News: WOTM 63 - Starts November 9

[Deckhand]

WOTM 63: Der Alte Fritz of Prussia.

Der Alte Fritz of Prussia. Frederick and the Philosophers. This month's WOTM is a straight forward Emperor level game. No map modifications have been made and it is not designed as either an easy nor hard game*. Frederick has never starred in Warlords nor Beyond the Sword (and only 3 times in Vanilla). The Industrialist of the month award will be given to whoever builds the most Panzers.

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

Game settings:
Playing as: Fritz of Prussia
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Emperor
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Options: No goody huts
Victory Conditions: All enabled

Map settings:
Map: Continents
World Wrap: Cylindrical
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Temperate
Sea level: Medium


Fritz is Philosophical and Organized, and you start with Hunting and Mining.

The Philosophical trait gives +100% great people birth rate and double production speed of University

The Organized trait gives -50% civic upkeep and double production speed of Courthouse, Factory and Lighthouse

Unique unit: Panzer (replaces Tank)
The Panzer benefits from: 50% combat bonus against armor units. This compares with the Tank which has: no directly comparable benefits.

Unique Building: Assembly Plant (replaces Factory)
Unique building for Germany; Replaces Factory
+1
Can turn 4 citizens into Engineers
+25%
+50% hammer with Power
Builds 50% faster with Coal


Starting screenshot

This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):





Adventurer Class bonuses:
**NO ADVENTURER CLASS SAVE**

Challenger Class Equalizers:
**NO CHALLENGER CLASS SAVE**

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open at 00:01 am on 9 Nov 2014, server local time (UTC-6:00). From that date and time, you'll be able to get your chosen starting save >>>here<<<.

Submit the save after your victory (or defeat) here, by 22 Dec 2014.

Here is a link to a list of the differences between Vanilla, Warlords and BtS.

Software Versions

Windows: This game MUST be played in Warlords (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Beyond the Sword), patched to version 2.13, and with the HOF mod version 2.13.003 installed. You can download the HOF mod here. Players using Windows Vista or Windows 7 are encouraged to read the notes on Vista fixes here.

If you have not installed BtS, you will need to update the relevant DLL files in order to match the Locked Assets checks. These are available here.**

Macintosh: This game MUST be played in Warlords (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Beyond the Sword), patched to version 2.13, and with the Mac HOF mod version 2.13.001 installed. You can download the Mac HOF mod here.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

 

[High King J.J.]

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

By the way the information for Assembly Plant is incorrect: Warlords does NOT give from coal and oil with factories or assembly plants (plants in general do not release pollution, they clean the air and release oxygen, animal life tends to do the opposite).

 

[Deckhand]

Thanks for pointing out that Warlords Factories/Assembly Plants differ from BtS.

in appreciation I have removed all the methane polluting cows from your save

Spoiler :

I meant

not designed as either an easy nor hard game*.

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

But yeah, this is pretty funny

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

 

[High King J.J.]

I meant

not designed as either an easy nor hard game*.

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

But yeah, this is pretty funny

Spoiler :

* Your results may vary.

Only now got what you meant. I had intended to include the original statement "not intended..." and the was for that comment, I mean my game will probably have our closest neighbours settling all the best places earlier than inhumanly possible and leaving me to either starve or die attacking in vain. And no oil or coal is available since the AI's have settled on top of all resources and they won't sell me any. But others will complain that they won too easily and nothing even tried to attack them.

But now I get what I actually posted. However I remember once having lost a fight where my attacker (I think it was a cavalry) had only 99.98% chance to win so maybe spears can win against panzers, at least if the panzer is mine.

 

[Htadus]

@deckhand

Spoiler :

Do you think individual results may vary?

This look like a nice start. Hope to go after the conquest.......again.

<start mantra>
I will manage to get a conquest victory for once.
I will not keep every city.
<repeat 1000 times>

I hope it will stick in my head now.

EDIT: Look like we are south of the equator.

 

[enKage]

I dont like continents ;/ if I ever play it, always go space or culture. Domination or conquest seems sooo long

 

[High King J.J.]

EDIT: Look like we are south of the equator.

What makes you think that? AFAIK the resource bubbles pointing away from the horizontal midline of the map applies only to Vanilla Civ4. (It's not always equator, only the middle of the map.)

 

[zbgayumn]

What makes you think that? AFAIK the resource bubbles pointing away from the horizontal midline of the map applies only to Vanilla Civ4. (It's not always equator, only the middle of the map.)

There's one bit of jungle in the fogged tiles in the NE corner. That's probably what Htadus was going by. Jungle to the north = south of the equator (unless the mapmaker has been busy in Worldbuilder)

 

[Jastrow]

I just realized how food poor this capital is... Unless there is something in the fog, assuming all cottages and mines, it is -11 Food! To work all tiles, we need 5! biology farms.

With no obvious place to move to improove this (Moving 1NE gets greener, but looses ALL the hills), anyone have an idea how to deal with this?? SIP and hope for food in the fog? Actually "waste" 5 capital tiles on farms? Windmills on the hills for a few less farms?

I am not at all sure what is best...

 

[lymond]

I think there is something in the fog below that scout, but he should found out for us anyway. And possibly a strat 1W. I don't see reason to move here either. Certainly not a traditional cap, but good enough to get things started.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I just realized how food poor this capital is... Unless there is something in the fog, assuming all cottages and mines, it is -11 Food! To work all tiles, we need 5! biology farms.

With no obvious place to move to improove this (Moving 1NE gets greener, but looses ALL the hills), anyone have an idea how to deal with this?? SIP and hope for food in the fog? Actually "waste" 5 capital tiles on farms? Windmills on the hills for a few less farms?

I am not at all sure what is best...

Well if there really is no more food, it's quite likely I'll use it as a production city (either the heroic epic city or the national epic/wonder-building city) and find somewhere else to build a palace as soon as I can (which probably means found the city and start having it run cottages as soon as possible, but not actually build the palace until after 0AD, when I can afford to lose the hammers). The starting spot looks quite decent for production - lots of hills and lots of tiles you can farm even before civil service. The gems isn't ideal for a production city but I can live with having them there It looks pretty good for heroic epic, I prefer a bit more food and to be riverside for national epic, but it'll do for either.

In fact I'm half wondering if you could do a CS slingshot powered by the gems, though I fear on emperor level Warlords that's a bit too risky.

 

[Jastrow]

Yep, I have been mentally working out the CS sling, but unless there is something really good in the fog, it seems like a long shot.

Counting out turns at it stands, the best I can do is Library around turn 45, which means Academy at 55. After that, we need still ~1000 beakers (math, COL, and religions...)

Aster Academy, and working 2 SCI, we would bring in (8+7+2+1 coins + 6 beakers)*1.75 = 42, so another say 24 turns... Building the oracle is no problem, but 55+24 is turns 79... That is 900 BC and is not happening on Emperor....

A realistic shot is what? 1600 BC? That is turn 60. I do not see any chance of cutting 20 turns of this date unless there is a second Gems in the fog, and even that might not be enough...

Still undecided what, if anything, to Oracle under these conditions...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I agree.

Still, with such easy marble, doing something with the Oracle looks very tempting. I guess that leaves a metal casting slingshot or a code of laws slingshot (perhaps followed up with using a great scientist to bulb philosophy for tech trades). I quite like the COL/philosophy route, in part because, unlike metal casting, philosophy doesn't help access any powerful units, so I don't mind trading it to AIs before I declare war on them And since I'll probably move the capital, a very early academy won't help me so much, which makes using the first great scientist to bulb something more attractive.

But on the other hand, doing anything with the Oracle means delaying expansion, which could be very bad on emperor. Oh dear, decisions...

 

[Jastrow]

Yeah, I keep going back and forth as well...

A CS sling is certainly a powerful thing... You invest about 250 beakers (in religious techs) an 100 Hammers (with marble), and maybe another 50 beakers for moving Masonry up, and a few worker turns of inneficiency for 1050 beakers. That is a massive return.

A CoL sling on the other hand pays back only 460 beakers...A good, but not great deal.

Currency and MC are slightly better returns, but still not amazing... Maybe just rexing is better... I dont know...

 

[Htadus]

What makes you think that? AFAIK the resource bubbles pointing away from the horizontal midline of the map applies only to Vanilla Civ4. (It's not always equator, only the middle of the map.)

There's one bit of jungle in the fogged tiles in the NE corner. That's probably what Htadus was going by. Jungle to the north = south of the equator (unless the mapmaker has been busy in Worldbuilder)

Yes, I based my assessment based on the jungle tile. However it is possible the map maker may have made modifications....Ahh I doubt it.

@Jastrow
Use your first GS to bulb Math. I have done that in the past at this difficulty.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

@Htadus. Interesting idea re maths. What's the reasoning? Maths seems a fairly cheap technology to get that way, is it worth the Oracle hammers and the research diversion?

Thinking off the top of my head, it means you can build the Oracle very early, so less risk of an AI getting it. And you unlock the much better forest chops early on, which could give you a nice army. But on the other hand it doesn't unlock any units (until you research construction, which is a lot more expensive than maths), and it doesn't look good for trades to me, since it's the kind of tech that there's no way I want to give it to an AI early (because it leads to construction). So it looks like there's some benefits but not overwhelming. Have I missed anything?

 

[Deckhand]

Bulbing Maths also helps to Oracle Civil Service.

 

[Jastrow]

Bulbing math saves 325 beakers.

1000 beakers / 42 bpt with accademy = 24 turns

675 beakers / 30 bpt without academy = 23 turns.

I dont see how oracling CS is in the cards, even with a math bulb...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

On reading the replies, I realize now that htadus was talking specifically about bulbing maths, I assumed he meant Oracle-slingshotting it. That probably makes my questions rather less relevant.

 

[Htadus]

On reading the replies, I realize now that htadus was talking specifically about bulbing maths, I assumed he meant Oracle-slingshotting it. That probably makes my questions rather less relevant.

I was talking about bulbing math in order to do the CS sling. The chance to do the CS sling is much better with this approach. This leader is perfect for that since his first GP comes out a bit fast. Well all of his GP's come out to the party a little earlier.

Several times in the past I have done the CS sling in emperor level using this method. And yes I have also lost it a several times. That is the risk. But based on the map, some times I know it is doable or not. That is when you say to hell with CS and I will take the MC or ??? If CS will be very powerful on a given map I will risk it.

Spoiler :

I also learned via test games that if you are not oracleing CS, Philo, Feud, Const or economics, the gain is not big and disappears fast, and can basically ignore the Oracle. Monarchy, Math and the MC line you can get from AI. All I need is to learn CoL and buld Philo to get you to tech parity very quickly even on higher levels.

As for your earlier question about getting better units, just use the first GS to bulb Math and Oracle Construction if better units earlier is your goal.

I like CS not just for buro but mainly for the ability to create farm chains. In some maps it is incredibly powerful.

@Jastrow, you seem to depend only your capital for your calcs. Can you second and 3rd cities help with your research?