OCC leader suggestion

[Henri Christophe]

Any rebuttals to me and @Zaarin's counterpoints, there?

Let me try...

This would be a bit difficult to have on the standard Earth map with the Romans. Plus, the Papal States were not one one city, but contained several cities and territories in their swath across Central Italy, and had even had exclaves like Benevento, Avignon, and, for periods of time, Papal Fiefs in the Holy Land set up by the Crusaders and de jure the Island of Ireland.

Share the same location is a problem, but we can set a game without Rome and the Vatican city will be free to set it's city on the spot.

The Papal States had many cities

Since it is an OCC, we can just use one city. The Vatican city is more then enought, we don't need more cities.


And for end, I don't will make a point in favor of Vatican, because it should be more euro overrepresentation, but Vatican city fill the OCC and I think should be fun have a pope to play in a game, maybe he can purchase crusaders with faith.

 

[Patine]

but we can set a game without Rome and the Vatican city will be free to set it's city on the spot.

*blinks* We can, can we? This is Civ. I don't think there is going to be an iteration of Civ without the Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, and Chinese as the essential four, and almost certainly the Indians and Aztecs, as well, at the very bedrock. So, I'd realistically say, no, we couldn't get a Civ iteration without the Romans.

 

[Henri Christophe]

*blinks* We can, can we? This is Civ. I don't think there is going to be an iteration of Civ without the Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, and Chinese as the essential four, and almost certainly the Indians and Aztecs, as well, at the very bedrock. So, I'd realistically say, no, we couldn't get a Civ iteration without the Romans.

I'm not saying to don't have Rome in the game, I just said we don't need to set a game with Rome. When we set a game we choice some civilization in pool of available civilization, in that moment we should choice between Rome and Vatican if we are playing in the real earth location.
If we play in a Pangea map, for example, is totally indifferent where Vatican and Rome will spawn their first city.

 

[Hull tyyp]

True, but if these were allowed into player's hands as opposed to using the city-state label and AI rules, there would be no inherent limits to stop them from playing as a standard civi.

They would still need a leader right?
I'm proposing a one leader, that could rule any of them, sort of like Elanor can rule England and France.

Just to avoid the leader selection screen becoming a mess they could make it a tiered selection somehow.
Like first select "The Council" leader and then you get to chooce which city-state it rules.

That ruler would give most of the OCC related bonuses with the city-state selection granting its suzerain bonuses for the leader throughout the game.

That leader would essentially add 48 new civilizations to the game.

 

[mitsho]

I feel like Singapore would be a much better candidate for the one city civ.

But i feel like ops post hasnt really been discussed. I find it intriguing (but it obviously wont happen).

 

[Evie]

Singapore just gave me a terrible not-too-serious-and-yet OCC idea...

The Pirate Republic of Nassau/New Providence, led by Edward Teach...

Make sense as a OCC (albeit with a playstyle that doesn't go tall at all - a very different kind of OCC), about as much of a memorable larger than life leader as you can get (it's freaking Blackbeard!), crossover value with another famous Sid Meier Game, strong "play as the barbs" vibe...and you get the Our Flag Means Death fandom )

 

[pineappledan]

Another good candidate for a 1 city religious empire could be Tiwanaku

Full disclosure, I have family in Singapore and I don’t try to conceal my disdain for that place. Singapore as a country is 57 years old, and though the city itself is older than that, it’s political independence and relevance is certainly not. It has had 1 leader — not one effective leader, just 1 leader — who led the country directly for 38 years, indirectly for another 20, and whose ghost has haunted the place ever since while his inept children squabble over the scraps. the country is 70% ethnic Chinese, and the native Malays are a racial underclass. The Chinese there often claim descent and continuity from the Peranakan (Straits Chinese), but the vast vast vast majority of them are mainlanders who have arrived within the last 3 generations and have no ties to that community, so it’s a sham. Singapore doesn’t fund arts education and they disappeared all their creatives in the 90s in an anti-communist purge. 1 of their 2 publishing companies was just shut down in the last 5 years because of widespread abuse and sex scandals, so they’re now a country with 1 publisher, no music industry, and a theater and film industry so decrepit and anemic they just shove money to the same 3 hacks year after year.

As a result of all this, Singaporean culture is non-existent, their institutions are younger than some of my furniture, and their society routinely marginalizes and dispossesses anyone with a genuine connection to the land. Sometimes the country notices it’s own lack of tradition or identity, but since they impoverished and killed anyone who could have made them a culture, they hire Canadians to try to do it instead. The country is ahistoric and rootless; using them as a civ spits in the face of history.

 

[Patine]

Just to avoid the leader selection screen becoming a mess they could make it a tiered selection somehow.
Like first select "The Council" leader and then you get to chooce which city-state it rules.

I don't know. It sounds kind of soulless and unevocative, and the name, and even concept to a degree, sounds like it's out of conspiracy theory fiction.

Another good candidate for a 1 city religious empire could be Tiwanaku

There is also a significant amount of evidence that shows Tiwanaku was, itself, the centre of a fairly large empire that rivaled the Wari (or Huari) and Chimu in the period of Andean history before the rise of the Inca. In fact, it is believed by some archaeologists the Tiwanaku were extensive enough that the so-called Ayamara Lordships all fractured from it. Of course, lack of written records make knowing this for sure difficult (as well as any leaders, unique improvements, or unique units, especially with endemic names, or even discerning unique abilities, for Tiwanaku, or any of these pre-Inca polities), but archaeology points to the likelihood of an empire over a single city-state.

 

[Patine]

The Pirate Republic of Nassau/New Providence, led by Edward Teach...

Make sense as a OCC (albeit with a playstyle that doesn't go tall at all - a very different kind of OCC), about as much of a memorable larger than life leader as you can get (it's freaking Blackbeard!), crossover value with another famous Sid Meier Game, strong "play as the barbs" vibe...and you get the Our Flag Means Death fandom )

The Huns should also be a, "counter-civ," in a similar, if different, mold, if they appeared. After all, Attila is the default, "barbarian," leader in Civ1, 2, and 3.

 

[Hull tyyp]

I don't know. It sounds kind of soulless and unevocative, and the name, and even concept to a degree, sounds like it's out of conspiracy theory fiction.

Sure, i used "The Council" as a way to convey my idea and all the mechanics associated with it. Civ usually has actual historical flair to all things featured so the developers could find an actual leader from history who could vaguely pass as a leader to any city-state.

The religious OCC ideas in this thread are way too constrained. Any civ like that would make for a very specific game every time unlike a normal civilization with religious bonuses where you could still ignore them and go another direction.

My idea is about more varied civilization leader that could even do a domination game with the unique victory condition described in the op.

 

[Patine]

Sure, i used "The Council" as a way to convey my idea and all the mechanics associated with it. Civ usually has actual historical flair to all things featured so the developers could find an actual leader from history who could vaguely pass as a leader to any city-state.

The religious OCC ideas in this thread are way too constrained. Any civ like that would make for a very specific game every time unlike a normal civilization with religious bonuses where you could still ignore them and go another direction.

My idea is about more varied civilization leader that could even do a domination game with the unique victory condition described in the op.

Call me old school, but I see an OCC game as a challenge you choose to engage in with any civ by restricting your own actions and gameplay, and possibly being reviewed for it. I don't see any realistic civ being forced into the role as making much sense, if one truly considers history and the issue there. That's where I stand on this.

 

[Hull tyyp]

Call me old school, but I see an OCC game as a challenge you choose to engage in with any civ by restricting your own actions and gameplay, and possibly being reviewed for it. I don't see any realistic civ being forced into the role as making much sense, if one truly considers history and the issue there. That's where I stand on this.

Do you really enjoy playing OCC like that?
If so then yeah, you can already do it.

I have been playing since civ 4 and never really enjoyed the OCC game. Only with Venice I started to like it. Something nice about a more relaxed game, where there's less clicking and turns pass faster.

Wish there was something similar in civ 6 but without all the problems associated with self imposed OCC rules.

 

[Patine]

Do you really enjoy playing OCC like that?
If so then yeah, you can already do it.

I have been playing since civ 4 and never really enjoyed the OCC game. Only with Venice I started to like it. Something nice about a more relaxed game, where there's less clicking and turns pass faster.

Wish there was something similar in civ 6 but without all the problems associated with self imposed OCC rules.

And, there is also, again, the issues of historical inaccuracy. Venice did NOT live up to the OCC ideal, really, nor did the Papal States (not that the word STATES was in plural, and advisedly - it was more than just Rome, territorially). The other nations you'd listed whose capitals are City-States in Civ6 would also not function as City-States if they were playable. MAYBE pre-1871 Hamburg, Lubeck, or another major Hanseatic City-State (but they did have oligarchic rule, which is a bit soulless, as I'd said), or Singapore (but their only real leader who'd be chosen died in the 21st Century). The thing is, human civilizations don't realistically restrict themselves, by choice and preference, that way if expansion is, at all, a possibility.

 

[Evie]

I know that in reality they're a country that's not even that small, and that has numerous actual cities, but I think in a thematic way, you could make a strong thematic case for a one city (or limited cities) challenge civ with Switzerland.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I know that in reality they're a country that's not even that small, and that has numerous actual cities, but I think in a thematic way, you could make a strong thematic case for a one city (or limited cities) challenge civ with Switzerland.

Nothing against Switzerland, but thinking in small states for an OCC. I would sugest Lesotho.
1st because it is in Africa, the forgotten continent.
2nd because it's a monarchy, so it's easy to pic a leader.

 

[Hull tyyp]

And, there is also, again, the issues of historical inaccuracy. Venice did NOT live up to the OCC ideal, really, nor did the Papal States (not that the word STATES was in plural, and advisedly - it was more than just Rome, territorially). The other nations you'd listed whose capitals are City-States in Civ6 would also not function as City-States if they were playable. MAYBE pre-1871 Hamburg, Lubeck, or another major Hanseatic City-State (but they did have oligarchic rule, which is a bit soulless, as I'd said), or Singapore (but their only real leader who'd be chosen died in the 21st Century). The thing is, human civilizations don't realistically restrict themselves, by choice and preference, that way if expansion is, at all, a possibility.

The op was purposely left vague because I don’t think the developers would take anything specific and implement that in the game. My hope was that they would take some or all the elements and make it into a playable leader or civ. For example, I will use your idea of Lübeck to implement it.

Lübeck does make sense historically as well. I live in the city of Tallinn, which was once part of the Hanseatic league, a sort of a city-state under “Lübecks law”, so yeah a powerful city-state having influence over another city-state. Following description uses almost all of the ideas from the op.

Spoiler Lübeck :

Johann Wittenborg leads The Free City of Lübeck
Leader ability:
Merchant Major. Completing a trade route to a new civilization or a city-state grants a new trade route. Trade routes apply loyalty pressure. Dominating loyalty pressure to a city-state or a free city keeps it independent. Can not keep captured cities, will have the option of turning it into a Free city instead.

Unique unit:
Handelsanwalt. Unique civilian unit replacing the settler. Same cost and build rules as the settler. Any bonuses to the settler will apply for the Handelsanwalt instead. Capturing enemy settler will turn it into the Handelsanwalt. Can only settle capital city.
Has 1 charge that can be used for the following:
Establish Lübecks law – Must be activated next to a free city center. Turns that free city into a random city-state with 3 Lübeck envoys. Establishing Lübecks law to an original capital will convert it into random type a city-state, that will keep its original name and has no unique suzerain bonus. Action consumes the Handelsanwalt.
Build Exclave Center – Builds the unique tile improvement. Action consumes the Handelsanwalt.

Civilization ability:
Hanseatic world order. Become the suzerain of all original capitals to win a domination victory.

Unique tile improvement:
Exclave Center. Built by the Handelsanwalt. Requires currency. Can not be adjacent to another Exclave Center. Can not be removed. Must be built 3 tiles away from city center in the city territory. Provides 1 production, food and gold. Provides 2 housing. Provides major adjacency bonus to districts. Provides the city with another governor slot. Culture bombs nearby tiles. Allows the city center to work tiles 2 tiles away from the Exclave Center.

However, I still like my op more, the idea to choose a leader that can assume control of any city-state in the game seems cool. Also, it enables you to play any of those small countries such as Switzerland.

 

[FishFishFish]

Nothing against Switzerland, but thinking in small states for an OCC. I would sugest Lesotho.

Switzerland has existed for far longer then Lesotho and is far more historically relevant. In my opinion a one city Civ should be something that has existed for a long period of time. It feels cheap if they only came into existence at the last turns of the game.

For that reason I will nominate the Edo/Benin Kingdom in modern day Nigeria, since it really didn't expand that far out from Benin city. It was a medieval kingdom that existed since the twelfth century and well into the end of the nineteenth century when it was defeated by the British Empire. (Though, it's identity could be traced further back to the Igodomigodo kingdom, which supposidly existed in 40 BC.)

The Benin kingdom was a historical significant kingdom with a long history of trade, arts and most importantly a legacy of grand public infrastructure and city planning (which fits nicely with the one city civ theme). Apparently the walls of Benin city were also "the world's largest earthworks carried out prior to the mechanical era".

They also have a great female leader choice in queen Idia too.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Switzerland has existed for far longer then Lesotho and is far more historically relevant. In my opinion a one city Civ should be something that has existed for a long period of time. It feels cheap if they only came into existence at the last turns of the game.

For that reason I will nominate the Edo/Benin Kingdom in modern day Nigeria, since it really didn't expand that far out from Benin city. It was a medieval kingdom that existed since the twelfth century and well into the end of the nineteenth century when it was defeated by the British Empire. (Though, it's identity could be traced further back to the Igodomigodo kingdom, which supposidly existed in 40 BC.)

The Benin kingdom was a historical significant kingdom with a long history of trade, arts and most importantly a legacy of grand public infrastructure and city planning (which fits nicely with the one city civ theme). Apparently the walls of Benin city were also "the world's largest earthworks carried out prior to the mechanical era".

They also have a great female leader choice in queen Idia too.

Benin is also an amazing choice! I would like to see at least one West Africa civ.
They also have beatifull art work of Bronze who sould appear as great artefacts in the game.