NiGHTS: General Discussion

[markusbeutel]

Automated workers are replacing upgraded improvements with vanilla ones. Happened with Vineyard. Exactly the same with marble query wich is invisible btw. Even with "workers leave old improvements" option checked.

I'm working on a solution to the automated workers replacing new improvements. The quarry graphical bug will be fixed for tonight's update.

UPDATE: After doing some more testing, I'll be releasing a tweaked version of NiGHTS to CivFanatics later tonight - V7.1.

It will address some minor bugs and add some balance to gameplay.

CHANGES:

• Advanced Economy isn't giving the trade-route stability bonus. This will be fixed or replaced by a new policy.

• All Building Taxes will be significantly lowered where the max penalty for any policy will now be +10%.

• The Utopia Project unlock will be lowered to 3 or 4 Branches. Still deciding on the number.

• The Training of Veteran Units will be boosted to +50 a turn, double that of the new Improvement Specialists.

• Wonders will each have 3 slots and working each slot will provide either a gold/science/culture/production bonus based on the Great Person working them, and each slot will add +5 GP points. Great People currently make +10 a turn automatically, and this change will mean they will be able to match the rate of normal specialists. At +25 per turn for both new Specialists and Great People, the speed at acquiring both is 2.5X faster than in V5/6 of NiGHTS.

• Tech costs will be raised around 15-20% after the Ancient Era until the beginning of the Industrial Era where their costs will stay the same from then on.

A future change to be implemented, probably next weekend, is that Buildings/Units that are a minimum of 2 Era's past their introduction will be disabled. This is to negate the massive list of things to build that invariably crops up when playing NiGHTS. It will also add strategy in the sense of, "do I go into the next age when I still haven't built X and X from the Ancient Era."

I'll post back here when the I've uploaded V7.1

 

[markusbeutel]

problem persist....=/

Make sure to delete old versions of NiGHTS and then verify/defragment your cache through Steam => right click Civ5, verify integrity. This will solve the install problems.

 

[ouyeah]

good job so far

marcus : I'm preparing a synthesis of the changes i'd like to see in the first techs (level1 and 2) and their rewards (buildings and specialists), so the whole looks more coherent. its late now i'll post that tomorow.

Is it possible to code more than 5 rewards by tech ? Just a question because some choices are hard to make, sometimes ^^

cheers!

 

[markusbeutel]

good job so far

marcus : I'm preparing a synthesis of the changes i'd like to see in the first techs (level1 and 2) and their rewards (buildings and specialists), so the whole looks more coherent. its late now i'll post that tomorow.

Sounds good The early techs will be getting tweaked some more so it will be nice to see what you would suggest. This last update was more of a broad sweep of changes and less focused on each individual Tech, the next major update will probably focus more on minute changes and the implementation of custom graphics and art for specialists.

Is it possible to code more than 5 rewards by tech ? Just a question because some choices are hard to make, sometimes ^^

cheers!

It is possible, but these rewards will not show up in the Tech bar so there would have to be supplemental documentation. I'm actually working on an addition to NiGHTS that deals with this - probably a week or two away though.

 

[markusbeutel]

Version 7.1 released to Downloads/Modpacks/Civfanatics.

List of complete changes

• Changed Advanced Economy Policy.

• Fixed Graphical anomaly for Marble Mines.

• All Building Maintenance Taxes lowered. Max rate of any individual policy is now 10%.

• Despotism Policies incur no Maintenance Tax and have been given a boost.

• Utopia Project now unlocks at 3 completed Branches. May switch to 4 - based on player feedback.

• Tech costs bumped up roughly 20% until the Industrial Age where they have remained the same.

• Building Costs raised slightly across the board - Ancient/Medieval buildings all have immediate active benefits along with passive benefits of granting bonuses based on local resources.

• Veteran Units are trained at a rate of 50 points per turn, 25 points higher than Specialists, making them much easier to get.

• All wonders have been given 3 slots. Wonders automatically give 10 Great People points per turn and each slot filled with a citizen gives an additional 5 for a max of 25GP points per turn which matches that of normal specialists, but an increased cost to growth. To compensate for their increased viability, their abilities have been returned to Vanilla Civ5 levels.

• Fixed text errors displaying inactive or changed buildings that grant Government Bonuses.

I'm in the process of updating the Specialist info on the cover page of this thread. It will detail which Specialists create what Improvements, and what buildings are required to train these specialists.

 

[Lebowski89]

I gave .3 a try from modbuddy the other day and noticed that you get so much unrest from military units. Is this not a mod for warmongers? Are we restricted to like 5 units?

Great job on the rest of the mod. I don't really like the civ4 style leader bonuses though, I think the civ5 model makes the empires much more unique, instead of the same old bonuses in different combination's.

 

[markusbeutel]

I gave .3 a try from modbuddy the other day and noticed that you get so much unrest from military units. Is this not a mod for warmongers? Are we restricted to like 5 units?

Great job on the rest of the mod. I don't really like the civ4 style leader bonuses though, I think the civ5 model makes the empires much more unique, instead of the same old bonuses in different combination's.

Version 3 is not optimized to work with the latest patch and needs a lot of work. The latest Version 7.1 is available here on CivFanatics/Downloads/Modpacks. Version 7 of NiGHTS features more intuitive Diplomacy with number representation, more buildings, a cleaner UI for the Tech Pyramid, lowered taxes for governments, and a new growth mechanic of 1 food per citizen that allows for a far greater variety of Units and Governments to be implemented.

To install it, drag downloaded file into your MODS folder at /Documents/MyGames/SidMeiersCivilization5/MODS.

Also, I've updated the Specialist Job System information on the cover of this thread. It now details every new Specialist, his unique Improvement, where he can build it, and what Techs are required to train him.

Thanks for playing => and yes Version 3 is super harsh in regards to having an army. You'll find version 7 much more agreeable to warmongering while adding a lot of content to the builder side of the game. That being said, the mod is more difficult, especially on the higher difficulties, as the AI has been optimized to expand quicker, build more wonders, and focus heavily on building tile improvements.

 

[ouyeah]

The following are the changes I would like to see in the 2 first tech trees. The goal is to provide a more comprehensive and streamlined way of apprehending technologies in regard with tech -> ressource showed -> buldings available -> specialists.

I have tried to equilibrate the whole, so you dont get 4 possible poachers and 0 grain harvester for example. Green text is the new specialist given, red text the old one.

Spoiler :

Agriculture :

Farmhouse should give Grain Harvester (banana worker)​

Calendar :

Switch banana with spices from Pottery
Apothecary gives Spice Worker (Incense Worker)​

Trapping :

Switch Hunter's lodge with Deer to Archery
Hunter's lodge gives Poacher (fur trader)
Switch Trading Post to Currency with Atrium (new atrium = cost 80 maintenance 2)​

Animal Husbandry :

Move Horse and Stable to Horseback Riding (switch with colonnade and cattle)
Completly replace the building Colonnade with new building Cowshed (build 75 - maintenance 2 - cattle +2 food, gives Cattle Rancher)​

The Wheel :

Replace the name "Silk Route" with "Weaver Workshop" or "Tailor", gives Weaver specialist (Sculptor)
Change Windmill's specialist to Cotton Worker (shepeerd)​

Mysticism :

Monument gives Incense Worker (prophet)
Reveals Silver not Gems (switch from mining)​

Pottery :

Granary gives Banana Worker (Grain Harvester)
Alchemy shop gives Dye Worker (Incense Worker)
Switch Spices with Banana from Calendar​

Masonry :

Walls give Veteran Warrior (special anti barbarian unit) [best would be that walls give nothing, or maybe city line of sight +1?]​

Mining :

Barracks gives Veteran Warrior (special anti barbarian unit) (Poacher)
Reveals Gems, not Silver​

Fishing :

Docks give Fisherman (Poacher)​

Writing :

unchanged​

Archery :

Deer switch to Trapping, replaced with Hunter's Lodge which give Poacher (fur trader)​

Horseback Riding :

Agora should give new unit : Emissary, improve relation with AI +2 (works like old civs' caravan)
Move Cattle to Animal Husbandry
Switch Colonnade (which is replaced with Cowshed) with Stable from Animal Husbandry​

Maths :

Couting House should require improved gold silver or gems nearby (not only silver)​

Philosophy :

Temple gives prophet (sheperd)
Abbey gives Vintner (banana)​

Currency :

Market gives Silversmith (gold miner)​

Bronze Working :

Palissade gives Veteran Spearman (cotton harvester)​

Iron Working :

unchanged​

Sailing :

Tavern gives Grain Harvester (Vintner)
Shipyard gives Lumberjack (Fisherman)​

With this setup, researching the full 2 first tech trees will give access to :
(the figure is the number of specialist you get access to from buldings)
sheperd 1, grain 2, spice 1, wine 2, fur 1, deer 1, cattle 2, weaver 1, cotton 1, incense 1, silver 2, banana 1, dye 1, sculptor 2, gems 2, fish 2, poacher 1, cobbler 2
lumber 1
This should be balanced with specialists from tech 3 and 4.

cheers !

 

[markusbeutel]

The following are the changes I would like to see in the 2 first tech trees. The goal is to provide a more comprehensive and streamlined way of apprehending technologies in regard with tech -> ressource showed -> buldings available -> specialists.

I have tried to equilibrate the whole, so you dont get 4 possible poachers and 0 grain harvester for example. Green text is the new specialist given, red text the old one.

Spoiler :

Agriculture :

Farmhouse should give Grain Harvester (banana worker)​

Calendar :

Switch banana with spices from Pottery
Apothecary gives Spice Worker (Incense Worker)​

Trapping :

Switch Hunter's lodge with Deer to Archery
Hunter's lodge gives Poacher (fur trader)
Switch Trading Post to Currency with Atrium (new atrium = cost 80 maintenance 2)​

Animal Husbandry :

Move Horse and Stable to Horseback Riding (switch with colonnade and cattle)
Completly replace the building Colonnade with new building Cowshed (build 75 - maintenance 2 - cattle +2 food, gives Cattle Rancher)​

The Wheel :

Replace the name "Silk Route" with "Weaver Workshop" or "Tailor", gives Weaver specialist (Sculptor)
Change Windmill's specialist to Cotton Worker (shepeerd)​

Mysticism :

Monument gives Incense Worker (prophet)
Reveals Silver not Gems (switch from mining)​

Pottery :

Granary gives Banana Worker (Grain Harvester)
Alchemy shop gives Dye Worker (Incense Worker)
Switch Spices with Banana from Calendar​

Masonry :

Walls give Veteran Warrior (special anti barbarian unit) [best would be that walls give nothing, or maybe city line of sight +1?]​

Mining :

Barracks gives Veteran Warrior (special anti barbarian unit) (Poacher)
Reveals Gems, not Silver​

Fishing :

Docks give Fisherman (Poacher)​

Writing :

unchanged​

Archery :

Deer switch to Trapping, replaced with Hunter's Lodge which give Poacher (fur trader)​

Horseback Riding :

Agora should give new unit : Emissary, improve relation with AI +2 (works like old civs' caravan)
Move Cattle to Animal Husbandry
Switch Colonnade (which is replaced with Cowshed) with Stable from Animal Husbandry​

Maths :

Couting House should require improved gold silver or gems nearby (not only silver)​

Philosophy :

Temple gives prophet (sheperd)
Abbey gives Vintner (banana)​

Currency :

Market gives Silversmith (gold miner)​

Bronze Working :

Palissade gives Veteran Spearman (cotton harvester)​

Iron Working :

unchanged​

Sailing :

Tavern gives Grain Harvester (Vintner)
Shipyard gives Lumberjack (Fisherman)​

With this setup, researching the full 2 first tech trees will give access to :
(the figure is the number of specialist you get access to from buldings)
sheperd 1, grain 2, spice 1, wine 2, fur 1, deer 1, cattle 2, weaver 1, cotton 1, incense 1, silver 2, banana 1, dye 1, sculptor 2, gems 2, fish 2, poacher 1, cobbler 2
lumber 1
This should be balanced with specialists from tech 3 and 4.

cheers !

Thanks for taking the time to do this ouyeah. In earlier versions of NiGHTS some of these suggestions were in place, but over the course of various changes, things have shifted around and I've been focusing too much on other aspects of the mod to correct them, IE the Silk Route giving a sculptor. It's for sure my end goal to have buildings, resources, and new specialists to flow in as natural an order as possible. I'll definitely look this over and implement many of these suggestions

This will also probably be the last version of NiGHTS that allows you to build absolutely everything you want. While I like the amount of buildings I've added, I don't like how they clutter up the building queue and lead to stronger cities building 20 different things at a rate of 1-3 turns. What I'm planning on introducing is this: Whenever you enter a new era, any buildings or units that are at least 2 era's old will no longer be buildable. The only potential downfall of this change is that as soon as you hit an era and you are in the process of building a unit/building that's 2 eras old, that build will disappear no matter how far along you are in the process of building it. That being said, this will also lead to additional layers of strategy in regards to when the opportune time is to advance in era's. You could desperately need some Knights or Longswordsman, but going after them means that the city you are planning to build will not be able to construct a granary. (There are many new buildings added so it shouldn't be hard to find a good replacement).

This may take a week or so to complete as I will have to document the risks thoroughly in tool-tips so people don't get frustrated when some units/buildings are no longer buildable. What are people's thought on this? Do you prefer to have a stack of things to build? Or is this a workable mechanic? Remember it's only buildings/units that are 2 era's in the past, not 1. Middle and later tech era's last longer than 1 tier and take longer to research, so this will only really affect the immediate choices you make at the beginning of the game. I think it will also add to re-playability as you won't be building the exact same things game after game.

 

[Serga]

Version 7.1.
Cant start new game.
Get popups with message like "Unable load textures".

 

[markusbeutel]

Version 7.1.
Cant start new game.
Get popups with message like "Unable load textures".

I've tested it out and it works so it should be working for you. Did you do the whole verify integrity of files on steam and delete any other versions of NiGHTS you have installed? Also, you should probably disable any other active mods. I haven't yet tested out which mods are fully compatible with NiGHTS. Anyone else having issues?

 

[ouyeah]

What I'm planning on introducing is this: Whenever you enter a new era, any buildings or units that are at least 2 era's old will no longer be buildable.

This may take a week or so to complete as I will have to document the risks thoroughly in tool-tips so people don't get frustrated when some units/buildings are no longer buildable. What are people's thought on this?

First i think its a very cool idea

Regarding building list in each cities, i think most of the buildings should be linked to a specific ressource (for example farmhouse to wheat) and this building could only be built in the city if the ressource is present in a 3 tiles range from the City tile. This will definitly reduce building list and add a little bit of strategy to city placement and specialization.

Considering the 2 eras difference :
I'm ok with the old building being replaced. Say i discovered Animal Husbandry and i am building Stables, and say i just discovered Chivalry (from ancient ruins or free tech). If Stable is replaced by jousting field, I should have the choice to transfer 1/10th of the current Stable into producing jousting field.
Say i was 60/72 in producing stables, i can transfer 6 into jousting field.
OR i can just get gold from it and choose another building to build (just like what happens with wonders)

Question : would the benefit from the old building disappear ? Or only the building itself and its maintenance cost ? If the building's benefit disappear, this might cause problems with food ressources and city ressesion. But i guess this will be balanced through testing

 

[markusbeutel]

First i think its a very cool idea

Regarding building list in each cities, i think most of the buildings should be linked to a specific ressource (for example farmhouse to wheat) and this building could only be built in the city if the ressource is present in a 3 tiles range from the City tile. This will definitly reduce building list and add a little bit of strategy to city placement and specialization.

Considering the 2 eras difference :
I'm ok with the old building being replaced. Say i discovered Animal Husbandry and i am building Stables, and say i just discovered Chivalry (from ancient ruins or free tech). If Stable is replaced by jousting field, I should have the choice to transfer 1/10th of the current Stable into producing jousting field.
Say i was 60/72 in producing stables, i can transfer 6 into jousting field.
OR i can just get gold from it and choose another building to build (just like what happens with wonders)

Question : would the benefit from the old building disappear ? Or only the building itself and its maintenance cost ? If the building's benefit disappear, this might cause problems with food ressources and city ressesion. But i guess this will be balanced through testing

I guess I should have been more clear - the buildings only disappear from the build list. If you've built them already, you keep them unless you want to sell them You only lose them if you're still in the process of building them. Another problem I see is that some national wonders won't be able to be built later on in the game. I might allow these prerequisite buildings to stay buildable, I haven't decided yet.

As far as buildings being tied to resources, I agree that when NiGHTS is complete, many buildings will be tied to resources, but not all of them. Being tied to a specific resource also doesn't affect the building appearing in the build queue is it's just blacked out, but still there, if you lack the necessary resource. The building only disappears if it has a prerequisite building that you haven't built or it requires a specific nearby terrain, like grasslands or plains, to be built.

 

[Supermarine2000]

I've tested it out and it works so it should be working for you. Did you do the whole verify integrity of files on steam and delete any other versions of NiGHTS you have installed? Also, you should probably disable any other active mods. I haven't yet tested out which mods are fully compatible with NiGHTS. Anyone else having issues?

dude, i've tried everything to run your mod, i got windows 7 ultimate 64 bits, this is a picture of the error.

Spoiler :

your version available in modbuddy works fine in my computer, and i dont have earlier versions on my computer because i just recent formatted my system......

=/ i really love your mod, but i cant play it. sorry

 

[markusbeutel]

dude, i've tried everything to run your mod, i got windows 7 ultimate 64 bits, this is a picture of the error.

Spoiler :

your version available in modbuddy works fine in my computer, and i dont have earlier versions on my computer because i just recent formatted my system......

=/ i really love your mod, but i cant play it. sorry

You seem to be either missing that file, or it's corrupt. I'm not sure why an earlier version of NiGHTS would work while 7.1 doesn't. That being said, I may have a fix.

I've included that specific file and integrated it into the VFS so you'll be reading it through my mod and not from your computer. If this doesn't work, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I've re-uploaded 7.1 to the Downloads section so that it includes this file. Download and install it again and see if that hopefully solves your problem Also make sure to delete any old copies and verify the cache again to be safe.

EDIT: this won't affect others with this file included.

 

[flymar]

Waiting to end my work to try this release. I'v read about changing of specialists produced. Don't have on opinion, but making fur trader with walls seams out of place.
If you are going to include buildings obsoleting please consider 2 options.
- allow finishing of building
- exchange worked production for money.

 

[Sneaks]

dude, i've tried everything to run your mod, i got windows 7 ultimate 64 bits, this is a picture of the error.

Spoiler :

your version available in modbuddy works fine in my computer, and i dont have earlier versions on my computer because i just recent formatted my system......

=/ i really love your mod, but i cant play it. sorry

The texture is missing from the newest patch. Make sure that your game is updated completely then verify it through Steam. Your error is not mod related.

 

[Balerune]

I haven't finished my first game yet on v 7.1; I play as Arabia with dry, hot, hi sea levels(so they always generally complain I am taking their sphere etc.) and sparse resources on Immortal and my first impression on this last release when you re-tweaked the AI aggressive and build status is that you might have gone a bit overboard but I can't say on which or how much. I just note that I have larger cities than the AI (where before they had ridiculous sizes(one AI once had 98 citizens)) and they don't want to attack me (and of course that lack of fear changes my game style where before they attacked much more frequently but since I generally held a gold advantage(and often science) I could survive their attacks) and now on my one continent only attacked each other once. (There is an advanced AI out there somewhere that I haven't met.) To my mind their aggressiveness attitudes, growth, science all relate to the fact that their war game is lousy so there has to be compensations for that; but how to balance that so that it just doesn't become an unrestricted build game for the player I can't really say.

But that said I still enjoy your mod very much.

 

[markusbeutel]

I haven't finished my first game yet on v 7.1; I play as Arabia with dry, hot, hi sea levels(so they always generally complain I am taking their sphere etc.) and sparse resources on Emperor and my first impression on this last release when you re-tweaked the AI aggressive and build status is that you might have gone a bit overboard but I can't say on which or how much. I just note that I have larger cities than the AI (where before they had ridiculous sizes(one AI once had 98 citizens)) and they don't want to attack me (and of course that lack of fear changes my game style where before they attacked much more frequently but since I generally held a gold advantage(and often science) I could survive their attacks) and now on my one continent only attacked each other once. (There is an advanced AI out there somewhere that I haven't met.) To my mind their aggressiveness attitudes, growth, science all relate to the fact that their war game is lousy so there has to be compensations for that; but how to balance that so that it just doesn't become an unrestricted build game for the player I can't really say.

But that said I still enjoy your mod very much.

I'll release a minor update tonight that will make certain AI more aggressive. 7.1 toned everyone down equally so I could get a sense of how passive my settings were. AI like montezuma will become more aggressive after tonights update along with some specialist changes.
As far as city sizes go - on immortal and emporer, the ai will have very large cities. Up until then the average size of a city will probably be in the 30's.

 

[flymar]

Workers are replacing the Silver mine. Pasagrade is invisible. Do all of the new improvements have 3d graphics? I saw academy for sure.