTA has units now.

If you look at the routes you will see mine is safer from attack and it keeps our units together. If the forested hill is occupied by 1 axe we use our chariots to clear it and then occupy with our axes. We don't want to receive a SANCTA attack unless its on defensible terrain. Our objective is the barb city.

About SANCTA: The forest where they currently have 2 axes is a great position for them. They will continue to hold it. They will probably reoccupy the forested hill SW of the barb city once the barb axe is gone.

My guess is that they don't have chariots on the way. SANCTA seems to have an axe heavy army. Up to this point they have only seen chariots from us (3 of em). I think they will try to correct their spear shortfall by producing/sending spears next. Then once they get HBR they will make horse archers. Even if they do have chariots arriving in the next 5 turns ours can keep them away from the axes.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Silly SANCTA... The barb's cities have slavery (bronze working)... see the pretty barb Axe?... Angle will slave, slave, slave, as long as they (SANCTA) are near, and it will never grow to size 2. (Well I guess barbs move last so... maybe... who knows?) So if im wrong... sorry. Anyway...

We should move the chariot SE and then E towards the Axes while moving the Axes NE towards the unexposed tiles. That way, we can build a small force to:
1. See reinforcements coming
2. Prevent SANCTA from reinforcing the battle for Angle
3. Possibly discover SANCTA's western border.

We can attack any spears that SANCTA sends with our Axes while killing Axes they send with our chariot. Wustoff and Zustoff (or whatever the names are) will be cut-off from help. That way, even if they take the city, our reinforcement chariots will kill them off.

If you look at the routes you will see mine is safer from attack and it keeps our units together.

I agree/ think that keeping our units together is the best way to go.

My guess is that they don't have chariots on the way. SANCTA seems to have an axe heavy army. Up to this point they have only seen chariots from us (3 of em). I think they will try to correct their spear shortfall by producing/sending spears next.

Yes, and all the more reason to try to take a wide berth around Angle with our Axes, keep them out of view, and try to cut the SANCTA spears off with our Axes.

I dont want to put any of our units at risk. Our best chance to do accomplish anything is to build up at least a small stack/ strike-force. SANCTA's border could be two tiles East of the the Barb city (hidden by fog). We really have no idea how quickly they can re-supply their lines.

We need a Spy in the Center quickly. We should build one next.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I suggest we keep our axes and wait for more units to make a single stack.

A force of 3-4 axes a couple of spears or a spear and a sword and 3 chariots should be enough to cuase Sancta some grief.

We are not far from this force...lets show some patience.

The barb city is surounded by forest, it will be easy to choke them..lets not waste single units.

 

[Kaleb]

I am hesitant to send a force north without a spear. Having a small stack of 2-3 Chariots, 2-3 Axes and a Spear will be enough, how about a Catapult for good measure. We're nearly there but not quite. I would also like to get a Spy out ASAP so we can know what we are up against and reduce the risk factor.

So where should we build a spy? Oskemen is quickest option but that means we don't make use of the Barracks. I don't think we want a Sword in Oskemen - they are only really useful for attacking cities at the moment...

 

[Indiansmoke]

A spy can come from iron city, we might even use the chop!

A sword is great Kaleb, better than a spear right now. It can defend against chariots and can defend against axes when in forest which a spear cannot..and can attack the city with better chances.

Since the area is full of forests I suggest we build at least 1 sword to go with the stack.

 

[Kaleb]

@ Cav scout..Sancta do not need to read our letter to realize we are weak and they can strike...they can read the demographics and they already know we are weak.

the question is what exactly do we want to do? Because at the momment we are just reacting mechanically, marching solo axes to that barb city.

We have 2 options as I see it.

1. make peace with them capitalize on our tech advantage and builld up a superior army and go after them in 40-50 turns from now.

2. Build an army and take our chances right now.

If we go for option 2 we must wait for a better mix of force to march towards the city...a mix of 3 axes 3 chariots and a couple of spears should be enough to cause them trouble and we are not far from this force. We must show some patience.

If we go for option 1 then that will give us the time to involve Cavaleiros as well. With our combined tech we can easily have rifles in 50 turns. We will be behind in land and cities but with rifles that will change.

So lets think about these options before we decide whether to sen a note to Sancta or not.

If we go for option 1 we are giving them 40-50 turns to develop Angle. I would prefer we made a push now, took Angle or razed it and settle nearby. Then sat in defence until we have a bigger tech lead and can get reinforcements from Cav - and then go on the offense.

We should have Feudalism by turn 102 so we could aim to get Angle/Settle nearby once we have the GA and a couple of Longbows. We should be able to build another settler + 2 longbows and have the GA by Turn 110ish.

This is where we can make the land work to our advantage. We can easily bottle a sea advance with a couple of Triremes and a culture bomb in the valley will make any progress of theirs very slow. The visibility gain from a bomb on the Angle spot will also be much better than on our proposed city7 spot.

If we can get Ivory from MS then we can build Elephants to make a mess of any HA/Axe stacks they send to us.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Only problem is that Sancta will also have feudalism and guess what...they will be switching to vassalage!!

 

[cav scout]

Well we can wait like you guys want and build a stack with Axes, spears, chariots, a sword, a spy... meanwhile SANCTA has captured the barb city, healed their axes and sent in reinforcements. So by the time our stack starts marching it's already obsolete and the opportunity to raze the barb city is long gone.

We just might be able to do something with our two axes and chariots now. If not we fall back, preserving out combat power.

 

[Kaleb]

If only we had a spy already! We'd know what we are up against

Next turn we should move chariot N then - if clear.- go W to the hill to see Angle.

And yes, I was wondering why SAN haven't already switched to HR. They don't want slavery so when they get feud they will switch to HR and Vassal.

 

[donsig]

Waiting does not seem to be a good idea. As for the proposed routes towards Angle why are the only suggestions approaching it from the west? Why aren't we considering taking the shorter route through the wheat field and up through the forests on the east side of Angle?

EDIT: Is Sommers' theory valid about Angle slaving and not growing? If Angle isn't going to grow then we have more time.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Bahhh...never mind