Military Tactics T94-T120

[damnrunner]

I think upgrading like that would be potentially very useful. Of course we have to do it before sancta gets construction and has enough time to move catapults to the front line. Also if it does work we will want to follow up very soon thereafter with a culture bomb in Angle. If we really start rolling Sancta we can offer some of the god from captured cities to our allies.

My thoughts:
Should we add a few xbows into the mix. Maces are great but xbows are just as good against axes. We can use some of our less productive cities to build a few archers which could be upgraded to xbows.

Elephants - I'd like having them - but we can't use gold to upgrade to them. We may be better off building two axes instead and upgrading them both.

Do we still want to build a stable in Aktau if we do this. We may be better off building catapults/axes. If the plan is for a fairly quick war, the stable will have negligible benefit since the city will not remain a military production city for long. One counter argument would be that having x2 promoted units would let us have a sentry and health promoted unit in our stack - which would be pretty useful (but not necessary) additions.

What to do with Haz. If we really want to go all out on this we may want to build a few more units in Haz instead. Another option would be to build a market - giving us a lot more gold for upgrading later our units when the time comes.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Upgrading 6 units is a one off thing that can help capture angle. we cannot keep upgrading, things have to go back to normal production and we will need 2 promo elephants, yes some crossbows and more maces...because we will have to defend angle, which will not be easy...in fact it is more propable that we will have to raise it than keep it, but we will see about that.

 

[Kaleb]

It's such a nice city though - if we do raze it we should found a city on a hill near the same spot. this will mean having a settler ready to go soon!

And it's only 4 turns to Machinery if we get 100 from Cav. We're not going to be able to build many units in that time (I think we can have 2-3 Cats from Shymkent and Atyrau, forge in Oskemen, Stable and HA in Aktau and maybe another unit in Pavlodar - how about a Spy there next?)

So we have 3 Axes and a Sword to upgrade. How much money will we need to upgrade them?

 

[Indiansmoke]

If we want we can get more units...switch to sword in Oskemen and chop a catapult in front city.

Oskemen can get 2 swords in 4 turns if we want.

the question is are going to have that much cash? We need to present the plan to Cavaleiros and MS and ask for cash now.

 

[Bolkonski]

We need to present the plan to Cavaleiros and MS and ask for cash now.

I agree. I think we should also talk to Cav and MS about having Saturn join us. Saturn might well be impressed if we manage to take Angle and it might encourage them to join; they would not see SACTA as being so powerful.

Also, because of it is geographical situation Cav and MS may well require that we raze Angle; it may be that it would be in our best interests to do that anyway.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Updated mace upgrade rush plan.

we now have 3 axes a cata a chariot and a sword in the front.

In 3 turns we can have 2 swords in 3 turns from Oskemen (sword 1 turn, 2 pop whip, sword next turn).

We can also whip a cata in 2 turns from Shykment when it grows. and have the chariot from actau with whip overflow from stable

So in 3 turns from now we can have 3 axe, 3 sword 2 cata and 2 char.

We finish machinery in 3 and go 0% for 5 turns...that is 300 gold...we need another 405 from allies to upgrade our 6 melee units to mace.

meanwhile we can have another 2 catas, 2 crossbows a HA and 2 elephants (if we get ivory otherwise HA)

so total 6 mace, 4 cata 2 cross, 1HA, 2 ele and 2 char.

It should be enough to take angle if they don't have more than 1 cata and one ele there...even if we see that they can hold we can choke them using the forests.

That is all in 8 turns from now....

meanwhile we can make a HA stack to go hit the west city that are spy found, while they are occupied with angle, and make 2 maces and a galley in capital to go land in their coastal city..

 

[damnrunner]

Updated mace upgrade rush plan.

we now have 3 axes a cata a chariot and a sword in the front.

In 3 turns we can have 2 swords in 3 turns from Oskemen (sword 1 turn, 2 pop whip, sword next turn).

We can also whip a cata in 2 turns from Shykment when it grows. and have the chariot from actau with whip overflow from stable

So in 3 turns from now we can have 3 axe, 3 sword 2 cata and 2 char.

We finish machinery in 3 and go 0% for 5 turns...that is 300 gold...we need another 405 from allies to upgrade our 6 melee units to mace.

meanwhile we can have another 2 catas, 2 crossbows a HA and 2 elephants (if we get ivory otherwise HA)

so total 6 mace, 4 cata 2 cross, 1HA, 2 ele and 2 char.

It should be enough to take angle if they don't have more than 1 cata and one ele there...even if we see that they can hold we can choke them using the forests.

That is all in 8 turns from now....

meanwhile we can make a HA stack to go hit the west city that are spy found, while they are occupied with angle, and make 2 maces and a galley in capital to go land in their coastal city..

I like the plans indian.

We should ask Team Cav to send their chariot exploring around the back of Angle - that way we can get a better idea of what reinforcements they are sending up.

If our allies are not willing to help I think we should still go for it. We can build a market in Haz and after 10 turns running 0% science (rather than 5) we will have about the same amount of gold. We can use that time to build a few more units but should mainly focus on catapults. We don't know how far sancta is from Construction - but either way they will not have many elephants or catapults.

 

[cav scout]

We need to really pressure CAV and MS to get in this fight with us. They need to start sending units and give us cash now. We should send a firm message that we need their help now. If they don't then we need to reevaluate the TTA.

 

[Sommerswerd]

We need to really pressure CAV and MS to get in this fight with us. They need to start sending units and give us cash now. We should send a firm message that we need their help now. If they don't then we need to reevaluate the TTA.

I Agree, especially about the last part.

 

[donsig]

I don't think re-evaluating the TTA is such a great idea. We've got a couple good allies right now and the three of us can out research S&S. We need to be patient. Rather than antagonizing Team Cav we ought to be getting back to them about their treaty proposal. Might be a good time to ask them how their balance of power idea would be activated since they are growing and we are not (due to the war).

 

[damnrunner]

If they don't give us help we will all reevaluate the TTA in so much as we will not expect to get military help from it.
But we can still expect to get tech from it and it will still serve our purposes best as we go forward.

 

[Indiansmoke]

I don't think re-evaluating the TTA is such a great idea. We've got a couple good allies right now and the three of us can out research S&S. We need to be patient. Rather than antagonizing Team Cav we ought to be getting back to them about their treaty proposal. Might be a good time to ask them how their balance of power idea would be activated since they are growing and we are not (due to the war).

Donsig, get back to them about the treaty proposal? I am sure you realize now how silly the 20.000 free beackers that they were asking for were.

Instead of blaming us all the time for not replying to the treaty I suggest you have a chat with your buddy Niclas and tell him how silly their proposal was, and that if there is someone to blame for delaying this treaty it is them not us!

They have also not officially replied to our request for military help....they said in a chat that they could send gold but nothing official...all we got is a letter from morgan telling us that the Sancta threat is increasing and that we need to hold on!

 

[Kaleb]

I told Niklas ages ago that the 20,000 beakers thing was pointless as we'd get stuck in war with SANCTA no doubt.

Cav have built up their gold reserves and are running their tech at 0% generating about 60 per turn. they've given us the gold we needed this turn as requested.

 

[donsig]

Donsig, get back to them about the treaty proposal? I am sure you realize now how silly the 20.000 free beackers that they were asking for were.

Instead of blaming us all the time for not replying to the treaty I suggest you have a chat with your buddy Niclas and tell him how silly their proposal was, and that if there is someone to blame for delaying this treaty it is them not us!

They have also not officially replied to our request for military help....they said in a chat that they could send gold but nothing official...all we got is a letter from morgan telling us that the Sancta threat is increasing and that we need to hold on!

Their proposal was no more silly than our demands to be compensated for excess beakers. Yes, the number they came up with was way off base but their reasoning was sound given our reasoning. In any case, they sent a proposal and we never even replied to it. There are many things we could have said, like:

• No, thanks.
• Here's a counter proposal.

But we haven't said anything about it. The really funny thing is, those of you who have always blasted and rejected Team Cav's idea of a share and share alike alliance are also the ones complaining most that Team Cav isn't rushing to our aid. To bring back the marriage analogy, Team Cav proposed to us, we didn't answer and now we're mad cause they won't sleep with us.

And we tend to ignore what they (and MS) are doing. They are living up to the TTA and we're out teching S&S. Once we have paper and maps we may even get ivory from MS. Team Cav is sending us gold. Don't forget these things guys and don't take them for granted.

We do not have to accept Team Cav's treaty proposal. We can modify it and send it back as a counter proposal. Or at the very least we can tell them we're not interested in an alliance with-in an alliance.

 

[Indiansmoke]

EDIT: OK can we send the original proposal without the 20.000 beackers then?

That was the first thing we said to do, but you refused to send it because you said they would not accept it....now that it is obvious how irrational it was can we send it like that?

Also...they are not helping us they are helping themselves...us at war with Sancta is good for them....

 

[donsig]

EDIT: OK can we send the original proposal without the 20.000 beackers then?

That was the first thing we said to do, but you refused to send it because you said they would not accept it....now that it is obvious how irrational it was can we send it like that?

Also...they are not helping us they are helping themselves...us at war with Sancta is good for them....

Well, I probably asked this before, but when you suggest sending the treaty back without the 20,000 beaker clause are you also suggesting we drop the clause about being compensated for excess beakers? Dropping the discount without dropping our demands for excess beaker compensation is ridiculous. Now that it's more likely we won't be out teching Team Cav to a great extent are we ready to agree to share techs regardless of how many beakers are involved in the trades?

I understand the current political situation. My two points were:

1. We refused Team Cav's We-Help-Each-Other-No-Matter-What-The-Cost alliance offer and so we cannot now complain that they do what is in their best interest rather than what would be best for the secret alliance within an alliance that we rejected.
2. Team Cav and MS are helping us by sharing tech and gold (at least on Team Cav's part). The could be taking the approach we took in the past and argue for equal tech contributions - something we'd be hard pressed to do while stopping research for some turns. It could also be worse if they decided to dog pile us.

 

[Kaleb]

Any chance we can discuss the diplomacy bits in another thread?

Btw Cav gave us another 30 so we have enough to continue at 80% and get Machinery in 2 turns.

Regarding Military SANCTA's soldiers increased 3000 (mainly from pop, no units) and no tech.

They moved their 3 chariots SW,SW:

Spoiler :

Only kidding, why would they do a silly thing like that?

What they have done is brought 2 spearmen down and another axe and... a settler



Maybe that monument wasn't such a bad idea...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Just curious, Why has there been no discussion of building a wall in Taraz? Since SANCTA does not have construction yet, a wall would make the city virtually impregnable. Maybe monument, or granary would be better, but I'm just not clear why... Smoke? You are ususaly the best at explaining such things.

 

[Kaleb]

I very rarely build walls. if the enemy is close enough to attack one of my cities I've done something wrong...

 

[Sommerswerd]

I very rarely build walls. if the enemy is close enough to attack one of my cities I've done something wrong...

Well it seems that SANCTA is close enough to attack Taraz... So maybe weve done something wrong... maybe not. But it still seems to me that we need a wall there. That Axe/Spear army is on the way. What are we going to do against it witout Elephants and Maces?