Military Tactics T94-T120

[Indiansmoke]

yes there is, we just need to sail further up the coast

No there is not

 

[Kaleb]

the tile 2 NE of our Trireme (or 2E of Phoenix) will block any advance

 

[Indiansmoke]

the tile 2 NE of our Trireme (or 2E of Phoenix) will block any advance

N of the city?

and leave the city free? to build tririme and galley and send to it our capital? while we hapilly block the empty seas?

 

[damnrunner]

@Damrunner...as I said before when their borders pop their ships would be able to move through ocean tiles within cultural borders...so there is no single tile we can block.

Their borders will have to pop 2 times. With one border pop a ship sitting on the fish directly east of our lookout warrior will block all them from moving south. Yes they would still have access to the tile that the warrior is currently sitting on though. However even just a single archer on that hill would serve as a major deterrent for an amphibious attack.

I do think we should try to raze the city, but that should be a focus after we have begun an attack in the valley.

If we are not able to take the city - when it gets a second border pop then sancta could very easily sail into our lands. But by that time we should be able to build caravels and could easily neutralize any naval threat.

What I see happening is we sail to try and take the city, sancta moves up defense. We sail back and are right where we started having built units that could have been better used else where.

Also as I mentioned before - the city is costing sancta $ which slows their research.

It seems I am the minority on this - so if we do go through with trying to take th city keep in mind what our follow up is if they move up defense.

 

[Indiansmoke]

The city will become profitable very quickly...just the 2 trade routes almost equalize the expenses. Letting the city exist so that it costs them 2 gold makes no sense at all..tririmes, units workers and settlers will come out of that city.

Now yes they they will propably cover the city..but propably..we should take the chance with one warrior no matter how small it is....it is just 1 warrior...nothing major.

Now regarding the fish spot for block point as you said it leaves them the hill free to land..... So you want to get an archer to fortyfy that hill, but you are not prepared to have a warrior sail with the galley...

 

[damnrunner]

It only costs 2 gold? I would imagine more as it is far form their capitol. If that is the case I stand corrected on that point.

My point was not to build the galley at all. But if it is being built then yes it does make sense to load up the warrior. Right now it serves no purpose as its "lookout" role is being covered by the Trireme anyway.

Good point on the trade routes. As we go forward getting ships to blockade Sancta cities would be a good thought. Caravels will be especially useful for this.

 

[damnrunner]

Some thoughts on what sort of an army we can build in the next few turns. It takes 3-5 turns for our units to even make it to the front line from our current cities so I am estimating how many units we can have at the front over the next 5 and 10 turns. Since I can’t run tests these are pretty speculative.

Pav - 5 turns to the front. 1 catapult and one more catapult
Atyran – 4 turns to the front. 1 catapult and one xbow.
Shym – 3 turns to the front. 1 catapult, one xbow, one more catapult (heavy whipping)
Osk - 3 turns to the front. 2 maces
Aktau – 4 turns to the front (2 if x2 movement units). Horse archer, 2 elephants, left over chariot

If this works out, in 5 turns we will have an additional: 2 catapults, 1 mace, 1 xbow, 1 elephant, 1 Horse archer
I think our current stack of units in the valley (once upgraded) and these additional units will be sufficient to take on Zero. We might also consider attacking earlier as they get the 20% culture pop defense bonus in 5 turns.

After 10 turns we should have an additional: 3 catapults, 1 mace, 1 elephant, 1 chariot, and 1 xbow. If we move towards the former barb city we should be able to get there in 13 turns. Of course a contingent of well defended catapults could move up earlier to start bombarding the city.

We should think what we want to do if they chop walls in either of the cities.

 

[Indiansmoke]

It only costs 2 gold? I would imagine more as it is far form their capitol. If that is the case I stand corrected on that point.

My point was not to build the galley at all. But if it is being built then yes it does make sense to load up the warrior. Right now it serves no purpose as its "lookout" role is being covered by the Trireme anyway.

Good point on the trade routes. As we go forward getting ships to blockade Sancta cities would be a good thought. Caravels will be especially useful for this.

It costs more than 2 gold, but if you take into account 2 trade routes and minimum 1 commerce from the city tile then they pay about 2 gold a turn for that city.

BTW Caravels cannot blockate trade routes.

 

[damnrunner]

BTW Caravels cannot blockate trade routes.

I recall that they could deny cities from working ocean tiles - I assumed that meant they could blockade as well. Thanks for the clarification.

Anyhow - down the line blocakding trade routes would be a good means to mess with the Sancta economy.

 

[Kaleb]

Thought I'd repost this from the Cav thread:

By the end of our next turn we can whip 3 Catapults a Mace and finish a HA. Plus we'll have enough gold to upgrade an Axe to a Mace. By the time we get our chariots and the WE to the front we'll have enough gold to upgrade our other 2 axes and the sword.

So in 5 turns (ie on T114) we can have the following stack on Taraz or the forest next to Taraz:

4 Catapults
1 WE
5 Maces
2 HAs
2 Chariots
1 Spear
1 Crossbow

So we can be attacking SANCTA with this stack on T118 if we go direct for TKY

 

[Indiansmoke]

Thought I'd repost this from the Cav thread:

sounds good...we need to make sure we have 2 workers available to road as well...and if given the opportunity we should road when we have 2 maces and put them in the forest next to sancta city.

 

[Kaleb]

How much will it cost exactly to upgrade our 3 axes and the sword?

we have 88 now and (after the whips) will generate about 70 more next turn. Cav have 140 gold and MS 29. Definitely better to get the money from MS and they can probably generate about 50-60 gold next turn.

So how much more money do we need from Cav? So if MS go 0% for 2 turns, give the money to us, and we go 0% for 2 turns we can get a total of about 380 by T111

 

[Indiansmoke]

For the 5th time Axe is 125 gold and sword is 110..so we will need 485

Basically first step is to road and move 2 maces in the forest. To do that we will need to have 3 maces in the forest when we road, so one mace the chariot and a spear can cover our workers.

This needs to happen before Sancta borders pop...so we have 4 turns

 

[Kaleb]

Sorry I was being lazy. So another 100 gold neede - do we ask Cav for this? We can repay them after upgrade so they can get paper quicker.

 

[damnrunner]

How do we think Sancta will react when we attack.

Abandon the city and fall back, stay in the city and hope to kill/wound some of our units, or attack south and try to cause trouble. I am a bit concerned about them attacking south - if they do, will we have enough defenses to stop them from threatening our city?

 

[Kaleb]

For the 5th time Axe is 125 gold and sword is 110..so we will need 485

Basically first step is to road and move 2 maces in the forest. To do that we will need to have 3 maces in the forest when we road, so one mace the chariot and a spear can cover our workers.

This needs to happen before Sancta borders pop...so we have 4 turns

Our borders will pop before SANCTA's (we built that monument remember ) so that spot will be in our culture not theirs.

Spoiler :

SANCTA have occupied that forest, so what now? I think we just need to march NE from the forest (which will be chopped this turn coming). That will put pressure on both the forest and the city. Zuurstof has a strength of 10 on the forest with first strikes and whatever fortification bonus he has. A Combat I Mace will attack with 12.8 strength so we should be able to kill him ok.

It will be great to get some shock promoted HAs to start roaming into SANCTA lands whilst they still haven't built any WEs. They'll only be able to kill them with promoted Spears.

And what do we do with our spy?

 

[damnrunner]

I think we are better off ignoring Zuurstof. Yes we have a decent chance of killing him - but why risk it. He can't attack us and can't stop us from our main target - Sancta cities.

I think we may want to enter santca lands with the spy. We may risk losing it but being able to see what units/cities they have would be useful.

 

[donsig]

Shouldn't we hold off on sending the spy into SANCTA territory until we're a bit closer to launching our attack?

 

[Sommerswerd]

We need another spy. Surely SANCTA is spying on us by now. We really need a few spies. I think our spies can take peeks at their land and then bounce back out without too much danger.

 

[damnrunner]

What to do around Taraz? The problem with killing their chariot is that it would force us to split our forces. Especially problematic as Sancta has a lot of options to attack after building a quick 1 turn road with those two workers.

I'd also like to move our stack 1 N and begin a road. But this would force us to split our forces even more and I think will have to wait until we upgraded at least 2 more maces.


I suspect Sancta chopped a wall in Zero. So we should be prepared for that. They also could have done a monument so that they can push put more culture than we are.