Nobles' Club 224: Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia, whom we last played in NC 161. The Ethiopians start with Hunting and Mining.

• Traits: Zara is Creative and Organized. Creative gives every city +2 for free, and gives a +100% bonus to Libraries, Theatres, and Colosseums. Organized cuts Civic Upkeep in half, and gives a +100% bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and Factories.
  
• The UB: The Stele, a Monument with +25% . If Zara's Creative trait isn't enough to peacefully secure your borders early game, the Stele will give you an edge that few can match.
  
• The UU: The Oromo Warrior, a Musketman with +1 First Strike, immunity to First Strike, and a free Drill I (+1 First Strike chance) and Drill II (+1 First Strike, -20% collateral damage taken) promotion. As a side-effect this also gives them immediate access to the Cover, Formation, Pinch, Ambush and Medic I promotions. Musketman are usually ignored since their low , lack of inherit bonus vs. a specific unit type or on the defence and lack of access to City Raider promotions make them overall mediocre units, even through as the first Gunpowder unit they completely ignore Walls and Castles. Musketman that, with just 5xp, get 4-7 free shorts against everything not immune to First Strike are a slightly different story. Combine with Cannons (and, if necessary, a few Pikes to act as stack defenders) for maximum fun .

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Temperate Climate, Medium sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

Two unfortunate Fish were moved from their doomed to be unloved locations to the player's shores, and a few distant Copper/nearby Iron/Horse swaps were done to gives several AIs a nearby strategic resource.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 224 Zara Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labelled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

I decided to fish the barb tech stuff out of the difficulty spoiler block and put it in it's own out in the open, to make it more visible. Maybe unnecessary and/or...ungainly...? Insert Word Here with the triple spoiler blocks at the end, but I thought it'd be good to make the whole barb tech situation more visible.

As for the start, curious to hear the opinions of the experts: The river terminates up north (might be difficult to see in the screenshot, but it's very clearly visible ingame), which means either a Lake or Coast. The Scout can be send to make sure, moving 1N -> 1NE unto the grass hill. If it's coast than one might consider moving the settler 1SW onto the other PH, to move more inland, but that's moving away from visible floodplains and (dry, but still) Corn. Unlikely to be something as good further inland. There is an open tile 2W of the Settler that could be a food tile, and it would be riverside, but there's no guarantee that it is, and using the Scout to check the water means he can't check the tile.

So: Just SIP, move 1SW after sending the Scout to check the water/open tile 2W, or something else entirely ? My instinct says to SIP, I don't think it's worth moving away from dry Corn and floodplains, but what do the experts think ?

 

[krikav]

There is absolutely nothing that this capital is lacking really.
We start on a riverside PH.
There are riverside hills (one should not underestimate these stray 1 commerce on each riverside tile, they add up to quite alot!)
There is food (just the one dry corn and the floodplains is enough).
There is forests to chop.
There is almost certainly room for a quick helper city along the river somewhere. (3N of settler is one theoretical but unlikely possibility) if one wants to connect a quick second city early on and skimp on TW.
The plains incense is also a nice tile although it requires calendar. (Normally only spawns on desert, but when in BFC it's changed to plains).

I'm kind of leaning toward settling first, and only then decide which way to send the scout. Meeting some other AI before T5 would be sweet as we almost certainly want to go agriculture.
Sprinting SE->SE looks nice to me, always good to scout around the area of the food as that can help to decide if a city should go in that direction and share it.

 

[krikav]

@Fippy Was it you or Izuul who tried out some gunpowder beeline with Zara? Or have I mixed up everything completely?

 

[earthy]

would it be worth moving 1E and killing a floodplain if there's another corn or something to the east(assuming we won't kill a fish that way, if that is coast)

 

[krikav]

would it be worth moving 1E and killing a floodplain if there's another corn or something to the east(assuming we won't kill a fish that way, if that is coast)

Spoiler :

Thats absolutely true, I did end up moving scout SE->NE when I started playing.
But it has to be something spectacular to move in that direction though.

 

[krikav]

Playing deity, no huts, no events, normal speed all else default.

Spoiler T17 :

Moved scout toward the corn, and when I saw the hills further SE I took a step toward the coast as that would yield better scout movements (I think!).
Looks like there is seafood, and with ORG (cheap lighthouses) I reccon that bulbing engineering is entierly off the table now.

No mansa musa, but Hammy is here. Looks like there are about 3 AIs starting coastal too.
3 of them start w/o mining and 2 start with. 1 (2?) cha leaders.

Land is looking spectacular. Cre is looking very nice here!
Wishing that I would find some early offshore islands, early sailing might be nice with those half-price lighthouses and so much seafood. Would connect everything as long as I keep inland cities along the river too.
Map seems to think that I should construct pyramids (loads of food, loads of forest and possible C2 stone).

Ok, looks like there is one creative AI in the game (or 2, but one on some weird peninsula?)

Haha, there they are! The one Cre AI and the one Cha AI. Cathy also start with mining so perhaps one could shorten the list of other AIs dramatically now.

T12 I note that brennus has dropped spending EP on me.
He is at -2 with me and +2 with cathy, so this got to mean that he has found someone he hates. Some guy with high peaceweight.
Can't be Hatty (Cre), can't be Lincoln (Cha), can't be Mansa...
Gandhi..? Lizzy..? Or some of the fellas with 8 in peaceweight perhaps.
I put my spread at 3eps on Brennus and 1 on cathy to possible gain vision of Brennus teching and keep knowledge of cathys demographics.
I'm going BW because I might want to chop alot of settlers early and put up a wall of creative culture to secure land, and I want to know if I can defend myself if any of these fishy neighbours get any ideas. The river makes me think I'm OK commerce wise anyway.

The land up north gives me goosebumps. I'm OK with being boxed in if this is my box.

7 nice cities, can I settle all this I would be very glad.
Thinking I have to go 2S of the pigs first to deter cathy from going in my direction.
The land in the south I can probably afford losing to Brennus.
Settling on the stone might be an option too, could perhaps build pyramids there w/o having to go for TW first.

Love the map!

 

[scheines]

Have a love-hate with CRE leaders because it makes you think wild when it comes to city placement.

Anyways - emperor, no huts / events, normal speed:

Spoiler Up to T23 :

Moved my scout to the hill as shown. Figured I couldn't learn anything that would move me south, so I went north instead. Settled in place, though as we will see this really messes with some coastal cities later on. Though, PH is still a good start.

For tech I go agriculture -> BW -> AH. I started to see a few pigs and cow, so I figured I couldn't justify skipping it.

Met Cathy, Brennus and Hammurabi early. Initial impression is that land looks pretty good. No shortage of where I want to settle, and CRE only makes it worse.

Took a stab at my empire layout. Lower half -
* Out west, I want to reuse that corn somehow and claim the river + grassland. Also need to block cathy off from the north.
* Two cities down south are lower priority IMO. The land up north is nice, but I will strive to get the cow / rice if I can. My priorities will probably shift toward wherever the horses are though since we have no realistic copper early on.
* Out east is solid for the 2x seafood. Kind of a gimme city though so I think it'll come later.

Up north, wasn't sure the best way to use all the seafood. A few tries led me to this. The s? city would normally be a no-go for non-CRE, but it kind of helps to eliminate some setups. It's possible we can make this into 4 cities though; I'll have to think on it.

Krikav, what do you think of the differences in our western cities. Is that SW pig city unrealistic?
I noticed you didn't discover it yet so maybe that could affect the placements.

For the west placement I picked, I figured we'd want to grab as much of those grassland tiles as we can.

Then lastly, why on the tundra hill? You'd have access to more workable tiles 1S.

 

[scheines]

Spoiler T81ish :

Next few turns I chop out a settler. Picked tiles along the path to the site. I originally wanted to settle 2N of where I did, but last second, I end up deviating and sticking to other member's plans. My rationale is that this saves me an early road, and I decided that the city I mapped S of here was going to be too ambitious. Especially with all the other good sites I want!

For tech I am going wheel, pottery.

In subsequent turns, got out a few more workers, and here I am just trying to grow to my happy cap in Aksum. Then we will pop another settler or two before the pyramids. I'd love to hear a pitch on when not to build the pyramids if you have stone. Just don't really understand where I might need to pass that up? Maybe if land was really tight, but here I feel I can comfortably get 7-9 quality cities.

Kept forgetting to revolt to slavery while settler was in transit so I just ate the turn of anarchy. Couldn't wait any longer. I always make a point to do these little things then always forget

Tech wise I stop mid-pottery to get masonry in time for the mids, then I am back to working towards writing.

I kick off the pyramids, and it's time to chop. I made a few mistakes on unhappiness here. Two things:
1) The "We demand protection" always sneaks up on me. Does it have a formulaic onset? Or is it semi-random?
2) BUG doesn't seem to warn you until a few seconds after the end turn text appears, and I have usually already pressed it. Anyone else have this issue?

Here, I also settle Addis Ababa. Normally, I may have waited until I had workers free to improve food, but didn't want to chance it with Brennus so close by.

I also met Izzy in her own religion which I'm sure won't cause any issues .

Tech wise, I am planning to go myst -> meditation -> priesthood -> CoL. We just have so much food it seemed logical. Aesthetics made no sense cause no marble, and I never really know when to self tech alpha other than in isolation (so I can build research).

Complete the mids T79, thanks to lots of chops. Workers are busy with some cottages, since, as I learned last NC, you easily can go broke if you don't have any early game, and I'm going to settle the coast last to maximize my land grab efforts.

Final update for this segment:

Now that I have the mids, I am for certain going the CoL route. Should offer some good trade value, and the synergy with representation is stellar.

City wise, I am going to grab the site above Lalibela, then backfill the others. That nets me solid 8 cities easily.

Shortly from here, I think I'll save off the game and try two approaches:
1) I kind of want to try a culture victory here from the get-go. The religious bloodbath that will likely ensue (lots of aggressive AIs) could keep me relatively safe, so long as Cathy + Brennus both agree on a religion. Brennus can't declare at pleased, and Hereditary rule as Cathy's favorite civic is an easy one to get some points for. This might require us to settle a borderline 9th city to get the cathedrals, so IMO the optimal play deviates around here.
2) On the flip side, no marble could slow down NE + cathedrals, depending on what I need to make. Also, Cathy is a ruthless backstabber, so I have heard, which makes this a rather risky endeavor. For those reasons, I likely will have to reload from this point and go for domination

 

[DoowMas]

Spoiler Turn 50 :

Playing this one on Warlord, see how I go. How's it looking? The land seems very nice, just have to find a way to make use of all of it.

How it looks currently;

Tech screen;

 

[scheines]

Spoiler 1 AD Update :

DoowMas, tough to tell what you did exactly from one screenshot 50 turns in. Definitely would suggest more gradual updates!

All in all, those are the basic techs I'd be going for early game. Masonry might be a waste if you didn't build the pyramids. IMO, a little city overlap here would be worthwhile to save you all those worker turns running around. It feels wrong at first but properly shared food can really jump-start your empire.


As far as my updating goes... culture route does not seem to be working. I kept getting Hinduism, and Brennus kept getting, well, anything but that. I got DoWs from him and Cathy a few times in a row and decided it doesn't seem appropriate. The problem is (IMO) you need the religion for Org Rel / Pacifism, since you're not philosophical and don't have marble or copper. But, the way things keep landing for me, war with someone feels certain if you declare a religion of your own.

On the retry for domination, I am continuing to fill out cities. Had some ugly happy cap problems though.. On the below screenshot, how would you work the tiles? Given my improvements, I couldn't work it out any better.

Again, I get Hinduism, but stay out of it this time.

I pop CoL first and land my own religion. Again, I don't adopt it, but hopefully this will make a nice holy city.

I place what I think will be my NE city. Double food and some farms will let me work a lot of specialists. Considered settling on river for the free capital connection, but trying to avoid settling where I wouldn't without CRE to avoid bad habits.

I get out a 100 BC scientist. I plan to use him to bulb philo, but I'll have to tech math first (not selected yet here). I probably should've built an academy, in hindsight. Need to get out more and see if there are other civs on the continent or not to see if the game will run long though.

Hammurabi finally gets alpha. I trade for it and get pretty ripped off, but I want to get trades going. Hoping to get Brennus pleased since he can't declare, then remove Cathy from the game before she tries to do so herself.

At 1 AD, I've got my 6 cities, with a settler in transit by Lalibela, and one more on the way in Aksum. Next turns are some final whips in new cities, then to caste system to really harness representation.

Tech wise, how do you pick where you want to stop and attack someone? I know it basically boils down to "when you have the advantage" but on emperor that's not too tough to get to. I reckon I could lib MT and eliminate someone, or I could push past it to rifling. But, it kind of feels arbitrary where I choose to stop. We had plenty of land here, but once it's all settled, I'm not sure of the best timing to go on the offensive.

 

[krikav]

T50 (tbc to T62)

Spoiler :

After BW, there was a million different techs I wanted (AH for the pigs, fishing obviously), but settled for TW as it felt most flexible.
The idea to go sailing and forgo TW was a cute idea but probably not warranted.
Need TW for pottery anyway and pottery is probably a must with all those nice floodplains.

I had forgotten how quick you get third ring with creative leaders, the culture give superb fogbusting, really nice.

I opt to finish the second warrior before revolting and starting with the settler. I make sure to work maximum hammers when finishing warrior to increase the odds of getting a early whip (got to get those 40 hammers into the settler to do the 2pop whip!)

Cathrine settles toward me, she is probably squeezed by the coast in the west.

T29 SH is built, but not by anyone I know.

First settler is out, and I make a calculated risk.
Cathy has just settled her third city, and I have overflow and a chop comming in, and growing to size2 again is quick.
So I settle 2E of the stone first, as a city there pulls it's own weight better right away due to insta-connection along the river, and that it's able to work the oasis right away. It can also whip it's own workboat and work floodplains so I can neglect it for some time.
But not settling toward cathy first is abit risky!

Oh, it was Hammy that Brennus hated. (Hammy came from the south).
I knew he was in the game and he is peaceweight8 but I didn't put those two pieces of info together.

Phew! I did get out the settler in time!
Overflow here was apparantly big enough to finish a second worker with the chop. Will use them both to finish the road next turn _before_ settling thrid city, so it gets traderoutes too. Fishing is done and Gondar will whip it's workboat.

TGW build T43.
I'm setting up Aksum so it gets close to 69 hammers so it can 2pop whip a settler and overflow into pyramids, will 1pop a worker in Lalibela and 2pop whip a fourth in Gondar, want to quarry and chop pyramids as quickly as possible so I go heavy on workers.
I reason that I should go pottery now to have something for that worker army to do once pyramids is done. But I feel like the people of Lalibela is really hating on me because I ignore their bacon.

Like so. Getting the settler a turn later this way, and I also work worse tiles (to not get over 69 as that would result in a 1pop whip without any overflow).
But getting hammers for pyramids is of outmost importance now.

Brennus is comming my way... Go settle toward Hammy please!
The settler is whiped and I move it southwest, not commiting spot before I know where/if brennus settles.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T62 :

I'm starting to become really really uncomfortable here. Without copper and not having teched archery I'm stressed out and look carefully for a red fist every turn. I feel that I have probably been abit greedy here, should probably have prioritized a gift settler earlier.

Brennus has the rice in second ring. Don't really want to put anything there and try steal it and possibly anger him. I could make room for one city SW of the capitals corn if I go with a city 1W of the cows, but I think it's probably more sane to just go with one city 2W of the cows.
Next turn reveals no horses and with pyramids built and no copper, no horse I need to think abit about how to proceed.

If I felt safe I would go writing and then probably myst->med->PH->CoL and use that for tradebait. (CoL is nice with pyramids due to rep, and org courthouses might be ok too.)
After that I would likely just try to bulb philo, tech toward lib and lib nationalism, tech gunpowder and draft oromos and couple them with catapults.
But I don't feel safe... Cathy is too close for comfort. Think I'm just going to go archery and build a few to stack up in Lalibela just in case.
I might have iron (should have, as I don't have anything else) but I don't feel comfortable waiting to see.

 

[elementoffear]

I decided to fish the barb tech stuff out of the difficulty spoiler block and put it in it's own out in the open, to make it more visible. Maybe unnecessary and/or...ungainly...? Insert Word Here with the triple spoiler blocks at the end, but I thought it'd be good to make the whole barb tech situation more visible.

As for the start, curious to hear the opinions of the experts: The river terminates up north (might be difficult to see in the screenshot, but it's very clearly visible ingame), which means either a Lake or Coast. The Scout can be send to make sure, moving 1N -> 1NE unto the grass hill. If it's coast than one might consider moving the settler 1SW onto the other PH, to move more inland, but that's moving away from visible floodplains and (dry, but still) Corn. Unlikely to be something as good further inland. There is an open tile 2W of the Settler that could be a food tile, and it would be riverside, but there's no guarantee that it is, and using the Scout to check the water means he can't check the tile.

So: Just SIP, move 1SW after sending the Scout to check the water/open tile 2W, or something else entirely ? My instinct says to SIP, I don't think it's worth moving away from dry Corn and floodplains, but what do the experts think ?

My insinct is also try 1N -> 1NE with the scout, I see less of a benefit to moving the settler south or west and loosing the nice flood plain tiles.

 

[krikav]

@scheines T23

Spoiler :

The SW pigs looks nice, but there are a few problems:
How early can we get AH realistically? There are a million other things to get too.
In my game they where taken by Cathy very early so not a consideration of mine, but in your game perhaps settling 2N of the pigs would have been ok?
On a PH, would have had two floodplains to work early on even if neglecting pigs, and it would be connected along river after borderpop. Not too shabby.
It also depends on how scared one is of the AIs. In my game I went lean and did go for both rapid expansion and for pyramids early on. I'm a sitting duck and can't afford to settle in a way that could anger both my neighbours. We have land up north and along the coast so I don't want to get too greedy.


The marker 2W of the capitals corn I don't really like for the same reasons. It's on flatland and it's toward cathy, both you and her are creative and it's bound to cause tensions.
It's good to grab grasslands if you can, but I like my western city (on the PH 2S of pigs) much more. It does get the PH hammer, and it gets it's own food.
A city 2W of the capital would be dependent on the capitals corn for the rest of the game which can be acceptable but it's also not necessery.


The tundra hill
I had not given that marker that much though, as it's a city for much later, but some of my thoughts from then mixed up with what I know now...

I figued this city would be settled in sync with a workboat from some of the other more mature coastal cities, and on the tundra hill would get crabs from settlement. (Not that much of an issue, it could also borrow pigs from T0).
I always prefer hills if I can, because it's just so much easier to defend if things turn out nasty, and settling on the grassland hill I don't want to, because that hill will be pretty much the only production that city can get aside from whips.
One alternative settlement I think it on the fur, as that gets a happy resource earlier and save a truckload of workerturns having to camp and road that tile.


Other stuff
I note that you have improved your corns in the wrong order. Should have gone for the wet corn first, you are losing at least 7 food by going for the dry first!
I also like going for a 2pop whip of settler here (so much food and easy to regrow even w/o granary.

 

[Fippy]

@Fippy Was it you or Izuul who tried out some gunpowder beeline with Zara? Or have I mixed up everything completely?

Was a game that i played together with Izuul, but via pm.

 

[krikav]

@DoowMas

Spoiler :

That looks decent, but you seem abit scattered.
Why have you teched masonry if you have no city up near the stone, and doesn't seem to be interested in using it?
I would have prefered Lalibela either 2W or NW.
NW would be connected to capital w/o roads after borderpop, and borderpop would also get those peaks inside of culture and you would get superb vision into cathys land.

Perhaps Gondar should have gone 1 tile further south, gaining you copper. But that nothing I would dare do in my game.

 

[krikav]

@Fippy

How did you go about it? Was it lib->gunpowder, or some fishingless gunpowder bulb?
Did it involve nationalism for drafting?

Was it fun...?

 

[Fippy]

Iirc we had the usual bulbs like Philo and Edu, also Lib (yep GP) by getting compass and delaying machinery
Cannot remember drafting, which i dun like much overall (xp loss, no Vass).

Was lots of fun, Drill IV Oromos barely took damage in many fights.
Used Trebs as support until cannons later (but game was already won then).
We agreed that it can be done on average starts, so quiet nice.

 

[krikav]

@scheines T81

Spoiler :

Pyramids or not when there is stone?
I think pyramids make more sense if you are cramped for space than it does if we have plenty of room really. The extra happy allows you to grow your few cities taller instead.
If the stone is in an awkward position, and if you have alot of happines already (perhaps you are cha and have fur +gold+gem?) and if the land is food deprived so that running specialists would be problematic.

Revolt in transit
Do a alt+m reminder, or put up some notes on the city that spawns the settler or along the settlers path.

We demand protection
There is a formulaic onset for this. But I don't know it by heart. I just know that if we have no happines resources it kicks in very early and warriors are needed right away in all but the most food deprived cities.
The formula is something like:
pop1-3 no unhappy
pop 4-5 1 unhappy
pop5-8 2 unhappy
pop9+ 3unhappy. But I don't know the limits.
@Fippy knows though.

Self-tech alfa?
I don't do this often myself at all either. It can make sense if you are going to a early war because you can extort techs for peace.
Or if you are surrounded by AIs like... GK, Monty, Shaka who will sometimes go steel before alfa.

Settlement of Addis abba w/o worker ready
Well, that just par of the course, the cute guidelines we set up are just that... Guidelines. Here you prioritized staking out more land and thats perfecly fine imho.
I do this more often with cre leaders myself too, because a new city not only produces the city center and whatever unimproved tile it can reach, but it also produces that culture which in borderlands can be improtant to start producing sooner rather than later.
It was a nice spot too, I was eyeing that but Brennus beat me to it.



Other
I like the floodplain farms in Gondar. It helps capital keep it's corn and the food is likely much more important than good cottages there.
I'm not sure how you managed to find the workerturns required that early on though.

I don't like Lalibela at all, 1E looks much better imho. It would reach the stone so you can juggle that tile between fish-city and Lalibela.
1E would also be on a hill, which is always nice, and it would "kill" a -2F tile and get a extra hammer in that city for free.
The only thing you got extra by this settlement is one more riverside grassland and some desert tiles.