First of all, let me say that I agree that there are some genuinely serious situations where men are discriminated against. The "other stuff" you listed is by far the most serious. However, on point 1, the reason why a lot of "politically correct" men won't even entertain the notion is that the vast, vast majority of complaints about sexism against men are completely juvenile and myopic, and are indeed trivialising actual, real discrimination. I therefore assume that people who complain about "discrimination against men" are middle-class suburban white kids, because they are almost always middle-class suburban white kids who know literally nothing about real, actual discrimination.
Now, the lesson for me is that, if you want to draw attention to real problems that men face, particularly in custody and child-raising, then you MUST absolutely tear apart and dismiss any of those other relatively harmless instances where men are treated e.g. as idiots who can't cook, or whatever other insulting stereotype ad producers shove down our throats to promote their products (I assume you saw that Charlie Brooker then? EDIT: I see you have seen it. Serves me right for not reading the thread ). Otherwise, you completely undermine the case against the more serious instances of discrimination that are enshrined in legal statute.
tl;dr - pick your battles.
This a hundred times. I'd furthermore add that it's OK because nobody seriously believes that men are the inferior sex - there are still people who think that of women. The double standard becomes a little more acceptable from that.
This is very true, most feminists are misandrists.
My problem has been more so with the fanatical feminists (while they are a stereotype, the unfortunate thing is that they do exist) who 1) claim that women are the absolute equal of men
See Ralph, this is why people object to your points. One second it's grumbling about media portrayal, and the next it's belittling the idea of female equality.
See Ralph, this is why people object to your points. One second it's grumbling about media portrayal, and the next it's belittling the idea of female equality.
First of all, let me say that I agree that there are some genuinely serious situations where men are discriminated against. The "other stuff" you listed is by far the most serious. However, on point 1, the reason why a lot of "politically correct" men won't even entertain the notion is that the vast, vast majority of complaints about sexism against men are completely juvenile and myopic, and are indeed trivialising actual, real discrimination. I therefore assume that people who complain about "discrimination against men" are middle-class suburban white kids, because they are almost always middle-class suburban white kids who know literally nothing about real, actual discrimination.
Now, the lesson for me is that, if you want to draw attention to real problems that men face, particularly in custody and child-raising, then you MUST absolutely tear apart and dismiss any of those other relatively harmless instances where men are treated e.g. as idiots who can't cook, or whatever other insulting stereotype ad producers shove down our throats to promote their products (I assume you saw that Charlie Brooker then? EDIT: I see you have seen it. Serves me right for not reading the thread ). Otherwise, you completely undermine the case against the more serious instances of discrimination that are enshrined in legal statute.
tl;dr - pick your battles.
This is very true, most feminists are misandrists.
This a hundred times. I'd furthermore add that it's OK because nobody seriously believes that men are the inferior sex - there are still people who think that of women. The double standard becomes a little more acceptable from that.
Equality for men doesn't exclude equality for women. It's not that we have to choose, whose situation is improved, both can be, and both must be.
In a courtroom, I can get away with antics that a woman lawyer can't and she has ways to persuade that I don't. Those are the breaks. Men are not in any danger of suffering the inequality that women have traditionally suffered.
Seems that some people have been thinking too much during their bubblebaths.
Well yeah, you can have a good cry over it, but it doesn't really make it all that significant in my book.So what??? It's irrelevant. Just because the discrimiation we suffer isn't the same as women's doesn't make it something to dismiss.
If men had to give birth we would have invented machines to do it for us years ago.
2. Jokes about men getting hurt or bellitled are extremely commonplace on TV and in advertising, and no one gives two fiddlestickses about it. Jokes about men being raped are commonplace (don't drop the soap, ha ha), men being kicked in the balls is a comedy staple (don't see many 'jokes' about women being hoofed in the fanny for some reason) and have you ever noticed that while women tend to be sexually objectified in advertising, men tend to be belittled? Men can't work the washing machine, men can't cope with minding the kids, any time an ad centres around one half of a couple 'getting one over' the other, it's invariably the wife who bests the husband. Family Guy is one of the few shows that treats men and women equally appallingly in this respect and I applaud it.
3. While I do believe there is more pressure on women vis-a-vis appearance, there is similar pressure on men and no one takes it seriously. Why is there no recognition that it's just as bad for a 14 YO girl to feel like crap because she doesn't look like Katy Perry as it is for a 14 YO boy to feel like crap because he doesn't look like Usher (or whoever)? Why is objectification of men especially accepted when its in the gay community? Why are oiled-up beefcakes acceptable when it's gay guys leering at them but oiled-up cheerleaders being leered at something 'distasteful'?
Just a note that it's important to view gender essentialism holistically. It hurts men too. This isn't news to feminism.