New Unit: Challenger 2

[utahjazz7]

No problem.

 

[stormbind]

You are right in that the export market is slow, but that's because it's the most expensive MBT in the world and very few nations can justify the cost. Something like $4 million per unit, and you needs lots of tanks to reduce the cost of replacement parts and ammo (unique ammo - cannot use cheap US/Russian exports).

I think the seriously rich nation of Oman selected it because it outperformed the Abrams M1 in desert conditions.

You're right in saying the Challenger II is slower than an Abrams on the road, but you're wrong with regards to the firing rate and firing range. The Challenger II can destroy 8 targets in 60 seconds, and an Abrams M1A2 can destroy 6 targets in the same time.

As a bonus, Challenger II have stealth profile.

Edit: Vickers Defence Systems corrected me. It's a sustained rate of 8 targets per 40 seconds, by far the most destructive of any MBT currently available.

 

[stormbind]

Originally posted by utahjazz7
Warning! Warning! Warning!

I forgot to mention this before. The Challenger 2, like all of my units, runs slowly in-game...

I guess you fixed it because I'm having no problems and my PC is old and slow

 

[utahjazz7]

I don't remember fixing it. The attack seem to me to be a little slow, that's all.

 

[Rocoteh]

Challenger 2 in service:

United Kingdom 386
Oman 38

(The Military Balance 2002-2003)

 

[El Xadier]

Originally posted by stormbind
You are right in that the export market is slow, but that's because it's the most expensive MBT in the world and very few nations can justify the cost. Something like $4 million per unit, and you needs lots of tanks to reduce the cost of replacement parts and ammo.

A Challenger2 cost about 5,96 million pounds per unit

Originally posted by stormbind
As a bonus, Challenger II have stealth profile.
[/B]

What you mean with stealth profile?



Here a article about the best tank in the world:
10 January 2001
The Pentagon's gas turbine-powered M1 Abrams may be the first tank that comes to the minds of most Americans, but overall, Germany's Leopard 2 is the world's best.
In a new analysis of the world tank market, Forecast International/DMS finds that, based on an overall comparison in terms of lethality, fightability, mobility and survivability, the Leopard 2A6EX comes out on top. The annual tank analysis and ranking, the only one of its type available from open sources, is a product of Forecast International's Weapon Group.
Although the Leopard 2A6EX ranked above the M1 Abrams (in the A2 System Enhancement Package model), the gap between the two tanks remains exceedingly small. In this year's survey, the deciding factor was the Leopard 2's 55-calibre version of the Rh 120mm tank cannon and the formidable DM 53 long rod penetrating ammunition. The Abrams is slated to receive the same cannon, but not for several years.
New and improved fire control components, the addition of an auxiliary power unit, as well as overall performance helped push the Leopard 2 A6EX ahead of the M1A2 System Enhancement Package model in Forecast International's latest ranking. Even so, the M1A2 System Enhancement Package, which is bringing all M1 tanks to a single improved level, represents a major enhancement to the Abrams' already formidable proven fighting ability. Indeed, based on its superior performance during the Persian Gulf War, the Abrams stands at the head of the ranking in terms of combat performance.
In addition, the vacillating Russians aside, the M1 is still the only tank in production that firmly uses a vehicular gas turbine as its prime mover. The US Army recently selected the General Electric LV-100 vehicular gas turbine to re-power the Abrams.
Coming in at third place in the rankings is Japan's highly sophisticated Type 90, an amalgamation of German tank technology and Japanese expertise in advanced electronics. The Type 90 is followed by the Leclerc of France and the United Kingdom's Challenger 2, both in their latest versions.
Making a significant rise in the rankings this year is Israel's Merkava in the latest Mark III Baz model. Contributing to this rise in the standings is the enhanced armour protection and greatly improved fire control components of this latest version of the Merkava.
The latest analysis and ranking again has the omnipresent Russian tanks falling short of their Western counterparts, despite some recent major improvements as well as the continued lead by the Russians in active defence systems.
Forecast International/DMS Inc is a leading provider of Market Intelligence and Analyses in the areas of aerospace, defence, power systems and military electronics and specialises in long-range industry forecasts. (...) "

 

[stormbind]

Originally posted by El Xadier
A Challenger2 cost about 5,96 million pounds per unit

Bumping the cost yet higher in no way damaged my statement.

Originally posted by El Xadier
What you mean with stealth profile?

The turret has a stealth design making it hard to detect. The Challenger II is the original Challenger chassis with entirely new turret. This turret was actually developed and tested using a Leopard 2 chassis. This upgrade cost the British army £2.3 billion.

Vickers Defence Systems
Stealth is designed into the construction to reduce the probability of detection on the battlefield by visual, electronic and thermal means.

I never made mention of the Leopard 2 which I would concede is also a high quality weapon. The leading models of every major tank manufacturer are in direct competition so you would expect the differences to be small. You must note that general comparissons include weapons like the T-55 and Centurion (1945) which are still in service with some nations. When you compare a complete list of all possible MBT, the Challenger2/AbramsM1A2/Leopard2/T90/Leclerc are all going to come out pretty much the same (i.e. All are Modern Armour); you have to limit the comparisson to only 21st Century vehicles before any notable differences can be found.

The article you quoted is filled with qualitative opinions and lacks substance in the form of quantitive values or real world statistics (i.e. 0 Challenger 1 were taken out of action in Desert Storm, compared with 16 Abrams M1A1).

This is not the place for argument, but here's an article comparing all influencial modern tank designs and includes the opinions of some manufacturers: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=593

We can all agree: If you are American then the Abrams A2 will always be better, if you are German the Leopard II will be superior, and if you are British then the Challenger II is the greatest.

Regarding Gas Turbine versus Diesel. A respected engineer informs me that the Gas Turbine of Abrams M1A2 puts power before survivability, which is fine for invading nations that are not expected to return fire (i.e. Afganistan/Iraq) but would be fatally flawed if deployed against other modern weapons.

 

[stormbind]

I don't like to whine because it sounds unappreciative, which I am not! I'm happy to see a Challenger 2, honest!

So I hope this is only constructive, but I think the turret is too short. Comparing these images...




Now I know these are different views, but they ain't the same.

Useful links, no schematic:
British Army: Challenger 2
Vickers Defence Systems: Challenger 2 (also brochure gives a "feel" to the vehicle that may help)

 

[Joolz]

nice looking unit, it would be nice to see a warrior along side it though

 

[SweetParamania]

The reason they are trialled there is because the Brits do training in some of those areas.

 

[utahjazz7]

Originally posted by SweetParamania
The reason they are trialled there is because the Brits do training in some of those areas.

The page I got my information from said that the Challenger being tested in Greece and Qatar is a Challenger 2E, designed for the export market. It doesn't say if any were bought or not though. Using the tank for Greece and the Arabs was just a suggestion in case someone wanted to use it for more than one civ.

 

[mgbx4]

HEY CAN SOME ONE TELL ME WHERE I CAN SEE THE MILITARY BALANCE 2002-2003?? AND WHERE CAN I DOWNLOAD THE 3D MAX??AND THE CHARACTER STUDIO PLUG IN? NICE WORK

 

[thestonesfan]

3D Max is a very expensive program, so I doubt you can download it anywhere. There might be a trial program somewhere, though.