New Version - April 15th (v. 4/15)

[Gazebo]

Exacly. We could just make a warning anywhere, I don't know, in loading screen or just in mod's description.

Although I understand that you wanted to reduce fake bug reports. I need to prepare to lose even more time in civ5 as I often load when I stumble on something that I didn't know before (or just to quicksave on first turn and generate new map if I find my starting position boring).

Spain change isn't well but I assume that it's only before we invent something good for them so no problem

Other changes are very good (especially reduced pop loss on conquer, great thanks!)

It wasn't an ideal solution, however people generally do not read instructions/warnings (you have no idea how many PMs I get with questions/problems that I answer with, essentially, RTFM). I see it as a necessary evil. Yes, you'll spend more time loading/reloading civ to get a proper start, but the end result will be a stable game with proper saves and loads, and also fewer bug reports for me!

Speaking of which, aside from a few mentioned CTDs (most likely related to E&D use, mind you), seems this is a fairly stable build thus far. Let's hope!

Also, just to be clear, the Spanish UA above is not 'final,' it is simply something to make Spain slightly less RNG-dependent in the meantime.

G

 

[joosegoose25]

Speaking of which, aside from a few mentioned CTDs (most likely related to E&D use, mind you), seems this is a fairly stable build thus far. Let's hope!

FWIW, the main reason I use E&D at all at this point is because it creates another gold sink. I always have so much gold floating around with E&D to give me high-priced purchase options, I can't imagine what I would do with my gold without E&D.

 

[vyyt]

However, aren't people just going to click exit to menu and load from there instead?

Yes, and if I am not mistaken, this is exactly what you are supposed to do. When you exit to the main menu, the mod settings get flushed and default game settings are loaded. Then when you click "mods" before loading a save, the mod settings are loaded from the scratch (this is why you have to wait twice while the game is "initializing data" - or whatever the message says). So this way should be safe - you do not have to quit the game to desktop.

Further to what Gazebo said about people not reading instructions, the tricky thing about loading from within the game and breaking lua is, that you usually do not get a CTD, the glitches are more subtle and hard to spot - even for the player. Typically you get problems with UI and representing the in-game numbers correctly. This was the reason why the load button was removed in CEP - people were reporting the numbers for culture, gold, etc. not adding up, tooltips on terrain suddenly disappearing mid-game and other random stuff like that. Such bugs are almost impossible to track, because you often do not notice them in the beginning and you never know if they were caused by a reload or by something in the mod. And if you ask the players if they had reloaded from within the game, they would probably not remember anymore.

A little secret: the hotkey for loading a quicksave (I cannot remember - is it F6?) should work even if the load button is removed (at least it did in CEP). But you really should load from the main menu to be sure that you do not screw your game up.

 

[DLimited]

I've had 60 pop cities with 0 disorder unhappiness, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

Recently? Because I have a 35pop capital during Medieval-Renaissance Era with 3+ Disorder with Armories and Constabularies built and a pikeman (I think) stationed. Unhappiness breakdown tells me I need 113 Combat Strength for 0 Disorder, literally impossible at this point in time and still difficult during modern era (that's 2.5 eras ahead). Yes I'm techlead, yes I have literally every building built that I can build. I wrote a more detailed breakdown in the last thread.

I have not yet tried this version, and wanted to ask before I switch.

 

[Gazebo]

Recently? Because I have a 35pop capital during Medieval-Renaissance Era with 3+ Disorder with Armories and Constabularies built and a pikeman (I think) stationed. Unhappiness breakdown tells me I need 113 Combat Strength for 0 Disorder, literally impossible at this point in time and still difficult during modern era (that's 2.5 eras ahead). Yes I'm techlead, yes I have literally every building built that I can build. I wrote a more detailed breakdown in the last thread.

I have not yet tried this version, and wanted to ask before I switch.

To be clear, you are rarely going to be 100% devoid of unhappiness in a city. IF a city is large, some elements, like disorder, are going to appear. That's natural, and intended. The key is minimization, not elimination.

G

 

[joosegoose25]

When this project eventually hits a "completed" stage (and things like a multiplayer pack are possibly attempted), would it be possible to not have to go through the mod menu at all? Even if this was the case, would it still be irrelevant in terms of reloading ingame due to the custom DLL?

 

[Gazebo]

When this project eventually hits a "completed" stage (and things like a multiplayer pack are possibly attempted), would it be possible to not have to go through the mod menu at all? Even if this was the case, would it still be irrelevant in terms of reloading ingame due to the custom DLL?

I can't answer that question easily, as we haven't tested it at all. If we are ever able to make a working multiplayer version, it will load when the game itself loads, so can assume for now that it would work like vanilla civ.

G

 

[joosegoose25]

I can't answer that question easily, as we haven't tested it at all. If we are ever able to make a working multiplayer version, it will load when the game itself loads, so can assume for now that it would work like vanilla civ.

G

That's all I wanted to know Nothing remotely close to a guarantee obviously, but it's nice to know there's theoretically a chance.

 

[yrug1o9l]

This patch solved my unhappiness crisis.
Thank you, Gazebo.

 

[Shadzy19]

Great stuff!! Thanks for the update.

The only things I dont like are:

Spain:
New UA (test): Receive Gold bonuses (400) for discovering Natural Wonders. Happiness and tile yields from Natural Wonders increased by 50%. All Military Units receive the Reconnaissance Promotion for free.

For Spain I would much rather prefer the old bonus and reveal the closest natural wonder that is not in CS lands, u have a better chance of taking it with your second or third city and u get the extra gold from the discovery off the initial national wonder which opens up more paths to take when starting the game.
This change feels more like a nerf to me.

Reduced population loss from city conquest to 20% (from 50%) base

Why? Losing city's should hurt.

H'wacha now gains Blitz, but has ranged damage reduced to 18 to compensate (rocket salvo)

H'wacha change isnt bad imo, Korea is a defensive science civ so making their UU shine at defense isnt that bad, I would go further and give them indirect fire aswell to boost their bonus to compensate for their weaknesses.

What is missing for me?
1) Nerf to wide, now that trade routes arent counted any more (like it should be) this actually got buffed! More is always better atm, even pressing a city inbetween other city's to take 3-5 decent tiles is still worth it for the tiles and some specialists.

2) Policy's, many are still lackluster / boring / bad compared to others, im practicly always picking the same stuff.
Can we open the discussion again for some changes about them?

Il give new version a go in few days once my current game ends.

 

[Funak]

What is missing for me?
1) Nerf to wide, now that trade routes arent counted any more (like it should be) this actually got buffed! More is always better atm, even pressing a city inbetween other city's to take 3-5 decent tiles is still worth it for the tiles and some specialists.

There seemed to be a pretty equal split about people complaining about how wide was unplayable and how compact was unplayable before the patch was released, so I'm not suprised this is how it ended up.
The games I played I had no problem with either, but I guess that might have been luck.

2) Policy's, many are still lackluster / boring / bad compared to others, im practicly always picking the same stuff.
Can we open the discussion again for some changes about them?

Go ahead and open them, I'm tired of trying to lead conversations by myself, if you want change, go for it yourself

 

[joosegoose25]

There seemed to be a pretty equal split about people complaining about how wide was unplayable and how compact was unplayable before the patch was released, so I'm not suprised this is how it ended up.
The games I played I had no problem with either, but I guess that might have been luck.


Go ahead and open them, I'm tired of trying to lead conversations by myself, if you want change, go for it yourself

I replied to one of your posts on the first page with some ideas, any thoughts?

 

[sleepyx732]

I lost two of my cities early in the game by Carthage, but they were in good spots, so they already had 10/12 population. Both of these cities defaulted to 2 population after getting conquered. I'm gonna change the CITY_CAPTURE_POPULATION_PERCENT value to 80 as it seems to be reducing population to 20%, instead of by 20%.

 

[Shadzy19]

There seemed to be a pretty equal split about people complaining about how wide was unplayable and how compact was unplayable before the patch was released, so I'm not suprised this is how it ended up.
The games I played I had no problem with either, but I guess that might have been luck.

I can't speak for other people but I rarely or never run into happiness problems, maybe its because of the policy's i pick.

Go ahead and open them, I'm tired of trying to lead conversations by myself, if you want change, go for it yourself

In all honesty, I just checked all the policy trees again and I was a bit harsh, the thing is my last 10 games or so I have practicly always went might - peity - rationalism because of the benefits for wide and the big amounts of happiness u get next to all the other bonuses.
The times I didnt went this path I regretted not taking this path.

Specially peity is way to strong, I will always take this tree atm no matter the circumstances and if I have a religion or not.
With simply a shrine and temple every normal city will get 9 faith, 4 culture, 2 production and 2 gold and after a while u will get a monastery and 1 of the follower buildings aswell adding more resources and 2 happiness per city aswell, its just to good to pass up.

Once il find some spare time (probably next week) il start a topic with the few policys that imo could use some tweaking / rebalancing.

 

[joosegoose25]

I lost two of my cities early in the game by Carthage, but they were in good spots, so they already had 10/12 population. Both of these cities defaulted to 2 population after getting conquered. I'm gonna change the CITY_CAPTURE_POPULATION_PERCENT value to 80 as it seems to be reducing population to 20%, instead of by 20%.

Do report back if/when changing it produces the desired effect.

 

[sleepyx732]

Do report back if/when changing it produces the desired effect.

It did. I conquered a city after making the change and the population went down to 5 from 7.

 

[arnoldlcl]

Where do I find CITY_CAPTURE_POPULATION_PERCENT so that I can make this change too? I thought it would be in CoreDefines.xml in the CBP but apparently not

 

[phantomaxl1207]

coredefines.sql

Close

It did. I conquered a city after making the change and the population went down to 5 from 7.

Good

 

[Gazebo]

Silly Firaxis, reversing their XML in the DLL. I'll flip the 20% to 80% and push out a quick update tomorrow.

As always, happy to look at rebalancing policies/UAs, though let's do our absolute utmost to use existing functions instead of from-scratch changes.

For Spain I would much rather prefer the old bonus and reveal the closest natural wonder that is not in CS lands, u have a better chance of taking it with your second or third city and u get the extra gold from the discovery off the initial national wonder which opens up more paths to take when starting the game.

My rationale against this stands: this benefits the player far more than the AI, and is thus a no-go (the NW reveal UA element).
G

 

[Delekhan]

This looks like an awesome update. Everything is great, so I'll point out the changes I find odd.

1. Hiwacha - I can't imagine building this as Korea. It nerfs their anti-city capabilities quite a bit, and as an anti-unit siege weapon it still suffers from having to set up.

2. The Golden Age hut is a fun-killing scourge in my opinion, and the sensible move here is to eliminate it outright.

3. This is in response to Funak's objection to the population-loss-from-conquest change: while it may have been reduced a bit too much, it does serve the purpose of slowing down conquest a bit. Before, the 50% pop reduction made rolling an entire region super easy, since unhappiness comes from population. Now you're stuck with more population, and fewer buildings to manage their unhappiness. Plus it takes longer to properly raze a city, which I think is good.