Muslim Council of Britain in uproar after repeated violence in the name of Islam

[Cheetah]

Is something I would have liked to read.

But I haven't seen anything like it. Has the media simply not reported on it?

Anyway, the council is apparently angry, and here's the reason:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36900310

Fireman Sam episode pulled amid Koran row



An episode of Fireman Sam in which one character appears to tread on a page from the Koran has been withdrawn.

A scene in the children's programme shows a fireman slipping on a pile of papers - and as they fly into the air a page from the Koran is "briefly depicted", production firm Mattel said.

The episode was first broadcast in October 2014 on Channel 5 but the "error" has only recently been spotted.

[...]

Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, tweeted: "I have no idea what went through the producers's minds when they thought this was a good idea #baffled".

[...]

In all fairness, a quick look on twitter didn't reveal much outrage, so I'll assume this was a (mostly) tempest in a teapot. I don't think the episode should have been pulled or apologies issued, but to each their own, I suppose.


Though as I mentioned in the beginning, I have yet to see any big protests by Muslims against Islamism or Jihadi terrorism. During the Muhammad cartoons, at least 1500 Muslims protested in Oslo, and another 4000 in London. Would be nice to see equivalent or larger numbers in a protest against Islamic violence.

 

[Traitorfish]

Normandy Church Attack

26 July 2016

The Muslim Council of Britain is shocked and horrified to learn about the attack today at a church in Normandy, France where a priest has been brutally murdered and others seriously injured.

The Secretary General of the MCB, Harun Khan said, “I condemn this barbaric attack on an elderly compatriot of faith. It is utterly reprehensible, and there is no justification for such a cowardly act. Many outlets have reported that Father Jacques Hamel has served in the Church in St-Etienne-du-Rouvray for many decades, and we mourn his demise. My thoughts and prayers are with his loved ones, and hope those injured make a full and swift recovery”.

The MCB endorses the statement by the French Muslim civil society organisation Collectif Comtre L’Islamophobie en France (CCIF) in saying, ‘(We) stand in solidarity with the Catholic community’.

Nice Attacks: Muslim Council of Britain Condemns Yet Another Outrage in France

15 July 2016


The Muslim Council of Britain today expressed its outrage of the attacks in Nice that took place last night. Some 80 people including children are reported to have died.

Dr Shuja Shafi, Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain said: “I condemn utterly the violence once again meted out on the people of France. They have endured blood and carnage and it follows weeks of bloody outrage around the world, including in Muslim countries. Whatever twisted motives these people claim to be murdering for, it is quite clear these atrocities are designed to sow division, and create hatred and distance between communities. We cannot let them succeed.”

“My thoughts and prayers are for the families of the victims and the wounded.”

Daesh Attacks Muslims Worldwide: Muslim Council of Britain Condemns Mindless Terrorism

5th July 2016

As we conclude the holy month of Ramadan, the Muslim Council of Britain notes the tragic terrorist attacks that have taken place throughout the Muslim world. Yesterday, even the holy city of Medina was not spared, with a suicide bomber who seemingly tried to attack worshippers outside the Prophet’s Mosque. Earlier yesterday, terrorists attacked the city of Qatif and over the weekend over two hundred lost their lives in Baghdad and dozens more in Dhaka, the capital of Bangladesh. One British citizen is believed to have been killed in the Baghdad blast.

Dr Shuja Shafi, Secretary General of the MCB said: “Daesh claim to act in Islam’s name, but their actions are anything but. In this blessed month of Ramadan, these murderers have attacked Muslims in Turkey, Bangladesh, Iraq and now in the holy city of Medina. These people have no regard for the sanctity of life in our faith, or due regard for the sacredness of this month or our Prophet’s mosque. Upon learning about yesterday’s attack, I was reminded of a saying from our beloved Prophet: ‘Whoever terrifies the people of Madina through oppression, God will terrify him. The curse of God, His angels, and all humans will be upon him. God will not accept his compulsory or optional good deeds on the Day of Judgment.’ My thoughts and prayers are with the communities suffering from the acts of this terror group, in particular those families who have lost loved ones just before Eid, and pray that those injured make a speedy recovery.”

Iraq Bombing – Muslim Council Condemns Terrorist Blast

04 July 2016

The Muslim Council of Britain today issued a statement following the despicable terrorist attack that took place in a busy shopping district in Baghdad on Saturday, 2 July. Despite Baghdad having faced a number of terror attacks, this has been the deadliest single incident for years, killing at least 200 people. One British citizen is believed to have been killed in the blast.

Dr Shuja Shafi, Secretary General of the MCB said: “I condemn the abominable attack that took place in Baghdad over the weekend. We understand that Daesh has claimed responsibility for the suicide truck bombing. In this blessed month of Ramadan, these murderers have attacked Muslims in Turkey, Bangladesh and now, once again, in Iraq. This only proves once again that these people have no regard for the sanctity of life in our faith, or due regard for this sacred month. My thoughts and prayers are with the communities suffering from the acts of this terror group, in particular those families who have lost loved ones just before Eid, and pray that those injured make a speedy recovery.”

Istanbul Attack: Muslim Council of Britain Condemns Terror Outrage

29 June 2016

The Muslim Council of Britain today spoke out against the terrorist attack that took place at Istanbul’s airport yesterday, 28 June. Some 38 people have lost their lives.

Dr Shuja Shafi, Secretary General of the MCB said: “I condemn the terrorist attack that has taken place in Istanbul yesterday. We understand from the Turkish authorities that this attack may have been carried out by Daesh. That this took place in the holy month of Ramadan only underscores that the perpetrators have no moral compass, their actions are far from the values of our great religion of Islam. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims, and I hope those injured make a speedy recovery. Istanbul is a great city with many visitors from around the world, including Britain. Even though Turkey has endured many terrorist attacks, I pray that the country returns to peace so that it can be experienced by many more."

5char

 

[Cheetah]

Thanks, that helps.

So it's just underreported in the media.

Would still be nice to see the protests though.

 

[Traitorfish]

Vigil in Solidarity with the People of Paris

Faith communities, including the Christian-Muslim Forum and the Muslim Council of Britain, organised a silent vigil at Trafalgar Square at 6:30pm, Saturday 15, to remember those who have been killed in Paris. Attendees took with them tea lights and blue, white and red flowers.

Catriona Robertson, the Director of the Christian-Muslim Forum, said: “Terrorism has no religion – and today’s event will show solidarity and how we are all united in our prayers for those killed and injured.”

Dr. Shuja added: “The attacks once again in Paris are horrific and abhorrent, and we condemn this violence in the strongest possible terms. My thoughts and prayers for the families of those killed and injured and for the people of France, our neighbours. This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.”

Muslim anti-Isis march not covered by mainstream media outlets, say organisers

Organisers of an anti-Isis march in London have spoken of their frustration after mainstream media outlets failed to cover the demonstration.

Thousands of people took part in the annual UK Arbaeen Procession, coordinated by the Husaini Islamic Trust UK, on Sunday.

Although Shia Muslims take part in the march each year to mark the Arbaeen, or mourning, anniversary of Imam Husain - a seventh-century leader who fought for social justice - this year organisers decided to use the event as a platform to denounce terrorism following the recent Isis attacks in Paris, Beirut and elsewhere.

Organiser Waqar Haider said: "This year we had hundreds of placards which were basically saying ‘no’ to terrorism and ‘no’ to Isis. A very direct message.

So again, this is occurring, but the media isn't giving it much attention. Perhaps organsiers need to try something on a larger scale? But, then, it's difficult to encourage people to attend a protest that they don't expect to have an impact.

I imagine there's also an anxiety among British Muslims that public demonstrations against ISIS may be use to further an aggressive foreign policy in the region, which most are firmly opposed to.

 

[W|M]

Though as I mentioned in the beginning, I have yet to see any big protests by Muslims against Islamism or Jihadi terrorism. During the Muhammad cartoons, at least 1500 Muslims protested in Oslo, and another 4000 in London. Would be nice to see equivalent or larger numbers in a protest against Islamic violence.

Antifascist events work best when they're actually doing direct action against fascists (a category which includes ISIS), and not just after a fascist attack.

 

[Old Hippy]

Thanks, that helps.

So it's just underreported in the media.

Would still be nice to see the protests though.

no pleasing some people. I guess

next time your at a protest or candle light vigil ask around and you will find Muslims quietly expressing their shock about what is happening.
As my partner has discovered it is unwise to openly dress as a Muslim at such events as you will likely attract abuse just getting there

 

[Cheetah]

So again, this is occurring, but the media isn't giving it much attention. Perhaps organsiers need to try something on a larger scale? But, then, it's difficult to encourage people to attend a protest that they don't expect to have an impact.

I imagine there's also an anxiety among British Muslims that public demonstrations against ISIS may be use to further an aggressive foreign policy in the region, which most are firmly opposed to.

Huh. That is close to what I was imagining. The first one doesn't seem as big, and the second is an annual event anyway, but it's definitely positive.

Now I'm disappointed in the media not reporting it though. Hm...

Antifascist events work best when they're actually doing direct action against fascists (a category which includes ISIS), and not just after a fascist attack.

no pleasing some people. I guess

next time your at a protest or candle light vigil ask around and you will find Muslims quietly expressing their shock about what is happening.
As my partner has discovered it is unwise to openly dress as a Muslim at such events as you will likely attract abuse just getting there

I'm sure there have been Muslims present at all, at least most, anti-fascist events, post-terror protests and vigils, but that's not quite what I am getting at.

Maybe I'm just crazy, but at least to me, it would have meant a lot to see a couple thousand Muslims - and preferably Muslims only - coming out and protesting Islamic inspired/Islamist terrorism. At least once. But the only time I've observed such a Muslim community action was during the Muhammad cartoon incident, a fact which really makes me uncomfortable.

Though, if the media won't report on it, or if there's just even a large chance they won't report on it, then I can see why there wouldn't be much reason in trying to organise something like that.

 

[Traitorfish]

What's important to remember is that most British Muslims won't feel any more of a personal connection to the groups behind these attacks than other Britons. They're mostly Pakistani, Indian or Bangladeshi in origin, and mostly from Sufi, Deobandi, or Twelver Shi'ite denominations, so there's reason for them to feel any more of a cultural connection to Arab-speaking Iraqi Wahhabists than a Norwegian Lutheran would to some deranged American Pentecostal. ISIS claims to Islamic Caliphate are offensive to them, but not necessarily something they feel responsible for, any more than the Norwegian feels responsible for the ramblings of the American.

What's of greater concern to British Muslims is disaffected members of their own communities taking up the banner of ISIS et al., and there's a lot of effort being exerted within Muslim communities to challenge that, but it's not receiving a lot of media attention of government support because, well, it's not very exciting, is it?

 

[Cheetah]

I know... I'm just selfish I suppose, but I'd still like to see such a protest. Preferably also showing support for freedom of speech, equality, secularism, liberalism, etc.

Even if it's all really there, it's really hard to see through the noise made by the wahabists and terrorists...

 

[Cheetah]

I don't want to seem ungrateful, so I'd like to revive this thread for a bit to post about two actions regarding this topic which I find very laudable:

1. Students in Bangladesh protest rise of Islamic extremism

NEW DELHI (AP) — More than 100,000 students in Bangladesh linked their hands Monday to form human chains to protest two attacks last month by suspected Islamist militants.

The students from hundreds of colleges and universities in Dhaka and other cities took part in the protest as part of a campaign to create awareness about the rise of Islamic extremism in the country.

Protesters carried banners that read “Bangladesh stands against terrorism” and “We want peace; no place for terrorism.”

The organizers said they particularly wanted students to lead Monday’s protests because the suspects in last month’s attacks were mostly students and young men.

If those are the only banners, then they're not identifying Islamism as a problem, but it's still a very positive sign.

2. Muslims Refuse To Bury Priest Killer Kermiche

Muslims have refused to bury one of the terrorists who murdered a Catholic priest as he celebrated Mass.

Community leaders in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray said they did not want to "taint" Islam by having any association with Adel Kermiche, the 19-year-old jihadist who killed Fr Jacques Hamel in his hometown in northern France.

Mohammed Karabila, president of the local Muslim cultural association and imam of one of the town's mosques, told Le Parisien: "We're not going to taint Islam with this person.

"We won't participate in preparing the body or the burial."

In a separate conversation with Sky News, Mr Karabila reiterated there would be no involvement by the mosque's religious leadership in any funeral.

This too is a strong positive sign, though here too there's no talk about Islamism as such.

Still, pretty good, all in all. If nothing else, it at least makes me a bit happier.

 

[Flying Pig]

Without wishing to give this too specific an application, I'd be wary of holding Muslims (or any other group) to a higher standard of proving their patriotism, good intentions and so on. We didn't expect university students to organise demonstrations after the Virginia Tech mass shooting, to prove that they didn't sympathise with the killer, or expect white people to prove, after Anders Brevik's mass shooting, that they didn't share his ideas about what being white meant. Muslims citizens are citizens like anybody else - we shouldn't start treating them as if they're collectively on probation, or as if we have become the judges of who should and who shouldn't count as a full citizen.

 

[warpus]

I don't understand why it's offensive to show parts of the Koran on TV but maybe I'm missing something.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I don't understand why it's offensive to show parts of the Koran on TV but maybe I'm missing something.

I think the issue was that it was purely gratuitous. Some animator that thought it was a "clever easter egg" to make the pile of papers into a political statement in a children's show.

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't understand why it's offensive to show parts of the Koran on TV but maybe I'm missing something.

The characters tread on it. Feet and shoes are considered very unclean in Islam and Arab culture - hence the insult of waving or throwing a shoe at somebody. Fireman Sam isn't the only person to fall foul of this recently.

 

[classical_hero]

5char

But where are the protests?

Moderator Action: Stop the trolling - ori
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Cheetah]

I think the issue was that it was purely gratuitous. Some animator that thought it was a "clever easter egg" to make the pile of papers into a political statement in a children's show.

It was most likely a Korean animator trying to save time, and found a prerendered image of some unintelligible text which he could use for the page. It wasn't really meant to be seen anyway, but saved the guy some time animating the scene.

Without wishing to give this too specific an application, I'd be wary of holding Muslims (or any other group) to a higher standard of proving their patriotism, good intentions and so on. We didn't expect university students to organise demonstrations after the Virginia Tech mass shooting, to prove that they didn't sympathise with the killer, or expect white people to prove, after Anders Brevik's mass shooting, that they didn't share his ideas about what being white meant. Muslims citizens are citizens like anybody else - we shouldn't start treating them as if they're collectively on probation, or as if we have become the judges of who should and who shouldn't count as a full citizen.

To some extent it does hold Muslims to another standard, I suppose, but still...

The Virginia Tech shooter didn't have any political message, did he? Or any organisation or ideology he was based in? I'm not sure what one would expect to protest against in that case.

After Breivik there were huge protests declaring that they "choose love, not hate" and the Prime Minister saying that we would respond with "more love, more openness", etc. Maybe it wasn't required, but it sure seemed to be a thing which lots of people appreciated. There weren't only white people in those protests of course, but by necessity there were mostly white people. And thinking about it, it would have been a terrible signal if most of those protesting would have been immigrants! What would that say about what most Norwegians were thinking about the attack...

I'm not saying that Muslims aren't proper citisens, but I am saying that they represent a specific group of people from which the vast majority of terrorists have come from in the recent past. As such, I don't think it is too surprising that protests against said terrorism from that group is appreciated.

 

[Old Hippy]

To some extent it does hold Muslims to another standard, I suppose, but still...

The Virginia Tech shooter didn't have any political message, did he? Or any organisation or ideology he was based in? I'm not sure what one would expect to protest against in that case.

that's exactly how my partner feels about ISIS and most Saudi inspired terrorist as she is a Turkish Muslim and just dose not understand what it has to do with her religion of peace, especially after 30 years in Australia

I'm not saying that Muslims aren't proper citisens, but I am saying that they represent a specific group of people from which the vast majority of terrorists have come from in the recent past. As such, I don't think it is too surprising that protests against said terrorism from that group is appreciated.

they say disregard everything before the word but

sounds to me like you are saying they are not proper citizens as they could be terrorists and they must/should do what you think they should do to prove they are not guilty of thought crime
My partner would say '' stuff that mate'', she is still coming to terms with the local language ... she would be more concerned with nephews becoming radicalised due to right wing racist groups making Muslims feel that they are second class citizens.The mere fact that Muslims are expected to behave differently than others dose play to ISIS propaganda because every time someone points out in the media that they don't protest enough, some right wing nutjob will say something like ''go back to where you came from'' in the street. Most people will ignore this, young macho males, still forming an identity can be drawn to terrorist cults that say 'we accept you, come join us"

 

[Cheetah]

that's exactly how my partner feels about ISIS and most Saudi inspired terrorist as she is a Turkish Muslim and just dose not understand what it has to do with her religion of peace, especially after 30 years in Australia

ISIL are an entire group of people who has made it very clear that their political goal is to conquer the whole word and enforce their understanding of Islam onto everyone.

So they definitely have a political goal. If one wants to claim that it has no basis in Islam, then I think there is a lot of arguments to make. ISIL clearly has a interpretation of Islam which they find supports of their position.

ISIL are Muslims, just as much as anyone else who claims to be Muslim. Playing the 'true Scotsman' fallacy doesn't help much. They're clearly a different type of Muslim than most other Muslims, but they're still Muslims.

they say disregard everything before the word but

sounds to me like you are saying they are not proper citizens as they could be terrorists and they must/should do what you think they should do to prove they are not guilty of thought crime
My partner would say '' stuff that mate'', she is still coming to terms with the local language ... she would be more concerned with nephews becoming radicalised due to right wing racist groups making Muslims feel that they are second class citizens.The mere fact that Muslims are expected to behave differently than others dose play to ISIS propaganda because every time someone points out in the media that they don't protest enough, some right wing nutjob will say something like ''go back to where you came from'' in the street. Most people will ignore this, young macho males, still forming an identity can be drawn to terrorist cults that say 'we accept you, come join us"

The vast majority of Muslims aren't terrorists, aren't criminal, and in most situations wouldn't harm anyone. I've never said anything else.

But a strong message from all those Muslims to those few Muslims who might choose to join ISIL, and to all those of us who are struggling to hear from any but the radical and extremist Muslims, would be nice.

 

[Traitorfish]

ISIL are an entire group of people who has made it very clear that their political goal is to conquer the whole word and enforce their understanding of Islam onto everyone.

So they definitely have a political goal. If one wants to claim that it has no basis in Islam, then I think there is a lot of arguments to make. ISIL clearly has a interpretation of Islam which they find supports of their position.

ISIL are Muslims, just as much as anyone else who claims to be Muslim. Playing the 'true Scotsman' fallacy doesn't help much. They're clearly a different type of Muslim than most other Muslims, but they're still Muslims.

None the less, differences which are taken as self-evident between different strains of Christianity are allowed to become blurred when looking at Islam. Nobody would expect a mainline Lutheran or Anglican to make a grand show of rejecting fundamentalist Christian sects, because nobody imagines that they approve in the first place, but Muslims are expected to go out of their way to denounce deranged desert-warlords who are every bit as abhorrent and alien to them and their religious life as they are to any of us.

I certainly agree that a strong message from Muslim communities to their own members who are tempted by the message of groups like ISIS is desirable and necessary. But very often, what is demanded of Muslims is that they accept some fraction of guilt by association and make public repentance for it, which is neither just nor an effective way of convincing disenfranchised young men that they aren't second-class citizens.

 

[Old Hippy]

ISIL are an entire group of people who has made it very clear that their political goal is to conquer the whole word and enforce their understanding of Islam onto everyone.

So they definitely have a political goal. If one wants to claim that it has no basis in Islam, then I think there is a lot of arguments to make. ISIL clearly has a interpretation of Islam which they find supports of their position.

ISIL are Muslims, just as much as anyone else who claims to be Muslim. Playing the 'true Scotsman' fallacy doesn't help much. They're clearly a different type of Muslim than most other Muslims, but they're still Muslims.
The vast majority of Muslims aren't terrorists, aren't criminal, and in most situations wouldn't harm anyone. I've never said anything else.

But a strong message from all those Muslims to those few Muslims who might choose to join ISIL, and to all those of us who are struggling to hear from any but the radical and extremist Muslims, would be nice.

ISIL has a political goal, everyone would agree with that, Muslims don't have a political goal

you also just made a good case for young Muslim men to adopt ISIL doctrine as its just a different type of Islam...
Muslims say that it is wrong and dose not represent Islamic views every single Friday in their mosques, TF linked statements that condemn violence from their councils, and yet your still more interested in what the violent extremist have to say than peace loving Muslims

if your struggling to hear them, start by listening to them,