Acken
Deity
It ended up taking a bit too long at -70% production due to supply limit xD
News: TSG87 Announcement
- Thread starter leif erikson
- Start date
It ended up taking a bit too long at -70% production due to supply limit xD
budweiser
King of the Beers
Nah. I took 1 cap last night with 2 arty, but being sloppy my rifles got pwned. I'm counting on at least 1 arty kill right away that's why I am advocating commerce/mobilization to buy men while I hammer out my production centers for the big build up. A Hanse and some trade routes will get the +30% in no time and maybe alliances.
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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Have you all had any success with bribery to get folks to attack the tech leaders?
Yeesh, 75 turns looks like it may be the target ... crazy. Not even sure how that's possible, I guess a lot will depend on the opponent set and their distance from us. I would hope that early takedown of the Korea/Babylon/Siam/Darius/Whoever would buy a dozen or so more turns ...
Cromagnus
Deity
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The AI is pretty bad at focusing on victory. I don't know that the target is 75 turns, unless you're shooting for 1st place or something.
It's about shifting priorities IMHO:
Priority #1: Prevent AI victory
Priority #2: Secure your own victory
Sadly #1 is rarely relevant in BNW. I'm glad it IS for a change.
It's about shifting priorities IMHO:
Priority #1: Prevent AI victory
Priority #2: Secure your own victory
Sadly #1 is rarely relevant in BNW. I'm glad it IS for a change.
I think I'm going to try a test game opening 5 policies into Order -- getting both Five-Year Plan and Party Leadership immediately. It seems like bonus hammers could be huge if you only expect the game to last ~75 turns. Seems like you need to be building stuff FAST.
Then I'll try Spaceflight Pioneers with the next policy and maybe plant both great people.
Then I'll try Spaceflight Pioneers with the next policy and maybe plant both great people.
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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The AI is pretty bad at focusing on victory. I don't know that the target is 75 turns, unless you're shooting for 1st place or something.
It's about shifting priorities IMHO:
Priority #1: Prevent AI victory
Priority #2: Secure your own victory
Sadly #1 is rarely relevant in BNW. I'm glad it IS for a change.
#1 would be a helluva lot easier on a Pangea map, sadly (or not!).
I haven't played this more than 5 turns yet, so I'm not sure how fast one can get to X-Coms. Depending on how stupid the AI is, doing AL-pillaging may end up being key, and X-Coms are going to be great for that.
I am going to give the Order 7/pop strat a try for my first go-around. Hoping that the bigger cities will ramp up early science sufficiently that it makes it worth it.
TSG87 IMMORTAL BISMARK MODERN START
Early strategising : Autocracy is obviously the superior choice among ideologies. Almost everything in there is worth taking. Compare that to freedom that only gives 6 units and a bit of production. Or order that gives growth and research (notice you don't have enough tiles to work for 7 pops and even at 4 you are almost starving) while we aim for very fast aggression, this is useless.
Cheaper unit buying in this mode makes me think going huge economy and buying / upgrading armies is the way to go. Workers cost 50gold for instance (authocracy), never worth building them.
Have to settle one of the 3 settlers on the spot turn 1 to get free ideology points , else you lose the 2 free points since AIs will pick all ideologies before you. (EDIT: after doing a test run, found out you can't get free ideology points no matter when you settle, so feel free to move to coast)
Research : flight, steal others. I think there's a fair chance most AIs will go replaceable parts into electronics, entering atomic era through radar. What do you think?
Build : Try to settle on coasts and make cargo ships first, 6 cargo ships for 3 cities, that's 2 food route each so 7 food. - From there workers to upgrade terrain faster, and military units for a first attack. Capital should do happiness (else 3rd settler will put you in the red, don't forget it's 7 unhappy per city not the usual 4), ironworks, and NC -> research buildings fast. All of those are available from the start. Scouting is very important, will have to make a couple of naval units very early too.
Policies wise : One point into honor to get free units from UA seems obligatory. 3 points into commerce for cheaper buying is very attractive, but it can be delayed. So i am thinking of opening honor, opening commerce(big ben!), then unlocking 25 production to military units from autocracy, 33% cheaper buying, and double spy speed. Then finish autocracy and see from there depending on the situation. For sure the 25% more strength for 50 turns will be a must for finishing early.
What to spend those first 200 gold on : Workers. Buying tiles for luxuries. Ideally settle on the luxuries so you can drop that 3rd city asap.
What to spend money on early : Buying a couple of culturals will probably have the most benefit.
Aggression : You probably have less than 30 turns to build up before attacking so choosing what to build and what to sacrifice will be key. Early scouting will define army composition (coastal AI vs inland). But I think having oil in starting position or not will dictate decisions. Also AI will probably have planes early, so going for some anti air sound good. Either that or allying the oil CS and deprive the AIs from getting that. Orr getting 2 fighters for every 4 bombers to do sweeps.
Running GP for merchants right from the start sounds like a good idea I think. Allying culturals, which will be 95% of your culture i think. (Modern era bonus!) But also CS might be your only source of early Oil, and most of your happiness. There's probably enough culture from CCS to get about 10 policies after the initial 5.
Seeing as the savegame is not yet available, i had time to do a quick quick test run today :
AI Space program started 363. That's 35 turns in.
Most AIs had space program by turn 385. That's 60 turns in. So expect *someone* to win space victory by 400, if you attack some of them, some others will finish so you need to be quick. Killing a couple of civs very early, teching, then attacking again. Don't expect to finish the game with artillery, because you will eventually see 130-170+ strength cities and some even close to 200 near the end.
You can possibly try to slow them down by bribing and causing wars among the AI, but it will be expensive. Another reason to focus on economy and gold. I am thinking 6 trade routes for food early for 30 turns, then switch at least 2 of them to gold, while getting techs for 2 other gold trade routes for a total of 4. That should get you about 80 gold per turn. And 20% production bonus from special building.
So it looks like we must plan to win by turn 390-400 (technically turn 75) at the latest or risk losing to a space victory. For this reason I feel that finding a way to kill (or maim) an AI or two in the first 30 turns could be vital. Also settling a 4th city on the other continent (and rush buying an airport) so you can upgrade your arties to rockets without delay seems very sound. By the end i was able to use airports to send giant robots to the other continent.
By the end I had all the techs and was into future. My research was overkill i think (450+, around 300 seems sufficient to get what you need), most important is to reach rocket arty and bombers (later stealth bombers, extra xp from baracks/etc is huge help, and they should all be set on killing units bonuses) asap and get fast moving melees to cap cities. Bombers to kill unit spam with help of rockets, then it's easy. It will be pretty important to bribe for DOWS before moving in as you don't want to deal with the full army of whoever you are attacking. Also as soon as someone starts space, bribing for DOWS to slow him down while you get there is worth every penny.
Early strategising : Autocracy is obviously the superior choice among ideologies. Almost everything in there is worth taking. Compare that to freedom that only gives 6 units and a bit of production. Or order that gives growth and research (notice you don't have enough tiles to work for 7 pops and even at 4 you are almost starving) while we aim for very fast aggression, this is useless.
Cheaper unit buying in this mode makes me think going huge economy and buying / upgrading armies is the way to go. Workers cost 50gold for instance (authocracy), never worth building them.
Have to settle one of the 3 settlers on the spot turn 1 to get free ideology points , else you lose the 2 free points since AIs will pick all ideologies before you. (EDIT: after doing a test run, found out you can't get free ideology points no matter when you settle, so feel free to move to coast)
Research : flight, steal others. I think there's a fair chance most AIs will go replaceable parts into electronics, entering atomic era through radar. What do you think?
Build : Try to settle on coasts and make cargo ships first, 6 cargo ships for 3 cities, that's 2 food route each so 7 food. - From there workers to upgrade terrain faster, and military units for a first attack. Capital should do happiness (else 3rd settler will put you in the red, don't forget it's 7 unhappy per city not the usual 4), ironworks, and NC -> research buildings fast. All of those are available from the start. Scouting is very important, will have to make a couple of naval units very early too.
Policies wise : One point into honor to get free units from UA seems obligatory. 3 points into commerce for cheaper buying is very attractive, but it can be delayed. So i am thinking of opening honor, opening commerce(big ben!), then unlocking 25 production to military units from autocracy, 33% cheaper buying, and double spy speed. Then finish autocracy and see from there depending on the situation. For sure the 25% more strength for 50 turns will be a must for finishing early.
What to spend those first 200 gold on : Workers. Buying tiles for luxuries. Ideally settle on the luxuries so you can drop that 3rd city asap.
What to spend money on early : Buying a couple of culturals will probably have the most benefit.
Aggression : You probably have less than 30 turns to build up before attacking so choosing what to build and what to sacrifice will be key. Early scouting will define army composition (coastal AI vs inland). But I think having oil in starting position or not will dictate decisions. Also AI will probably have planes early, so going for some anti air sound good. Either that or allying the oil CS and deprive the AIs from getting that. Orr getting 2 fighters for every 4 bombers to do sweeps.
Running GP for merchants right from the start sounds like a good idea I think. Allying culturals, which will be 95% of your culture i think. (Modern era bonus!) But also CS might be your only source of early Oil, and most of your happiness. There's probably enough culture from CCS to get about 10 policies after the initial 5.
Seeing as the savegame is not yet available, i had time to do a quick quick test run today :
AI Space program started 363. That's 35 turns in.
Most AIs had space program by turn 385. That's 60 turns in. So expect *someone* to win space victory by 400, if you attack some of them, some others will finish so you need to be quick. Killing a couple of civs very early, teching, then attacking again. Don't expect to finish the game with artillery, because you will eventually see 130-170+ strength cities and some even close to 200 near the end.
You can possibly try to slow them down by bribing and causing wars among the AI, but it will be expensive. Another reason to focus on economy and gold. I am thinking 6 trade routes for food early for 30 turns, then switch at least 2 of them to gold, while getting techs for 2 other gold trade routes for a total of 4. That should get you about 80 gold per turn. And 20% production bonus from special building.
So it looks like we must plan to win by turn 390-400 (technically turn 75) at the latest or risk losing to a space victory. For this reason I feel that finding a way to kill (or maim) an AI or two in the first 30 turns could be vital. Also settling a 4th city on the other continent (and rush buying an airport) so you can upgrade your arties to rockets without delay seems very sound. By the end i was able to use airports to send giant robots to the other continent.
By the end I had all the techs and was into future. My research was overkill i think (450+, around 300 seems sufficient to get what you need), most important is to reach rocket arty and bombers (later stealth bombers, extra xp from baracks/etc is huge help, and they should all be set on killing units bonuses) asap and get fast moving melees to cap cities. Bombers to kill unit spam with help of rockets, then it's easy. It will be pretty important to bribe for DOWS before moving in as you don't want to deal with the full army of whoever you are attacking. Also as soon as someone starts space, bribing for DOWS to slow him down while you get there is worth every penny.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Workers can be built in 2 turns, there is no need to buy them. The money is for tiles only.
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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Gave it my first real attempt, rerolled until I got a plains coastal start (attached).
Went with the uber-Order attempt, for two cities at pop 7 and faster factories.
Strategy given I had three coastal cities (who knows if that will happen in the game) was to build some workers, aqueducts, then universities, move as fast as possible to Plastics and then Rocket Artillery and then X-Coms/Missile Cruisers.
Hit X-Coms/Missile Cruisers 45 turns in (popped the Order GS for plastics, used two GEs, one for Kremlin, one for Christi, B-gate was already gone) and now I've got 40 units, most of them missile cruisers and X-Coms, ready to bring pain. Handful of Rocket Artillery and Mobile SAMS as well.
50 turns in, Korea was taken. RA are just good. Missile Cruisers are even better. Moving on to whoever is nearby, will buy Airports for fast transport as needed, but over half the cities on the map are within 3 spaces of the coast, so Missile Cruisers/X-Coms should be able to do all the heavy lifting.
BTW, I have the tech lead by about 6 techs. It's possible that next turn some jerk will build Apollo but so far so good. If they do, they'll be visited by about one X-Com a turn until my fleet of missile cruisers can get there.
The only thing I'm sure of from this is that IF at least two cities are coastal, maximizing science and going for missile cruisers and X-Coms is very strong. Can't say the Order strat is necessary best as I haven't tried anything else yet. But given that at turn 50 I am rubbing up against the unit cap (40 units of 44 or something) I don't think there's any need to be buying units ... and right now, at least, while +25% to warring would be nice, it's hardly necessary. X-Com > Infantry.
EDIT: I might have missed it, but it may just be a big fluke that nobody has built Apollo after turn 50. But given Missile Cruisers can get to just about any spot on the map with 7 turns, I am hoping that if I know I have a 20-turn clock running, I can do what needs to be done.
Went with the uber-Order attempt, for two cities at pop 7 and faster factories.
Strategy given I had three coastal cities (who knows if that will happen in the game) was to build some workers, aqueducts, then universities, move as fast as possible to Plastics and then Rocket Artillery and then X-Coms/Missile Cruisers.
Hit X-Coms/Missile Cruisers 45 turns in (popped the Order GS for plastics, used two GEs, one for Kremlin, one for Christi, B-gate was already gone) and now I've got 40 units, most of them missile cruisers and X-Coms, ready to bring pain. Handful of Rocket Artillery and Mobile SAMS as well.
50 turns in, Korea was taken. RA are just good. Missile Cruisers are even better. Moving on to whoever is nearby, will buy Airports for fast transport as needed, but over half the cities on the map are within 3 spaces of the coast, so Missile Cruisers/X-Coms should be able to do all the heavy lifting.
BTW, I have the tech lead by about 6 techs. It's possible that next turn some jerk will build Apollo but so far so good. If they do, they'll be visited by about one X-Com a turn until my fleet of missile cruisers can get there.
The only thing I'm sure of from this is that IF at least two cities are coastal, maximizing science and going for missile cruisers and X-Coms is very strong. Can't say the Order strat is necessary best as I haven't tried anything else yet. But given that at turn 50 I am rubbing up against the unit cap (40 units of 44 or something) I don't think there's any need to be buying units ... and right now, at least, while +25% to warring would be nice, it's hardly necessary. X-Com > Infantry.
EDIT: I might have missed it, but it may just be a big fluke that nobody has built Apollo after turn 50. But given Missile Cruisers can get to just about any spot on the map with 7 turns, I am hoping that if I know I have a 20-turn clock running, I can do what needs to be done.
If AIs are too close together they will do more wars and get apollo later. But there's almost always a couple isolated in a corner who'll have enough quiet to run ahead with it. The map will tell you everything, once you scout everyone the closeness + who's who might help identify the run away early and focus him early.
And you are right, no need to buy units. In my test run my capital was making one rocket arty / stealth bomber a turn. All money was going for upgrades, allying cultural CSs, and buying tiles since border expansion is almost non existant.
The difficulty for me was killing everyone before turn 400. I can kill 3 or 4, but never all 7 and someone ends up finishing space.
The solution is probably to hit left and right to maim and delay. Going for mobility is the right approach, but it's too situational, if you are facing a big continent with inland capitals (like i had in my test game) you won't be able to war from the sea all the way through.
And you are right, no need to buy units. In my test run my capital was making one rocket arty / stealth bomber a turn. All money was going for upgrades, allying cultural CSs, and buying tiles since border expansion is almost non existant.
The difficulty for me was killing everyone before turn 400. I can kill 3 or 4, but never all 7 and someone ends up finishing space.
The solution is probably to hit left and right to maim and delay. Going for mobility is the right approach, but it's too situational, if you are facing a big continent with inland capitals (like i had in my test game) you won't be able to war from the sea all the way through.
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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For whatever it's worth, tried on another plains coastal map and made it to X-Coms by turn 45 using both Autocracy and Order -- Order was a little better, got a GE as well, but overall about the same. Don't need to start at pop 7, with cargo ships you'll get there extremely fast. Guessing with better GP management turn 40 is very possible with Order.
A couple people built Apollo but I was ahead in tech, and would hope that building 1.5 X-Coms/Missile Cruisers a turn would allow me by turn 55-60 to severely harass the top two tech leaders.
One Autocracy drawback I had that I didn't have with either of the Order games is a -12 happiness hit from ideology -- yikes! It may be worthwhile to grab whatever ideology is most common between Order and Autocracy. You don't lose any SP by waiting to plant your first city.
A couple people built Apollo but I was ahead in tech, and would hope that building 1.5 X-Coms/Missile Cruisers a turn would allow me by turn 55-60 to severely harass the top two tech leaders.
One Autocracy drawback I had that I didn't have with either of the Order games is a -12 happiness hit from ideology -- yikes! It may be worthwhile to grab whatever ideology is most common between Order and Autocracy. You don't lose any SP by waiting to plant your first city.
KloppsKopp
Chieftain
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Yeah, but remeber you can have those 6 free(!) units with combat bonus on turn 2... it's perfectly viable to eliminate your nearest neighbour within the first 10 turns, giving you the power to steamroll your continent, or at least steal some workers very early and keep your neighbours from expanding. This also reduces the warmonger-penality (you can eliminate a civ before even meeting the second continent).
Add the fact you'll start with unimproved size 4 cities, many lower-tier-buildings already constructed. With Freedom, you can start working those slots immediately, don't have to hoard the food till your workers built some farms. And then, think about hanse's synergy with peace treaty...
I agree that Freedom is generally not the best choice for domination-victories, but with a modern start you'll have to hurry up to have a chance winning by domination at all. Freedom kicks in directly from the start, and those early slots allow you to chop wonders.
I tried this on Emperor, worked pretty well... 3 cities pumping tanks or bombers every 1 or 2 turns when I met the world congress was founded is pretty tough.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Freedom is an interesting choice because you can get the Statue of Liberty quickly, too, as well as the +2 science for each specialist. And you won't need to buy that many tiles. 
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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I'll be interested to see the mix of early combat/units vs late. It's mostly because I'm lazy but I'm definitely in the wait-until-later camp, bombers and panzers are just not going to cut it after turn 50 IMO.
(Problem with Stealth Bombers is the range of 20 may hurt a bit, plus you need copious AL. A stock of 5-10 of them though will probably work well.)
(Problem with Stealth Bombers is the range of 20 may hurt a bit, plus you need copious AL. A stock of 5-10 of them though will probably work well.)
Cromagnus
Deity
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It's hard to justify it with so many pressing needs, but the double strategics, +5science+5food from Autocracy makes it possible to field 2x the units... I'm not sure any other policy makes as much of a positive difference with regards to effective military. In my test game that was +14 oil, +8 uranium, +10 aluminum, even before I started attacking....
This allows you to attack with 3 armies simultaneously. Everyone has the Manhattan Project, everyone has the Apollo Program, but ain't no one got aluminum or uranium because my XCOM own the world... for now. I was at 20 units OVER the unit cap and still generating one XCOM every 3 turns. (70% max production penalty at 7 units OVER, but Hanse gave 35%, for a net loss of only 35%)
I haven't won yet but even if the AI catches up, I don't see how I could lose at this point. However, this is clearly sub-optimal. I didn't even start the war until 50 turns. I think you can win this type of map in 60 turns.
CS Allies are tremendously valuable... +24 culture/turn when you're at 13 base is.... a lot. They also have tons of advanced units, meaning if you *don't* ally them, you have to deal with them. Plus, if you don't ally them you risk losing via diplo. I think Patronage/Freedom might be stronger than people are realizing. I've seen CS capture AI cities in my games.
So many ways to skin this cat. Which will win?
This allows you to attack with 3 armies simultaneously. Everyone has the Manhattan Project, everyone has the Apollo Program, but ain't no one got aluminum or uranium because my XCOM own the world... for now. I was at 20 units OVER the unit cap and still generating one XCOM every 3 turns. (70% max production penalty at 7 units OVER, but Hanse gave 35%, for a net loss of only 35%)
I haven't won yet but even if the AI catches up, I don't see how I could lose at this point. However, this is clearly sub-optimal. I didn't even start the war until 50 turns. I think you can win this type of map in 60 turns.
CS Allies are tremendously valuable... +24 culture/turn when you're at 13 base is.... a lot. They also have tons of advanced units, meaning if you *don't* ally them, you have to deal with them. Plus, if you don't ally them you risk losing via diplo. I think Patronage/Freedom might be stronger than people are realizing. I've seen CS capture AI cities in my games.
So many ways to skin this cat. Which will win?
Cromagnus
Deity
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Random Modern Start facts I've compiled from a test run:
You can't build any (World) Wonders from eras prior to the industrial except Uffizi. Not sure why the exception was made for Uffizi and not Forbidden Palace. This devalues all policy trees prior to Aesthetics.
Gold purchasing, production and unit upgrades are only 30% of normal cost.
Piety, Faith and religion are out of the game, meaning that religious CS are useless, and all trees which allow faith purchasing are devalued.
Tradition: Free Opera Houses instead of Monuments. And with free amphitheatres & monuments, +1 culture is worthless.
Liberty: Culture cost reduction can be taken before any expos are planted. Free GE can be *almost* immediately used to build a Wonder. Free Settler starts at 4 pop with buildings. This is significantly increased value over 1 pop with no buildings. The Free Worker is immediately useful because that Free Settler needs someone to improve tiles immediately. (4 workers for 4 cities)
Honor: You can't build melee units, so this tree is further devalued. Barracks are free, so you get less value out of Military Caste.
Patronage:
* You can take Consulates on t0 to have 20 influence by t20, 25 by t25 if you Pledge.
Commerce:
* Mercantilism yields immediate science because of the free market.
* Landsknechts are fairly useless by this stage of the game and expensive to upgrade, even if what they upgraded into wasn't somewhat useless...
* Reduced road maintenance is of reduced value on Continents, especially since your empire will be mostly connected via harbors. However, roads are extremely expensive on t1 because it's the modern era, so it does help somewhat.
Exploration:
* Immediate +1 happiness and gold for each coastal city because of the free lighthouse.
* +4 culture/production/gold for East India Company can be had almost immediately because of markets in every city. This has good synergy with Hanse, as does the +4 gold from Treasure Fleets.
* The Free GA with +3 total movement can explore the map relatively quickly if you don't go the Satellites route.
Rationalism:
* Immediate +1 gold for each library
* RA benefit can be had immediately
* +1 science from trading posts can be had immediately
* Immediate +10% science
* Free tech can be had almost immediately
The AI also exhibit unusual behavior with late starts. Gandhi DoW'd a CS almost immediately.
Tile-purchasing cost and CS bribe costs are not reduced, unlike most other costs, meaning that both of these are very bad uses of money, as are research agreements, IMHO. Given that many things are 70% discounted, paying full price for anything *es no bueno*.
You can't build any (World) Wonders from eras prior to the industrial except Uffizi. Not sure why the exception was made for Uffizi and not Forbidden Palace. This devalues all policy trees prior to Aesthetics.
Gold purchasing, production and unit upgrades are only 30% of normal cost.
Piety, Faith and religion are out of the game, meaning that religious CS are useless, and all trees which allow faith purchasing are devalued.
Tradition: Free Opera Houses instead of Monuments. And with free amphitheatres & monuments, +1 culture is worthless.
Liberty: Culture cost reduction can be taken before any expos are planted. Free GE can be *almost* immediately used to build a Wonder. Free Settler starts at 4 pop with buildings. This is significantly increased value over 1 pop with no buildings. The Free Worker is immediately useful because that Free Settler needs someone to improve tiles immediately. (4 workers for 4 cities)
Honor: You can't build melee units, so this tree is further devalued. Barracks are free, so you get less value out of Military Caste.
Patronage:
* You can take Consulates on t0 to have 20 influence by t20, 25 by t25 if you Pledge.
Commerce:
* Mercantilism yields immediate science because of the free market.
* Landsknechts are fairly useless by this stage of the game and expensive to upgrade, even if what they upgraded into wasn't somewhat useless...
* Reduced road maintenance is of reduced value on Continents, especially since your empire will be mostly connected via harbors. However, roads are extremely expensive on t1 because it's the modern era, so it does help somewhat.
Exploration:
* Immediate +1 happiness and gold for each coastal city because of the free lighthouse.
* +4 culture/production/gold for East India Company can be had almost immediately because of markets in every city. This has good synergy with Hanse, as does the +4 gold from Treasure Fleets.
* The Free GA with +3 total movement can explore the map relatively quickly if you don't go the Satellites route.
Rationalism:
* Immediate +1 gold for each library
* RA benefit can be had immediately
* +1 science from trading posts can be had immediately
* Immediate +10% science
* Free tech can be had almost immediately
The AI also exhibit unusual behavior with late starts. Gandhi DoW'd a CS almost immediately.
Tile-purchasing cost and CS bribe costs are not reduced, unlike most other costs, meaning that both of these are very bad uses of money, as are research agreements, IMHO. Given that many things are 70% discounted, paying full price for anything *es no bueno*.
Moriarte
Immortal
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From a layman point of view (0 experience in modern era starts), immediate third alternative is powerful thing here. If there is another 7 oil tile in the area, which is probably the case, it could be 28 oil, which means infinite land ships and g.w bombers. Probably some battleships too, when the continent is cleared. Happiness isn't going to be a problem, obviously. With that path you are likely to be science leader from the very beginning, so, it is unclear what to do with the spies.. Quickly promote in the cap and rig some city states..? Maybe get that quick steal policy at some point and attempt to steal some tech's?
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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I would disagree with this. All the things that are 70% discounted are also 70% easier to build, so there's really no huge savings there. Again -- for Autocracy, is there a big advantage to a discount on buying units when you can get to where you're building an X-Com every 1.5 turns, and you may be bumping up against the unit cap on turn 55-60?
(The answer: Maybe. Fielding a full army in 10 turns instead of 20 turns could be key, of course ...)
TheGrumpyBuddha
King
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At least one person is going to try the no-science-just-build-units-and-steal-techs strategy, probably. But I think that with that path you don't get to X-Coms on turn 45. Question is, do you need them, if your early army is big enough?
I prefer to war with a tech lead, buuuuut ... I am also not the one posting on how I have Deity domination victories by turn 150 or whatever, so maybe one of those guys can make it work.
Another advantage of 3rd Way is that you will probably have some DoFs with your ideological soul mates, and can have plenty of extra goods to sell them.
