Mongol Terror

[Carl5872]

I wanted people's general opinions on how to use the half of Mongol Terror that involves the 30% bonus against city states. Im playing a game with them now, and I took over one city state, but Im pretty sure that if I DOW another a gropu will war against me. Should I be fine with this and just take over that small group?

I currently only allied one cultural one and am roughly in the medieval techs. Any strategies on how to use them effectively regarding the city state bonus?

 

[Bungle]

Taking out City States generally isn't a good idea unless one of the AIs has way too much money and likes giving it to the City States.

If you want to take out City States with minimal diplo hit: declare war on other civs or let other civs declare on you, then conquer their CS allies. You will still get some warmonger hate from other civs but no permanent war with City States.

 

[Deau]

As Bungle pointed, trick to avoid perma wars is to get the DoW through a war to a player. The diplo hit for complete wipe of CS will still bring you to the point of having only guarded/hostile/affraid AIs on the map with you though. This is why people play mongols for keshiks/khans and completely disregard this half of the UA.

 

[jagwade]

Attacking City States is generally not a good idea unless they have something you really need or if they are an ally of your enemy. I used to conquer City States for the land early in the game but as you rise above Prince level, the Ai's will not forgive you for attacking the City States and eventually you will be at war with at least half of the world. But hey, if you have the strength and tech to conquer the world - go for it

 

[kamex]

Taking out City States generally isn't a good idea unless one of the AIs has way too much money and likes giving it to the City States.

If you want to take out City States with minimal diplo hit: declare war on other civs or let other civs declare on you, then conquer their CS allies. You will still get some warmonger hate from other civs but no permanent war with City States.

Agreed. I'd like to add, that it might be a good idea to attack them if Alex is on the map, as he often buys them all and holds them with his silly UA and rushes diplo victory. And on the higher levels, he has enough gold that you can't outbid him

 

[duxup]

Funny thing about "Mongol Terror" is that I rarely see the Mongol AI go after city states. Not that it makes him any easier to deal with. He is always a tough cookie for me.

 

[joncnunn]

The second to last most recent time the Mongols were in my game, they did go after city states and captured a few.

In the most recent time, they didn't (at least that I'm aware of because they started on the other continent)

And I've seen non Mongol civs go after city states as well; had a game where Russia, China, and France all went after city states.

As to how to use Mongol Terror; I would suggest only using it against a city state that got forced to DOW you because of a war your having with their ally. Usually even military city states are on balance more useful to your empire if bribed with cash than forcibly absorbed thru your military.

Funny thing about "Mongol Terror" is that I rarely see the Mongol AI go after city states. Not that it makes him any easier to deal with. He is always a tough cookie for me.

 

[Exterminas]

Mongolia's main perk seems to be the Khan's healing ability, I would not make Mongol Terror as play-style-commanding as other abilities, like the Iroquis-one.

 

[Carl5872]

As Bungle pointed, trick to avoid perma wars is to get the DoW through a war to a player. The diplo hit for complete wipe of CS will still bring you to the point of having only guarded/hostile/affraid AIs on the map with you though. This is why people play mongols for keshiks/khans and completely disregard this half of the UA.

Well the current game I'm in everyone is mostly guarded against me for warmongering, and one even is hostile. Since I cant think of a way to win them back to friendly, (and please share if there is a way), I was wondering if playing like the historic Temujin wouldn't be a bad idea.

I am currently in the lead, and thought I could maybe try to intimidate them into paying tribute, and warring with those who resisted one at a time if possible to knock people down before they get strong enough to match me. How exactly do I make them afraid as opposed to just hating me?

Or does this line of thought seem bad for you more experienced players?

 

[Carl5872]

Mongolia's main perk seems to be the Khan's healing ability, I would not make Mongol Terror as play-style-commanding as other abilities, like the Iroquis-one.

Agreed, the main part comes from the keshik, and +1 movement to horses and khan. I thought it would be worth looking into the city state ability to see if theres any use for it.

I do like waiting for war with a civ then conquering all the C/S that went to war with you that you would have use for. If theyre half way across the world I just make peace.

 

[neopara]

I kinda wish that conquering a CS would give you permanent allies instead of just becoming another puppet. It would give me more incentives to go after them and do CS military missions.

 

[apocalypse105]

Best way to make use of this bonus if you allready have some dominance over the world. If you allready conquered 2 or 3 civilizations.. Conquer some citie states to get more gold per turn and get friendly with citie states who want you to eliminate other citie states.

In that senario you will make other people upset but your ready for them because they where your next target anyways sow it doesnt metter and now you get at least some more gold so more units... And if you get friendly with a lot of military citie states(from their quest destroying other citie states) you will get a lot of units from them.

The quicker you do this the better beat your neighbours in the classical age or begin medieval era for your special units. And start conquering citie states for other citie states favor.

 

[Deau]

Well the current game I'm in everyone is mostly guarded against me for warmongering, and one even is hostile. Since I cant think of a way to win them back to friendly, (and please share if there is a way), I was wondering if playing like the historic Temujin wouldn't be a bad idea.

I am currently in the lead, and thought I could maybe try to intimidate them into paying tribute, and warring with those who resisted one at a time if possible to knock people down before they get strong enough to match me. How exactly do I make them afraid as opposed to just hating me?

Or does this line of thought seem bad for you more experienced players?

Recovering good relationship is pretty hard. If you were massively denounced by one another, you have stacking "denounced" penalty towards one another for 50 turns and if they're off timed, they are likely to be renewed at term. The only decent way to recover is through major gifts. Usually gifting a bad conquered city that shares a border with another AI will get you a good bump upwards. You can probably then spam sell them luxuries for 136g per (which is awfully lower than the 300g when friendly).

Currently the best way to get through bad relationship is to plan ahead and delay the warmongering hate as much as possible. This is done through never razing civs or CSs.

On a side note, in your particular game, since diplo can't really be recovered and most CSs seem to be allies of your enemies, it might be wise to puppet a few on your marching path to your last enemy for domination. If you don't you are at risk that your last AI enemy will win by diplomacy before you win.

In order for a civ to be affraid, you need to have a significantly stronger army than theirs and since numbers counts for more than quality(at least in the demographics, I know it was changed sightly in DoW balance in .275), an AI @king+ is very little likely to become affraid(and even less likely upwards). I've had a rare case of an affraid AI on deity lately on a persia-immortal rush in the early game but most AIs keep at least one defending unit in all of the cities and this alone is usually enough, since they are wider than you, to "not be affraid".

If I'm not mistaken, an AI that is guarded or hostile can't be affraid. Affraid is more of a "we had decent diplomacy but your army is so huge I'm affraid that you will change your mind about us". Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this though...I just recall never seeing any AI jump from guarded/hostile to affraid status

 

[chazzycat]

It seems pretty useless to me in the few Mongol games I've played. In the rare case when I want to attack a city state, an extra combat modifier is not going to make any meaningful difference in the outcome. Maybe there is something to be said about shaving a couple turns off of a conquest, but all in all it's got to be a pretty minor effect.

I suppose if you want to go full "r-Tard" & fight the entire world, it would come in handy.

 

[tokyochojin]

I've played a game with the mongols on king and just basically went after the whole world. I know it's not possible on harder levels but it worked really well for me as I picked off a couple of city states at the beginning, who had resources such as horses and steel, then went on a rampage of the world.

 

[Carl5872]

It seems pretty useless to me in the few Mongol games I've played. In the rare case when I want to attack a city state, an extra combat modifier is not going to make any meaningful difference in the outcome. Maybe there is something to be said about shaving a couple turns off of a conquest, but all in all it's got to be a pretty minor effect.

I suppose if you want to go full "r-Tard" & fight the entire world, it would come in handy.

Im currently in a King game and fighting the whole world. I figured they all view me as a warmonger, and there is no way I know to remove this and as far as i know it never fades. I thought that my only option was to attack them all. So far its going ok since the Keshik is a monster. It even works well on defense, just take shots and back out of range. If they chase the city heals, and theyll never catch a 5 mover.

Granted Im only on king and fear as I move up this wont work.

It just sucks that if you declare war even 1 time and even if you leave them with a city you still get negative diplo with people not involved.