MTCSG-01: Immac's Muti-Threaded Concurrent Succession Game -01

I would have to pull out of this. I do not see the point.

I take part in this because I was wanting to show my undestanding of the game. If people allways go for military solution and do not even try to implement something different, like early Merkantenilism, trade blokade to slow down opponent, working with cheaper units I do not see the point for me to continue. Beating up on helpless AI on Emperor do not hold any interest to me.
 
Mutineer: I can understand that from the viewpoint of an experienced emperor player this might not be a rewarding exercise. If you had the time to lurk and make the occasional observation I would find that useful.

From my perspective this is the first time I've made a serious attempt at emperor so I'm basically looking at a just win type game and that probably does mean warfare/ expansion/ domination as the most straightforward victory.
 
I would have to pull out of this. I do not see the point.

I take part in this because I was wanting to show my undestanding of the game. If people allways go for military solution and do not even try to implement something different, like early Merkantenilism, trade blokade to slow down opponent, working with cheaper units I do not see the point for me to continue. Beating up on helpless AI on Emperor do not hold any interest to me.

Sorry to lose you. I always enjoy playing with you or lurking the SGs you play. You are a very innovative player and i have learnt a lot from you. You are welcome to return at any time.

But, to be honest,
trade blokade to slow down opponent
is exactly what i implemented (choose to target the one with the most to lose- the one with great lighthouse). The other things, well, i guess i wasn't there yet.


I too hope you will continue to lurk and provide your advice/critcism. I, for one, would look forward to continue learning from you.
 
Work?
I hope its enjoyable for all.
I sort of like this game; its why i bought it and play it.

I also hope that the A-team is doing their playing and stuff. It will be great to hear from them as to how they are progessing the game.

I.
 
It's hard evaluating 4 saves -- that may be the reason you don't see more concurrent games being played. Certainly, I couldn't tell which one was the "best" by simply loading them and trying to get a feel for each, sorta like kickin' the tires and trying to read the odometer. I figured I needed data. So I broke out the dreaded ::music: pipe organ playing Fuge in D-minor:: spreadsheet!



Each player has two columns, the left for the data, the right for my arbitrary scoring for each catagory:
1st place - 4 points
2nd place - 3 points
3rd place - 2 points
1st place - 1 point

With regards to Number of cities, Immaculate is the clear winner here. This probably has the greatest impact on my scoring because of the better output on all catagories.

With civics, there is not much impact. Vassalage is used by Immaculate and Pholk for experience points, Pigswill is using Bureaucracy because he's not at war. Oz is somewhere in between.

As far as Situation goes, Pholk's save shows us kicking Khan's butt; he's captured Khan's capital but he's permitted Khan and barbarians to establish cities in the south of our own continent.

Oz is also kicking Khan-butt; Beshbalik is ours, Karakorum is about to fall, but he razed the other city east of Karakorum -- we really need cities to give us even a small chance to catch up with Mansu who has the biggest continent all to himself, it appears.

Pigswill's situation is kinda scary because of our power curve while Qin & Toku are annoyed with us. On the plus side, Khan is only cautious with us. Khan has a city on our continent but the barb city is ours -- not good. This one could really use Mutineer's hand. I'm sorry to see he's left. I hope reconsiders and comes back soon. But the biggest problem with this save is that I think it's doomed to not gave us enough territory to compete with Mansu.

Immaculate's save has power -- he took the power of Kanga Du and made it more powerful. The command of territory and strong power rating make it the clear situational winner.

And that may have overwhelmed my scoring system. Maybe I'm just measuring that power over and over again in different ways so that Immaculate's save is too heavily weighted. I may be overrating power. Comments? or not.

So yeah, this member of A-team is doing my playing and stuff!
 
Something missing from your analysis is the economy (from financial advisor):

Immaculate: 140 income, 148expenses, 91 beakers.
Ozbenno: 76 income, 86 expenses, 103 beakers.
pholkhero: 67 income, 71 expenses, 91 beakers.
pigswill: 73 income, 76 expenses, 134 beakers.

(I wonder why I posted this?)
 
:D Wow! I LOVE that there is this much analysis going on.
I wish i was with you two for SGOTM3 (No offence to my team, but they dont really see (or care to see) things the way you two do).

@Frankcor- i would suspect that you are indeed measuring power over and over again. I suspect that # of cities, production and population can't be easily seperated.

Also, there is something in a numerical analysis that can't really be understood with only numbers (you need to go and kick the tires i suspect :D ) People tend to play in phases: build, war, push GPP/cottages, etc. As i was alluding to earlier and as most of us know, real and potential power take turns as being the focus. So that as you build up potential power, you are better able to invoke real power and as you invoke real power, you are better able to use that as a seed for greater growth of potential power. Civ is a balancing act between these two and i dont think that the phase of a player's game can be captured with a spreadsheet.

Having said that, i really like that you did that because it makes it easier to compare the games. Its really great and i am very impressed. Keep up the great numbers work (again, we need you (plural) on our SGOTM team- we have a number-crunch deficiency (so far). I think next time i am going to try to join an established team with players i know.)

It also shows us some interesting things i wouldn't have expected. For example, Pholk has a larger population then I do, but i have a larger percentage of the world's population. Does that mean that in Pholk's save the AI are whipping more or something? This strangeness continues in the column marked 'population score'.

Can you clarify what the acronyms used in the row tittled situation mean. What is E, S, etc?

As an aside to any of my SGOTM3 team-mates who may read this: What i mean is that there isn't enough in depth analysis of our game going on. No offense intended to anyone in particular whatsoever.

Anyway, again, good work, its nice to see this level of thought going into this game. Now if only it could be turned to good. Hehe:crazyeye:
 
From point of view of winning this game is allready won from most saves.
Just crush everyone exept Masta and you get domination. If by any chance that is not engoth, masta is easy enogth, he does not build big army.

the only trick is to work out the most efficient logistic.
 
I played from Ozbenno's save because it was statistically the lowest on francor's spreadsheet and I liked the war situation vs. Khan. I was interested to see how long this war would last.

Spoiler :

1200
promote some units outside Karakorum for the attack

1210
Guilds researched, going for Nationalism next. I whipped a Jewish temple in Beshbalik to get some culture going there. Doing some pillaging.

1220
Mansa offers cow for spices, I agree. I think we need more happiness

1220
Karakorum is captured fairly easily, no units lost I think

1230
Beshbalik has some enemy crossbowmen and cats around it, but I think it is OK with a couple longbowmen defenders and backup on the way. Got some serious war weariness going on, but I'm approaching Turfan and want to see if I can raze it. Turfan looks like it has a big stack in it, but at closer look there are just naval units, some swords and archers. I'm going to move some macemen and cats toward it.

1260
Trade some corn to China for 6 gpt - need the money for this war.

1280
I've got some new macemen to transport across the water, but my galleys were sunk in earlier naval fighting with caravels and there's an enemy caravel guarding the area, so I've got to build up the navy to get these men to the other side.


Wow, I've never pulled this off: I decided to broker for peace with Khan because war weariness was out of control, and he gave me a city in the deal! So now we have Tabriz, isolated over here next to what appears to be a very large barbarian city. It was obviously too expensive for him anyway.

1290
I adopt serfdom for a brief period of building infrastructure

1330
I'm sending a worker and archer to this new city Tabriz. On the mainland, I'm building some libraries and missionaries. I've built a road to the copper site and I need to think about sending a settler in this general direction.

1350
Mansa discovers Liberalism. He's the only one who will trade any techs to me, and I'm not sure if I should as he's pulling so far away? I spread the faith to Karakorum.

1390
Nationalism is researched finally, and I'd like to start building the Taj Mahal so I start it in Cordoba with the idea that there are some extra forests to chop rush it, plus we have marble so it's double production speed. I've added a couple scientist specialists in Madrid and one or two in a couple other cities; research really seemed to be lagging and this will help control happiness in some cities that are growing too quickly.

 
@Pigswill -- thanks for the Economics numbers. I got too lazy to open up the saves another time after I'd thought about it. :)

@Immaculate -- Thanks for your kind words. I'll try to keep the number crunching going, now that I've got a template started. Let me know if you think anything needs adjusting. E, W and S meant East, West and South.

@Mutineer -- good to see you're still lurking here. I'd like to share your optimism but I'm not all that clear on how we'll catch Mansa. Pitch in as you see fit.
 
I played Immaculate's save based on my numbers above, even though I agree that the numbers aren't the best way to judge tthese things. But the power was there and I used it well, I think.
Spoiler :
Inherited Turn 140 (1200 AD) I planned to get another city established down south, between the sheep and deer. That will block all the worthwhile tiles on our continent from being settled. Eventually, the AI will settle an ice fishing village down there but they can have it. The barbarian city we captured is in a terrible spot We could have had two good cities in the space it is using up. I also planned to pursue the war with Khan, taking the capital and it's eastern neighbor, New Sari. We'll want to do it fast before he starts filling his cities with Longbowmen.

Turn 1 (1210 AD) Toledo trained a Catapult and grew unhappy. I whipped a Buddhist Monastary there for 2 population to get rid of unhappiness, stagnated growth, then started work on a Longbowman. We've got plenty of foot soldiers, we need garrisons.

There was a workboat in Seville waiting for orders. This must be the little workboat that could (circumnavigate the world?). I sent him south east toward Chinook where he can retire as a fisherman and live out his life -- a gift from a grateful empire.

Am I a prophet or what? Khan's capital is now filled with Longbowmen:


The price of poker had just gone up. The cultural defense was eliminated at Karakorum so I decided not to wait another 2 turns for healed Macemen from Beshelbik to arrive and allow him to get even stronger -- I hit him with everything we had. I handed out City Raider II promotions to 3 catapults and they died honorably weakening the defenses further. A Mongol CG I longbowman absorbed them all then died when I sent in a 4th CRII catapult. Two CRII macemen went in next, killing two more Longbowmen. Another Catapult, a spearman and Longbowmen cleaned up the rest and the city was ours:


Our Longbowman took a CGII promotion and settled into garrison duty of the former Mongol capital which contained Chichen Itza a Courthouse, Academy and Harbor inside its perimeter (no walls, heh).

Turn 2 (1220 AD) We completed research of Guilds and I decided to take a shot at getting Liberalism first. Next due, then was Paper(10).

Madrid had grown unhappy so I whipped a Taoist temple there. Barcelona had grown unhappy so I whipped a Theater there. Seville completed its whipped Monastary, went to work on a Longbowman. Samarqand, our new acquisition in the west came out of revolt and started work on a Theater to expand it's cultural influence in the region. I sensed a sadness in our people who are growing tired of the war. I urged our troops in the East to make quick work of New Sari then seek a peace treaty with Khan, hopefully extorting something of value from him. Three Macemen and 4 Catapults headed West out of Karakorum to comply with our wishes.

Way down south, our Drill II crossbowman killed a barbarian axeman on the icecap.

I took a look at trade opportunities.
o Mansa won't talk with us. At least he doesn't have paper yet.
o Tokugawa, well he was just being Tokugawa. I got 1 gold/turn for a Corn resource.
o Qin would have given us Banking and 80 gold in exchange for Philosophy. Nobody else has Philosopy, so I didn't want to give it away justyet.

IBT: Qin came looking for Philosphy on his own, with only 40 gold now. I rejected his offer.

A Mongolian Caravel sank our Workboat -- oh well, no retirement for him. A Mongolian Catapult attacked our stack outside of Karakorum and withdrew after wounding everybody.

Turn 3 (1230 AD) Toledo trained a Longbowman, trained another. I sent the Longbowman to catch the ferry to Beshbakik. Madrid completed a Taoist Temple, went back to work on a Spearman. Barcelona completed a Theatre, went back to work on a Buddhist Missionary.

IBT: The Caravelle that killed our WOrkboat, killed our Galley transporting the Longbowman from Seville. That was a blunder, leaving the galley uncovered. I could have moved two sleeping galleys with it.

Turn 4 (1240 AD) Madrid trained a Spearman, started a Settler(4) for our sheep/deer city. Barcelona trained a Buddhist Missionary, started another (6). I sent the Missionary to catch the ferry at madrid. Seville trained a Longbowman, started a . Beshbalik came out of Riot, started and Buddhist Temple. Unhappiness still reigned there so I whipped the Temple. Seville had grown unhappy so I whipped a Buddhist temple there too.

I woke up our sleeping Galleys and send the maurading Caravel that had been terrorizing the straits to the bottom.

Turn 5 (1250 AD) Cordoba trained a Conquistador YAY! Started another(7). Toledo trained a Longbowman for its own garrison (and happiness), started a Conquistador(3). Beshbalik constructed a Buddhist Temple, started a Barracks(13).

Our Galley outside Samarqand in the west had a Mongolian Galleon carrying an Archer and Settler trapped and unable to proceed to the west.


Perhaps it can kill the Mongols with some help from the Madrid ferry.

IBT: A Mongolian Catapult began bombarding Beshbalik while its escorting Crossbowman pillaged a mine outside of town.

Turn 6 (1260 AD) One of our macemen outside of New Sari killed a Mongol Swordsman heading toward Beshbalik.

Turn 7 (1270 AD) Toledo trained a Conquistador, started another(1). Santiago constructed a Library, started a Barracks(6).

We sank the Mongolian Galley outside of Salamanca, losing one of our Galleys in the process. Fair trade as I see it. Meanwhile, our missionary spread Buddhism to Samarqand.

At New Sari, the bombardment was comkpleted and we attacked. Three City Raider catapults died attacking a Mongolian CGI Longbowman without putting a scratch on him. We lost one more catapult, a bombardment specialist and then the Macemen went in.


Our first conquistador arrived in Karakorum, took a Combat II promotion, then killed the Crossbowman outside of Beshbalik. Our Medic maceman at Beshbalik killed the Mongolian Catapult that had been bombarding the city. The Mongolian threat at Beshbalik was ended.

Turn 8 (1280 AD) Madrid trained a Settler and immediately grew unhappy. I whipped a Theatre there to sooth the crowds. Seville constructed a Courthouse and was unhappy. I whipped a theatre there. Toledo trained a Conquistador and had grown unhappy. I whipped a Confucian temple there. Karakorum stopped rioting and was starving and unhappy as heck. I whipped a Confucian Temple there.

Turn 9 (1290 AD) Madrid constructed a Theatre, started a Longbowman(2). Seville constructed a Theatre, started a Longbowman(6). Toledo constructed a Confucian Temple but was still unhappy. I whipped a Colosseum there. Karakorum constructed a Confucian Temple and was still unhappy and starving. I whipped a Theatre there. That would stabilize the captured capital.

Turn 10 (1300 AD) We invented Paper and started work on Education

Barcelona trained a Buddhist Missionary, and started a Buddhist Monastary(4). I sent the Missionary to Chinook. I stopped growth because it was about to grow unhappy. Toledo constructed a Colosseum, started a Conquistador(2). Karakorum constructed a Theatre, started a Forge(33). Chinook had grown unhappy, I whipped a Courthouse there.

I traded Sheep for 1 gold per turn from Tokugawa. He's a cheap one, for sure. I traded corn to Qin for 2 gold per turn. He has Philosophy now.

I checked in with Khan:


I decided to let him stew a little longer. It was tempting but I figured we would press on to get the Pyramids.

Turn 11 (1310 AD) Madrid trained a Longbowman, started a Conquistador(7). I sent the Longbman north to Salamanca. Chinook constructed a Courthouse, started a Barracks(10).

We found the Pyramids. This is going to take a while.


Turn 12 (1320 AD) Cordoba trained a Conquistador and started another(5). I sent the Conquistador south to deal with a barbarian Swordsman threatening Chinook. Toledo trained a Conquistador, started a Maceman(2). I stopped growth there. New Sari came out of revolt and started a Theatre(8).

Murcia was founded:


The Murcians started work on a Theatre(17). Meanwhile, our missionary spread Buddhism to Chinook.

IBT: At Turfan, Khan hit our stack with a Catapult and 2 Swordsmen. They died fruitlessly.

Turn 13 (1330 AD) The bombardment of Turfan began.

IBT: A Mongol catapult, two Pikemen and a Longbowman attack and kill 2 of our Conquistadors outside Turfan. Meanwhile, a Mongol Caravel sank one of our Seville/Karkorum ferry Galleys. I decide to take the other Galley to safe harbor, ending our sealift support for the eastern campaign.

Turn 14 (1340 AD) Barcelona constructed a Buddhist Monastery, started a Galley(5). Toledo completed a Maceman, started a Galley(2). The Maceman joined another Maceman from the western campaign on the last ferry to Karakorum.

IBT: A Mongol Longbowman killed another Conquistador outside Turfan. I'm obviously using these horsemen wrong.

Turn 15 (1350 AD) Seville trained a Longbowman and has grown unhappy again. I whipped a Colosseum there. Beshbalik constructed a Barracks and had grown unhappy. I whipped a Confucian Temple there.

Turn 16 (1360 AD) Seville constructed a Colosseum, started a Maceman(13). Toledo trained a Galley, started another(2). Beshbalik cosntructed a Confucian Temple, started a Maceman(12). samarqand constructed a Theatre, started a Forge(24).

IBT: Mansa Musa adopted free Market and the Temple of Solomon was built in a far away land (that would be Tokugawa).

Turn 17 (1370 AD) Madrid trained a Conquistador, started National Epic(12). Cordoba trained a Conquisatador, started a Maceman(5).

IBT: Another Mongol Swordsman died attacking our macemen outside of Turfan.

Turn 18 (1380 AD) Salamanca constructed a Forge and had grown unhappy again. I whipped a Taoist temple there.

IBT: A Mongol pikeman died attacking a Maceman outside Turfan. Mansa Mansu completed Taj Mahl. We're falling behind by fighting this stupid war in Mongolia.

Turn 19 (1390 AD) Salamanca constructed a Taoist Temple, started a Courthouse(9).

Here was the situation at Turfan:


We were a little light on troops but at least it was not on a hill so I went after it. When the dust settled, Mongolia still owned the Pyramids. They had two wounded Longbowmen and a Swordsman; we had a Wounded Conquistador, 7 wounded Macemen, a wounded Catapult and a Spearman medic remaining. There was still hope to get the Pyramids next turn.

Turn 20 (1400 AD) Barcelona trained a Galley and had grown unhappy. I whipped a Buddhist Temple there. Chinook constructed a Barracks, started a Maceman(17). new Sari constructed a Theatre, started a Courthouse(17).

Khan added an Axeman to the beaten up garrison at Turfan. I promoted a wounded Maceman and he killed a Longbowman in the city. A wounded Maceman died attacking the Axeman at 60% odds. The next maceman killed a Pikeman in the city, clearning the way for our Conquistador to kill a Swordsman. One more maceman killed the last Longbowman while another Maceman killed the wounded Axeman. Finally, with one Maceman to spare, we killed the last defender, a healthy Catapult.


Time to end this war:


Bingo. I took the deal.

That's it. We have the Pyramids and that opens some civics choices for us:

Time to put that Spiritual Trait to work. We've got a lot of catching up to do in order to beat Mansa. He'll trade Education but not to us -- he still refuses to talk. But I think we still have a shot at getting to Liberalism first.


Help wanted: someone to play a builder's cycle. Here's the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81694/MTCSG-01_AD-1400.Civ4SavedGame
 
Spoiler :

This is short and to the point so narr. :p

Using Pholk's save I kept the war effort moving, or creeping more so, along. Military builds mostly for the start, more to infrastructure to the end. Used the pillaging gold to keep research chugging along.

However in the wash, far to much :smoke: . I should of switched of engineering to something more immediately benefical for starters. At some point I also whipped a building that had one turn to finish when I wasn't paying attention... hmm that might of been most of the time I get the feeling. Not razing one of the captured cities that I think I should of. Eh, enough belly aching anyhow.

Captured the Mongol cities New Sarai (1240AD), Beshbalik (1280AD). Destroyed Tiflis (the one on home isle, 1330AD). Got a token offering with peace at that point, as war weariness was starting to bight. Switched from Vassalage to Bureaucracy at that point.

Was looking to capture the barb cities at this point only to find that they've just gone from archers to longbows. :mad: Finally capture Hun on the home island, but decide to raze it as the placement is just wrong. We've got a settler almost done anyhow.

There's a few troops on the west isle, might need a few more to take that barb city however.

All in all, suckage.

:thumbdown

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/80073/MTCSG-01_AD-1400.Civ4SavedGame

 
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