New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[jalapeno_dude]

3 months, but they are event driven, so I'll go "Hey, nine months in [Snappily name: Brazilian-French Diplomatic crisis occurs], three months of X happens, what do involved players want to do?"

Like this:

Long Update            _3_6_9_12_15_18_21_24_27_30_33_36_39_42_45_48_L
[French-Brazil Crisis] _____S_S__S__S________________________________
[Mexican Revolt]      ______________S___S____________S_S____________
[British-US Crisis]     _________________________S____________________

Short updates are short, to produce constant activity in the NES .

That makes a degree of sense, but unless the RL interval between short updates is only a day or two, I'm worried that players who aren't in crisis will lose their sense of involvement in the NES, as happened with DisNES3.

After each short I'll rework out PC for the 'involved'.

Okay, that's what I wanted to know.

Thats a good point, I'll have to think about it.

You do that.

Or maybe changed to a descriptor.

I support this.

Yes. Well its paying their wages and operational stuff.

You misunderstand my question. To make the budget add up to 100%, the money to pay for bureaucracy must fit into one of Military Maintenance, Infrastructure Maintenance, Social Maintenance, R&D (later on), Savings, Paying off the Debt, Enacting Policies. So which area is it in, or should it be represented separately in the budget line of the stats?

Also, you say that bureaucratic effectiveness is a numeric, but there's no number attached to it in the sample stats. So should there be a number and the sample is wrong, or is there no number and the rules are wrong?

 

[Disenfrancised]

That makes a degree of sense, but unless the RL interval between short updates is only a day or two, I'm worried that players who aren't in crisis will lose their sense of involvement in the NES, as happened with DisNES3.

Well considering how little time I anticipate spending on a short update and the limited amount of information to process I think turnarounds of a day or two aren't unlikely, depending on the players (and I'm quite willing to put lack of short orders in as 'government dithering' to move things along ).

You misunderstand my question. To make the budget add up to 100%, the money to pay for bureaucracy must fit into one of Military Maintenance, Infrastructure Maintenance, Social Maintenance, R&D (later on), Savings, Paying off the Debt, Enacting Policies. So which area is it in, or should it be represented separately in the budget line of the stats?

Also, you say that bureaucratic effectiveness is a numeric, but there's no number attached to it in the sample stats. So should there be a number and the sample is wrong, or is there no number and the rules are wrong?

I considered putting it seperately, but in the interests of keeping the budget simple it can go under social maintenance. Yeah I decided against a numeric but forgot to remove it from the stats .

 

[a_propagandist]

Are there any industrial/modern NESes that were abandoned with intact stats? I'm interested in adopting one.

 

[Israelite9191]

Here is a revised map of the mercenary regions for YosefNES. I consolidated Europe into two regions, although I'm still not certain whether to include the OTL Baltic States region in Eastern Europe only, or in the East-West overlap. I think that this should generally clear up the concerns that were expressed, but please let me know what you all think.

Spoiler :

 

[Dachs]

"The Emperor is coming here?"

"That is correct, Commander. And he is most displeased with your apparent lack of map."

 

[Israelite9191]

You just had to read this in the half a minute between posting and editing in the map, didn't you?

 

[Dachs]

What's the rationale behind making the Ionian littoral southern Smyrnaish region yeller but Bithynia puke-brown?

 

[silver 2039]

Regarding Vijaynagara they are known to have utilized Muslim and European mercenaries. Vijaynagara used gunners from Central Asia and Arab archers for instance. Later when the Europeans arrived they used Portuguese infantry. What is the justification for splitting the Bahamani Sulatanate? Also why is Kashmir in the steppe/Central Asia group? And how come Afghanistan isn't?

 

[das]

Also, pardon me if I misunderstood something, but isn't it pretty much a given that Western European mercenaries will serve in Eastern Europe as well (and possibly vice versa; I don't think there was much in the way of Eastern European mercenaries in OTL, though it might be different here; still, the western and central Mediterranean Europe is a far better breeding ground for mercenaries than any other parts of Europe)?

 

[Israelite9191]

What's the rationale behind making the Ionian littoral southern Smyrnaish region yeller but Bithynia puke-brown?

Left over from an older version. Will fix.

Regarding Vijaynagara they are known to have utilized Muslim and European mercenaries. Vijaynagara used gunners from Central Asia and Arab archers for instance. Later when the Europeans arrived they used Portuguese infantry. What is the justification for splitting the Bahamani Sulatanate? Also why is Kashmir in the steppe/Central Asia group? And how come Afghanistan isn't?

I will add Kashmir to India. I had added Afghanistan to the Northern India region to reflect the widespread presence of Afghan military in Muslim India. Do you think it would make more sense to have India as a single region? Based on what you're saying, I'm leaning that way.

Also, pardon me if I misunderstood something, but isn't it pretty much a given that Western European mercenaries will serve in Eastern Europe as well (and possibly vice versa; I don't think there was much in the way of Eastern European mercenaries in OTL, though it might be different here; still, the western and central Mediterranean Europe is a far better breeding ground for mercenaries than any other parts of Europe)?

Well, there are the stratioti and certain Hajduk at the least, and I would think you could qualify the Cossacks as mercenaries. I was considering the earlier suggestion that countries should be allowed to recruit units from neighbouring regions, but at a higher price. I'm leaning towards that as the best solution to this problem.

EDIT: New version of the map. Edits to border in Anatolia, Baltic, Kashmir. India now one region and the Near East and Africa now one region.

Spoiler :

EDIT2 : Another version, with further changes to Anatolia and in East Asia, including the seperation of a Japanese region from the mainland.

Spoiler :

 

[Supermath]

Also, I plan on using something similar to the rules Azale used in his latest NES. However, I am not sure which cities would be considered ECs in 1861. Would it be possible if someone could make such a list? I would be eternally grateful if you did.

 

[das]

Well, there are the stratioti and certain Hajduk at the least, and I would think you could qualify the Cossacks as mercenaries.

Ah. They were more like non-state militaries that sometimes just worked for nearby states for privileges (rather than money, because the monetary economy was generally less developed in those regions in OTL); I suppose they could possibly have served as mercenaries if that were to become really profitable, though it would even then be a very different system from the Catalan and Italian companies, and closer to the Germanic mercenaries in Roman armies.

 

[alex994]

Why is Guangxi, Guangdong and Sichuan considered part of Indochina's region?

 

[Israelite9191]

Ah. They were more like non-state militaries that sometimes just worked for nearby states for privileges (rather than money, because the monetary economy was generally less developed in those regions in OTL); I suppose they could possibly have served as mercenaries if that were to become really profitable, though it would even then be a very different system from the Catalan and Italian companies, and closer to the Germanic mercenaries in Roman armies.

This is true. I suppose they would be better managed as levies than as mercenaries.

Why is Guangxi, Guangdong and Sichuan considered part of Indochina's region?

To give China access to to Indochinese mercenaries. Since I'm going to allow hiring of mercenaries from neighbouring regions, though, I will make them part of East Asia.

 

[Israelite9191]

Here is the latest version of the mercenary rules. Looking for criticism, particularly on the numbers I've assigned.

Mercenaries

Mercenaries are cheap, generally of a high quality, and readily available. They are also unreliable and expensive to maintain. In times of war it is generally a very good idea to use mercenaries as an accompaniment to your national forces and levies. In fact, particularly in Europe, levies can easily provide the bulk of your war-time forces. As a general rule, assume that mercenaries will be better armed, trained, and led than national forces.

For the purposes of recruitment, mercenaries will be divided first by region, and then by country. The region will consist of some number of nations that are grouped geographically, with some overlap. Nations can recruit mercenaries from within their own region or regions and from regions neighbouring them for a higher price. Within each region there will be mercenaries in two groupings, region-wide and country-specific. Region-wide mercenaries are recruited from the roving bands and scattered populations while country-specific mercenaries are those who hold base in a specific territory. Rules for recruiting the two are slightly different. For the former, when purchasing mercenaries you submit in your orders how many you want, and you pray for luck. Generally, you can hope for seven thousands for eco, but if you are lucky you may receive more, and if you are unlucky fewer. For the latter, you must specify the country you wish to recruit from. If you have good relations with the country, you will have much improved luck in recruiting mercenaries, while if you poor relations you will have less luck. After recruitment, you must spend one eco per turn for every ten thousands deployed.

The format for listing available mercenaries is: “Country Name or ‘Regional’: Name of Mercenary Type if Applicable, Description, Special Considerations if Applicable, Number Available (Countries With Good Relations if Applicable).” If more than one mercenary type is available in a specific country, a semicolon will follow the “Number Available” section, separating off the information for the second unit type.

The regions are:
Atlantic America, Mesoamerica, Andean America, Brazil, Caribbean, Western Europe and Mediterranean, Central and Eastern Europe, West Africa, Kongo, Swahili Coast, Near East and East Africa, Central Asia, Afghanistan and India, Indochina, Malaya, East Asia, Japan

Spoiler Available Mercenaries :

Atlantic America: 0 thousands

Mesoamerica: 0 thousands

Andean America: 0 thousands

Brazil: 0 thousands

Caribbean: 0 thousands

Western Europe and Mediterranean: 140 thousands

Spoiler :

Regional: Infantrymen generally of lower quality imitators of the Swiss, 60 thousands
Free Empire of the German Nation: Landsknechts, Lower quality but more innovative imitators of the Swiss infantry, 8 thousands (Archduchy of Austria, Kalmar Union, Kingdom of the United Netherlands)
Most Serene Republic of Italy: Condottieri Companies, Infantrymen led by innovative commanders, 10 thousands (Kingdom of Bohemia-Bavaria, Kingdom of France, Holy Roman Empire)
Kingdom of the United Netherlands: Landsknechts, Lower quality but more innovative imitators of the Swiss infantry, 10 thousands (Kingdom of England, Free Empire of the German Nation, Kingdom of Ireland, Kalmar Union)
Holy Roman Empire: Landsknechts, Lower quality but more innovative imitators of the Swiss, 12 thousands (Kingdom of Bohemia-Bavaria, States of the Church, Kingdom of France, Most Serene Republic of Italy)
Kingdom of Scotland: Gallowglasses, Norse-Gaelic heavy infantry and swordsmen, 10 thousands (Grand Duchy of Brittany, Kingdom of France, Kingdom of Ireland, Kingdom of Wales)
Swiss Confederation: Swiss Mercenaries, Europe’s élite pikemen, Will not fight each other, 30 thousands (Kingdom of Bohemia-Bavaria, States of the Church, Kingdom of France)

Central and Eastern Europe: 60 thousands

Spoiler :

Regional: Generally light cavalry, 30 thousands
Hungarian Empire: Stratioti, Innovative light cavalry of mixed Albanian and Greek origin, 25 thousands (Kingdom of Bohemia-Bavaria, Commonwealth of Lithuania-Novgorod, Roman Empire)
Ottoman Empire: Stratioti, Innovative light cavalry of mixed and Albanian and Greek origin, 5 thousands (Chagatai Khanate)

West Africa: 0 thousands

Kongo: 0 thousands

Swahili Coast: 0 thousands

Near East and East Africa: 50 thousands

Spoiler :

Regional: Light cavalry of mostly Turkic but also Arabic origin, 20 thousands; Light infantry of mostly Arab and Christian origin, 30 thousands

Central Asia: 30 thousands

Spoiler :

Regional: Élite light cavalry of Turkic and Mongol origin, 20 thousands; Élite gunpowder infantry, 10 thousands

Afghanistan and India: 60 thousands

Spoiler :

Regional: Élite light cavalry of mixed Afghan, Arabic, and Turkic origin, 20 thousands; Light infantry of Hindu origin, 20 thousands
Chagatai Khanate: Élite light cavalry of Afghan origin, 20 thousands (Republic of Lahore, Ottoman Empire)

Indochina: 0 thousands

Malaya: 0 thousands

East Asia: 0 thousands

Japan: 30 thousands

Spoiler :

Ashikaga Shogunate of Japan: Ronin, Samurai élite heavy infantry that have been disgraced and left outside the Bushido system, 20 thousands; Ninja, Infantry specialising in alternative warfare tactics existing outside of the Bushido system, 10 thousands (Kingdom of Ryukyu)

Map:

Spoiler :

 

[alex994]

How will you determine which nations have good relations with other nations?

And out of curiosity, how would you have the Swiss Pikemen mercenaries not fight each other? Simply not have opposing nations recruit them?

 

[North King]

No, those opposing nations could recruit them, the recruits just would refuse to fight if you directed them at each other. Or at least, that's what I think he means.

 

[Stormbringer]

So, I'm about to start a NES and here are the rules. Comment please, I would like to make them as complete as possible before I actually start it.

The NES

Welcome everyone. It has been a very long time since I've ran a NES, over three years I believe, but I have some free time and a lot more experience now, and so I wanted to give this another go. As you will see while reading the rules this NES is not exactly like most others on the forum right now. It does not focus on rules or algorithms for combat and the economy, but on creating a story, or rather an alternative history, for this world. You way want to take a look at DP's Alternative Timeline Building Experiment for an idea of what this NES will be like. Now, players will not take "cultures" but nations in this NES, and we will have very basic stats, but the goal is the same - to create a very dynamic medium where we can create an alternative history.

Nations

Nations are pretty loosely defined for the purpose of this NES. Some may be the traditional nation-states, while others may be a collection of city-states or a tribal confederation or anything else of the like. I fully expect nations to rise and fall throughout this NES. Some will split into others, some will cease to exist completely, others may move geographically over time (like the Germanic tribes during the collapse of the Roman Empire). I hope that players who chose to participate in this will understand that this is part of history and will continue to contribute and participate with other nations that are rising or available at the time.

Players

You, the players in this NES, do not represent just the government of some given country. You are contributors to this NES and you have control not only over government policies but over cultural, religious, technological development of your nation and almost everything else that goes on in there. I hope that you will take this seriously and will dive into the possibilities of creating unique cultures and religions, guiding your nation through history. Most nations have gone through drastically different stages in their histories, sometimes jumping from one extreme to another, and I hope that this will give the players a chance to play around and experience a wide range of different situations with their nation.

Stories

Of course stories are very very much encouraged, as with every other NES. The more detailed information I have about the direction you would like to take your nation the more likely I am to carry out your intentions properly. Very often a lot of these plans can be open to other players and in these cases they should take the form of stories so that everyone can enjoy them. In cases where they cannot they should be sent as orders and I will be able to put the developments into updates. What I dislike is players sending massive orders with enormous descriptions of their plans for their country (and I am guilty of this as well) while not posting any of them as stories even though they would make great ones.

Orders

You will not have to spend too much time on orders. Sometimes they can be as short as a few sentences to give me some guidelines for the direction in which you would like your nation to develop, what you would like to emphasize and what is not so important for you this turn. I would like as much as possible of your creative spirit to take the form of stories, but I understand that for things like secret technological developments and military campaigns you will have to PM me orders. Just don't feel like you have to write a novel every time you have to send orders just because the stats are very vague.

Updates

There will be at least one update a week. There, I said it. At least one a week. Now, they may not necessarily be extremely long, but I will do my best to convey the direction in which the world is developing. If there is anything specific you would like in the updates let me know and I can probably do that.

Stats

Name - the name of your nation

Government - the description of the government of the nation, including how stable the government is, how much confidence the people have in the rulers, etc.

Military - the description of the army and navy (and air force) of the nation. It will include descriptions for the size, quality, organization, and other relevant factors for this.

Economy - the description of the economy, which sectors dominate economic activity in the country, how important trade is, how good the infrastructure of the country is, what kind of social safety net there is, etc.

Technology - the description of the level of technology that is in use in the nation. Most likely it will include the description of the quality of education and research performed in the nation as well.

Culture - the description of the culture(s) within the nation, important cultural trends, religion, and possibly education. Cultural animosities and grudges and other things like that.

Background - everything else that doesn't fit somewhere else.

Sample Stats

Name: Lichtenstein
Government: Parliamentary Democracy under a Constitutional Monarchy with a popular conservative government
Military: A dozen policemen and a national guard unit stationed in the Vatican
Economy: Relatively prosperous nation that depends almost entireley on tourism for income
Technology: Good education institutions throughout the country, abundant modern technology
Culture: Southern German Catholic nation with large Swiss influences
Background: The only remaining state part of the Holy Roman Empire

Any other questions? Post here or PM me.

 

[sp1023]

This is nice, but you might want to specify the costs of a unit, if there are any naval forces, etc. Also, what’s the setting?

 

[Stormbringer]

Leaning towards a fresh start setting, but not entirely sure yet. With Amon's NES dead there is not one on the forum anymore.

As for costs for units, just like the rules say, you don't "spend eco" or anything like that. If you want to focus on the military, the you will have a very strong military at the expense of other things.