On Random Map Creation - Work to be done?

[QES]

I use SmartMap with among other settings:

Heavy Forest (though I halved the amount of extra forest SmartMap creates - at the unedited Heavy setting about ALL the map is filled with forest :dizzy
=> good for Fellowship of Leaves

30% hills => good for Runes of Kilmorph

Heavy rivers, heavy lakes => good for Octopus Overlords

So no matter where you start, you almost always have some good terrain for whatever religion you pick.

Other stuff is eg 10% peaks, heavy fragments which gives a very fjordlike Scandinavian feel to the map.

What about the AI? Do they have good terrain too? Its easy to monkey with the thing to get the best results for MY civ......but id like all civs present on the map to be in their particuarly enjoyed surroundings innitially.
-Qes

 

[Maniac]

The extra hills and lakes are spread all over the map, so it doesn't matter where the AI starts as far as I can see.

Forest is more of a problem, as that's concentrated on the northern and southern regions of the map. But I think the best solution for that would be to teach the AI to bloom more forests if they're fellowship - something they hardly do now as far as I can judge.

 

[QES]

I would like it if forests, hills, deserts and the like - while multiple - are more uniform amung themselves. Then the positioning could follow suit.
-Qes

 

[vorshlumpf]

Lately I've been playing strictly on the Fantasy Realm map. If you haven't tried it, it basically has a random assortment of terrain types everywhere. Of course, that's not what you're looking for, but I mention it because it was how I envision the world when the ice has just retreated (at least, enough for civilization to return to the world). Since most civs get Vitalization, I consider that the re-formation of a 'normal' world - the continued retreat of the ice age.

I agree, though, that the initial selection has to be managed. I've seen land-locked Lanun too many times.

- Niilo

 

[vorshlumpf]

Hmm (*about face, comes back to thread*), at risk of offering something that I cannot produce, I'm a programmer of sorts and have been thinking of dabbling in a map script. It would help me shed my current apathy for anything related to computer work, though, if there are any examples or threads in this forum that point such people in the right direction. My biggest problem would be in actually getting started - once there, I'm sure the rest would be mushroom gravy.

- Niilo, burned out computer engineering graduate?

 

[strategyonly]

Not to be off-topic here, well heck, i will, LOL, but if anyone wants a specific map/scenario made, let me know, i will give it my best try. I am currently working on ten different maps, i will even put "YOUR" name in the games map for a starting point. Give me some ideas what you'll want. Post in my thread and i will again "try." Now back on topic, Hi.

 

[QES]

Hmm (*about face, comes back to thread*), at risk of offering something that I cannot produce, I'm a programmer of sorts and have been thinking of dabbling in a map script. It would help me shed my current apathy for anything related to computer work, though, if there are any examples or threads in this forum that point such people in the right direction. My biggest problem would be in actually getting started - once there, I'm sure the rest would be mushroom gravy.

- Niilo, burned out computer engineering graduate?

Ask Kael. Though in my estimate he'll tell you to just "tinker around and see what you get" you might be able to ask for more concrete directions.
-Qes

 

[QES]

Is there anyone out there who knows how to Tinker with the map random generator script that might be able to do some of the things we've been talkinga bout? I've no skill at all.
-Qes

 

[Kael]

Ask Kael. Though in my estimate he'll tell you to just "tinker around and see what you get" you might be able to ask for more concrete directions.
-Qes

You know me to well. I havent played with the map scripts at all so I dont have much help to offer. Good luck and Im interested to see what you come up with.

 

[QES]

You know me to well. I havent played with the map scripts at all so I dont have much help to offer. Good luck and Im interested to see what you come up with.

Well. We'll see what braves show up to take on this challange. I can issue em, but i couldnt answer this one.
-Qes

 

[QES]

Hmm (*about face, comes back to thread*), at risk of offering something that I cannot produce, I'm a programmer of sorts and have been thinking of dabbling in a map script. It would help me shed my current apathy for anything related to computer work, though, if there are any examples or threads in this forum that point such people in the right direction. My biggest problem would be in actually getting started - once there, I'm sure the rest would be mushroom gravy.

- Niilo, burned out computer engineering graduate?

I sincerely hope you tinker and find something useful, since im sick of seeing land-locked Lanun, Forest Kahzad, and Desert Ljosalfar. OO....and maybe the "topography" should be younger....not so motely.
-Qes

 

[Sto]

Hello ,

I've never played FFH , just begin to play FFH2 with my friends and can't play without . Even if i'm not a very good map scripter and don't have so much time ( and concentration ) for map scripting at the moment , i want to do something to have a random script that match starting locations and civilizations . There are much things to highlight before that :

- define what's a good plot,terrain,feature,bonus generation for each civ ( any mapscripter that want to work on FFH2 can't play dozens of game to know what's a good start for each civ )
- define what FFH2 does exactly with bonus and feature :
- ex : The ancient forest is not generated by the civ4 feature generator
- ex : Some bonus are not generated by the bonus generator
- ex : I've seen some desert close to river without flood plains (but the constant apearance is stilll 10000 and the feature generator should have put some)

I'm sure i've forgotten a lot of things but these 2 points are essential to begin a random script .

 

[BeefontheBone]

You might want to try asking Sirian about map scripting - he's a lovely guy and I'm sure he'd be willing to help if he's got time. In case you didn't know, he wrote many of the map scripts for vanilla

 

[Sto]

You might want to try asking Sirian about map scripting - he's a lovely guy and I'm sure he'd be willing to help if he's got time. In case you didn't know, he wrote many of the map scripts for vanilla

I don't know if you reply to me but i know exactly what does the vanilla terrain and feature generator (FFH2 don't mod them) ,perhaps i didn't express well . I begin to look at the FFH2 python code to look how they add ancient forest and other bonuses . but i'm not sure all is done in python .That why ,to make a random script , you need to know exactly what FFH2 does with terrain ,feature and bonus outside the classical generation .

Cheers

 

[Kael]

I don't know if you reply to me but i know exactly what does the vanilla terrain and feature generator (FFH2 don't mod them) ,perhaps i didn't express well . I begin to look at the FFH2 python code to look how they add ancient forest and other bonuses . but i'm not sure all is done in python .That why ,to make a random script , you need to know exactly what FFH2 does with terrain ,feature and bonus outside the classical generation .

Cheers

To this point we dont do anything special with the vanilla feature and terrains. We do have 2 new features (new forest and ancient forest) but neither of those is intended to be generated at start so you can assume vanilla map generation will work.

This probably won't be the case after "Fire" where I assume we will eaither need custom scripts or a more aggresive mapchecker that will transform the map activly.

 

[Sto]

Thanks for the info , i've just seen that ancient forest requires a religion . But do you add desert in game ? (I've seen some desert on riverside without food plains and also forest on desert) . Now i just have to define what a good terrain for each civ ... and wait for fire ?? and see what you mean

Tcho !

Edit : No problemo , i've found where you add desert .

 

[QES]

Thanks for the info , i've just seen that ancient forest requires a religion . But do you add desert in game ? (I've seen some desert on riverside without food plains and also forest on desert) . Now i just have to define what a good terrain for each civ ... and wait for fire ?? and see what you mean

Tcho !

Edit : No problemo , i've found where you add desert .

I'm excited to see what you come up with, because I think a great deal of us are itching for a more "topographically correct" starting locations for many of the civs we enjoy in FFH2. Tinker and get back to the thread with any results !
-Qes

 

[Sto]

I think i will try to do something when i'll go back from holidays (at the same time i continue to adapt the public map scripts).

I will also wait to see what is FIRE (KAEL said that need a special implementation for map scripting )

But i'm not a great player (i don't play that much time) .So that would be great if you can post info to help me on what is a good start for each civ :
Ex : dwarf need 20% peak , 30% plains ,some desert ,wheat bonus would be cool or something like that .

That will be usefull to any mapscripter that want to adapt the script to FFH2 without playing it that much .

Tcho!

Edit : to make a map based on the starting location is not so hard ,but this is the opposite of the normal stuff so that need a lot of work !

 

[QES]

I think i will try to do something when i'll go back from holidays (at the same time i continue to adapt the public map scripts).

I will also wait to see what is FIRE (KAEL said that need a special implementation for map scripting )

But i'm not a great player (i don't play that much time) .So that would be great if you can post info to help me on what is a good start for each civ :
Ex : dwarf need 20% peak , 30% plains ,some desert ,wheat bonus would be cool or something like that .

That will be usefull to any mapscripter that want to adapt the script to FFH2 without playing it that much .

Tcho!

Edit : to make a map based on the starting location is not so hard ,but this is the opposite of the normal stuff so that need a lot of work !

While i'd be willing to guess at what each race/civ should get in ways of starting location preferences, I'll leave this to kael, as he knows in certain terms what he wants for his races. I could only guess with conjecture, and I'm hoping he knows how far he wants to take the race-lands premise.
-Qes

 

[Marnid]

Hello QES,
I have an offer and suggestion:
instead of tinkering with the map generator we could use this thread or a new one to post "improved" random maps and random map requests.

I did this for myself with civ3 (because the civ3 map generator was really atrocious), and had a pool of touched up randomly generated maps saved. It takes less than a half hour (for standard size) to improve a random map, and if you haven't seen it before it still a great suprise playing it.

I will make one for you,
but let me know what the basic parameters you desire (specifically):
size
type (pangea / archipeligo / etc...)
# of civs
which civs to include:
# of resources (I can increase or decrease the number of any of these if desired, it might be interesting to play a map with more plentiful mana nodes, espicially when the next version comes out)

What I will do:
1) open up the world builder and generate a random map with the desired parameters, regenerate until you get an interesting looking one.

2) Then make the features more "clumpy" a large desert, a jungle island, large forests, actual mountain ranges

3) Set up new balanced starting locations with appriate terrain for the civs (e.g. Lanun on coast near islands, Malakim in desert, Dwarves near hills mountain ranges, Doviello near tundra, etc...)

If many do this and post the maps in the forum there should be a good selection to choose from.