Orbis 0.30 workshop

[Ahwaric]

UPDATE
Orbis 1.0 approches release. I have some things yet to do (listed below), but I hope to release it next weekend (friday of sturday)

Left to do:
guilds rebalance & icons
civics changes
some unit art needed
some changes to The White Hand & OO
More Tlacatl changes
More spell mastery promotions
Testing & balancing

The original post (as you can see, some things will come another time):
I hope that patch 0.24 N will be the very last patch for 0.24
I hope to slowly start (continue) working on 0.30 and decided to disclose some details, for feedback and advertisement.
It will take some time before 0.30 is ready - RL, you know

So, here it comes. I will add new items when I decide it is time.

Stand-alone install - no longer needs FfH installed

New civs
Dao - you may already know from the thread, I will add more details later. But yes, the civ will finally be in. For now, look for Rualann in leader pedia page in Orbis 24p.
Palatinate - an isolated outpost of old patrian empire, now shaping its future. Look for Siegfried (leaders page).
There is some info in current version already... Just need to dig deep.

Changed civs
Mazatl - renamed to Tlacatl and with redesigned alignment mechanics
Some other...

LENA stuff
Some traits
Unique cults - fanatical devotees of one-civ religions get same penalties as if following a religion
More to come...

New wild animals
For start, some inspired by Rife ones. Though wyrms are planned for a long time...

Octopus ovelrods
see below

Expanded shapeshifting
for channeling 3 - for now I think griphon, flying.

Changes to spell system
do not know what will I be able to add, so no specifics for now
But... how about flying spell? Air3?

Changes to events - see here

As always, balancing - see here

 

[Ahwaric]

0.30 changelog

Moved to stand-alone installer (no longer need proper FfH base)
Updated to FfH 41m code:

• new unit art
• some AI changes (but not much, too much hardcoding that does not apply to Orbis)
• bugfixes

Merged in the latest version of flavour mod[/B] (including new climate model and speed enhancments to hell terrain)

General
Road movement enhancements no longer linear (bigger impact on slow units) - consult the attached "graph" (left to right units from movement 1 to 6, up to bottom: no road, standard road, standard road with engineering, imperial road, railroad - all units started at the route start, railroad has a stack of units with 3 moves or less that ended at the same tile)
Railroads added - movement 8 or more for all units; enabled by steam power tech, iron required
Enhanced informations dsiplayed on some game items (i.e. buildings will now list what replaces them - like palisade)
Added airship unit - req sorcery & square rigging
Added Dao & Palatinate civs
Removed sandworm unit
Added drakes: storm & ice versions. Art from Kohan II, imported by deliverator

Bugfixes
Ranged attacks should no longer cause OOS in multiplayer
Support cost modifications from promotions now correctly updated when promotion is lost
Loosing promotion that grants unique art will no longer revert to basic art if unit has another promotion that grants unique art (i.e. lycanthropy mechanics)

Art
Tons of art fixes (but some new bugs are guaranteeed - art merging is a hard thing)
Some text fixes (some as above)
New malakim units art - late ones more arabic
new shadow art (chanter skin by Neomega)
new arcane units art for bannor, malakim, elohim (archmage) and lanun (mage) by esvath
Kuriotates now use lamias for adepts - art by deliverator
Mechanos musketmen now have melee animations (will use their bayonets if fighting in close combat) - naimation by SaibotLieh

Tech-related
Steam power tech now avaliable to everyone, moved to the end of tech tree, requires machinery and mana theory or physics
Physics requires optics and square rigging or education (clipper - but not zeppelin - still requires square rigging)
Patrian artifacts now revealed by education
Remnants of patria now provide +1 +3 , education bonus removed (but patrian artifacts now usable/visible for everyone)

Spells
Removed promotions from many units that were there only to grant acces to spells (spells still castable)
Removed divine 2 promotion - no longer needed
Added mastery promotions - if caster has such promotion, specified spells are cast with enhanced effect, i.e.
elemental mastery: water walking has duration enhanced by 2 turns, elementals gain extra promotion enhancing their strength & abilities (work in progress)

Guilds
Reduced a bit headquaters yields
Increased maintenance from 25 to 30% of BtS value
Much harder to get rid of maintenance (civics nerfed significantly)
Mercenaries
No longer founded by free mercenary swordsman, need to use great general for that
Written a new hiring model, based on Magnadine special spell (but vastly expanded):
Casting a spell launches an event, which gives a choice of unitcombat to hire (archer, melee, etc. - see picture below), each with different (and quite high) cost, set for the category (not dependent on the technology & spawned unit type)
choosing the option spawns an appropiate unit:

• only tier 2 & 3 allowed (for now)
• based on tech of the player (i.e. for archers bowyers & machinery are checked)
• very likely to span unique units (javelin throwers, dwarven slingers etc.), but basic unit has the highest chance
• many units will start with unique racial promotions, i.e. elven, feral, shaded, dwarf (though some will lack the unique look, i.e. archers with feral promotion)
• unit starts at level 1-4, for each level they gain 1 promotion (so will have 1 promotion more than standard units); the list of possible promotions is different for each unit combat
• every hired unit starts with mercenary promotion - now drains 1 per turn, no matter the level of the unit. The cost is calculated the standard way (so is taken into account for player balance, not applied after calculation, as it was before)
• should be multiplayer friendly (no OOS)
• removed mercenary unit
• removed standard & expanded mercenary spells
• Magnadine can no longer hire units. Instead, he can convert every nearby mercenary to his cause, just as acheron can convert CotD units (loyality makes unit immune to the spell - no killing of the unit)

Forts
Removed fort commander unit & all his special promotions
Only melee & archery units can claim forts now
Melee, archery & siege units get garrison promotion while in fort, enhancing defense & ranged attack

Agnostics
Trait split into two:
humanist - as old agnostic (but the name was misleading), humanists get bonus to relations with each other (as if following the same religion) - Grigori, Dao
cultist - relation penalty to every civ having state religion, or another cultist - Mechanos, Illians, Scions. Some leaders not changed for now (i.e. Raitlor, Publius)

The White Hand
New religion, avaliable to everyone
If illians are in the game, they have to research it before anyone else can (so always have holy city)
Drifa is now one of the religion heroes
Added Kelleigh the frostmaiden - caster hero of White Hand
Removed stir from slumber & the white hand rituals (units buildable now)
White hand changes terrain to tundra (except for illians, malakim & tlacatl) (yes, snow for non-illians is melted too - the gift of the ice god )
1 extra from tundra terrain (except for doviello & illians - the bonuses do not stack)

Octopus overlords (thanks for the ideas & feedback Imuratep!)
Renamed to: The Old Ones
Drown no longer associated with OO - wild unit spawned in exploration only
Lunatic now strength 4/4, starts with crazied, requires message from the deep and temple of overlords, upgrades to berserker, immortal, priest of overlords or stygian guard
Crazed is now a different promotion (old one merged with mad, now not only used by Alcinus)
Crazed randomly grants following promotions (30% chance each): blitz, morale, dance of blades, strength of the deep, weak, held
All promotions granted by crazied will stay for just 1 turn, next turn the set is regenerated
If you got blitz by any other means, it is still permanent (no risk of loosing it)
New promotion - strength of the deep: +2 attack strength, +1 defense, water walking, amphibious
added OO trials (idea by Imuratep):
grip of insanity - caster can gain either crazied or mental clarity (both promotions block another try, the higher the level of the caster, the better chance for clarity)
grip of chaos - requires mental clarity & OO high priest (speaker) - 20% chance for avatar of the old ones, ALWAYS mutates unit (will stack with standard mutation)
Stygian guards no longer demons, require asylum

Kuriotates
Removed Jeweler
Now use standard galleon

Illians
Turn every type of terrain to snow (now including wetlands)

Malakim
Will slowly turn all terrain except snow, tundra & wetland to desert

Mechanos
Old steam power tech renamed mana theory - cost, prerequirements or enabled goods not changed (save for submarine - now/still at steam power)
Added thopter - unique griffon knight (art from dune mod)
Added copter - airship replacement (art from EE II pack by deliverator)
Added clockwork soldier - pikeman replacement
New art for howitzer (EEII pack by deliverator)

Scions
Removed Melante
Removed Melante's residence
Removed Dark Council (was not functional anyway)
Removed Korrina the Black & Red units - merged into Dark Empathy (avaliable at animal handling) & Defender of the Empire (military strategy) promotions - just choose one
Some changes to Korrina promotions and unit itself, also will now get undying no matter which route (black or red) she chooses
Pelemoc, Themoch & Alcinus will now spawn fine in advanced start
Removed exchange
Market now replaced by forum - +10% commerce, +20% great people birth rate, -25% maintenance
Scions Palace now provides 2 instances of patrian artifacts (on top of 1 death mana)
Removed the gift tech (no longer needed)

Sidar
Added shaded promotion - sidar "racial" promotion, +20% death resistance, +10% against undead
All recon units with shaded promotion can now use sever soul ability
removed divided soul unit (was identical to hunter save for sever soul ability)
Added level dependent immortality to all units with shaded ptromotion - 5% per level, capped at 95%
Removed waning & shade unit

Svartalfar
New illusionist art by esvath (old one is now svartalfar archmage)

Tlacatl (formelly known as Mazatl - by the way, did you know that 'Mazatl' means 'deer' and 'Cualli' means 'good'?)
Removed jungledwelling tech (was hidden, lizard only)
Removed trails
Removed lizard shaper (normal worker instead, can't plant jungle)
Will slowly change climate to tropical (turns all terrain except wetland to grassland, forest to jungle)

New XML tags
The current source files are attached below - in case anyone needs them. These are not final 0.30 sources, but I will try to update these from time to time - current version 22/02/2010
CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
ReplacesBuildingClasses - when build, this building removes listed buildingclasses from the city and prevents building them
AlignmentRequired - alignment requirement on a building, when alignment changes building is removed
GuildYieldModifier - the building modifies yields if the specified guild is in the city
CIV4EventTriggerInfos.xml
PrereqCivilization can specify the only civ that can trigger this event (used by Scion heroes only atm)
CIV4ReligionInfo.xml
ReligionClimateType - changes climate if the religion is state, no effect on civs that change it on their own
ReligionTerrainYields - enhances yields of specified terrain, no effect it the terrain is already enhanced by civ info
CIV4FeatureInfos.xml
Permanent - used to mark features not removed by bulding a city
CivilizationNeeded- will upgrade to this feature only if in territory of the specified civ (used for deep jungle in tlacatl territory)
CIV4TraitInfos.xml
bCultist - used for cultist trait
CIV4SpellInfos.xml
rewritten prerequnitcombat tag to allow multiple unitcombats
UnitsIgnorePromotion allows specified multiple units to ignore promotion requirement on spells (so can cast even if does not have the promotion)
CIV4PromotionInfos.xml
rewritten promotionrandomapply to allow granting multiple promotions
promotionrandomapplyduration - allows setting duration on applied ptomotions (interfers with duration expiration, so promotions using it need to come last in xml)
bLevelDependentImmortal - immortality based on unit level, the higher the level, the better the chance, generated at the start of every turn (so reloading does not help)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

im excited about the Dao!

 

[A Golden Dragon]

you said you were going to merge some stuff from LENA, will it be in 0.30 aswell?

 

[Ahwaric]

you said you were going to merge some stuff from LENA, will it be in 0.30 aswell?

Yes, just was writing fast and fergot to put that in.
There will be some stuff. Not sure how much, we need to agree on how things should work with Opera.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

well lately, i've been seeing LENA as a place for mayor changes, mostly concerning leaders and civ's

while orbis was more balancing out stuff (very necessary at that moment)

and i think that worked great, so i think you should get the stuff that has been developed enough, and balance it in orbis, and remain developing new stuff in LENA.

not saying you have to do all the work on orbis, or opera on LENA, you could both do both. but this would have to be something you both agree in. (and that would probably lead to some discussions on what should be in orbis and what not)

This way you have a very balanced orbis, while still maintaining it's development (by LENA)


but that's just a thought

 

[Bootsiuv]

1) New animals, some more fantasy-oriented, sounds like a great idea!! Don't forget sea monsters, as it stands now, the oceans are an extremely boring part of the game.

2) New/redesigned civic system is a must IMO. Orbis civics, while preferable to base as far as I'm concerned, still try to do too much. The religion civics are sort of lame as well. Why not just roll it into the actual religion?

3) A flying spell is LOOOONNNGGG overdue, I'd say. I would also like to see some cross-sphere spells possible. Only 3rd level spells, i.e. only archmages, lichs, druids, and heroes would be able to cast them. This is more of a wish for me, and if it becomes too convuluted, we could just do away with such things. I just always loved gold cards when I played magic the gathering.

 

[civ_king]

Cool!

 

[Cloner4000]

As it stands now, there isn't really a route for civics that shows the type of training for each civilization. Maybe you can implement something like that?

The religion civics are pretty powerful and sort of fits the flavor of the religion, but it has make civs without religion at a lot disadvantage.

 

[Ahwaric]

Long time no update here...

well lately, i've been seeing LENA as a place for mayor changes, mostly concerning leaders and civ's
while orbis was more balancing out stuff (very necessary at that moment)

not saying you have to do all the work on orbis, or opera on LENA, you could both do both. but this would have to be something you both agree in. (and that would probably lead to some discussions on what should be in orbis and what not)

Well, LENA is Opera's personal project. And as you might know, I am a bit reluctant in adding new stuff.
So, Opera is testing her ideas in LENA where she does not need to limit herself with my complains. But that does not mean that I am not going to add new things on my own to Orbis. In fact, that is what 0.30 is mostly about - and Opera helps with ideas & coding.
We plan to keep it that way.

1) New animals, some more fantasy-oriented, sounds like a great idea!! Don't forget sea monsters, as it stands now, the oceans are an extremely boring part of the game.

Yes, I want the seas more alive. Will see what I can do about it.

2) New/redesigned civic system is a must IMO. Orbis civics, while preferable to base as far as I'm concerned, still try to do too much. The religion civics are sort of lame as well. Why not just roll it into the actual religion?

The religion civics are pretty powerful and sort of fits the flavor of the religion, but it has make civs without religion at a lot disadvantage.

The whole system is being redesigned. That is why I started separate thread.

I would also like to see some cross-sphere spells possible. Only 3rd level spells, i.e. only archmages, lichs, druids, and heroes would be able to cast them.

Not sure about cross-sphere, but I want to improve spell selection. Not sure when I will do it though...

Also, please check the second post here from time to time. The changelog for 0.30 is there.

 

[AvataroftheAnge]

what about multiplayer fixes to help prevent OOS?

great work so far. I just really want to play with my cousin

 

[Ahwaric]

I will try to add OOS testing pack with the patch 0.24 O - especially related to ranged attacks which seem to be the worst offenders right now.

By the way, as you can see there will be patch O. It will contain current 0.30 changelog, as it contains moslty fixes and rebalancement.

But I am still working on 0.30.
So, a few more questions:

• Mazatl path system - do you like it? does it help gameplay, falvour etc? Or maybe it can be removed without much loss (I am tempted to do so)
• Melante - is she really usefull? The options are, in general: removed, removed but her residence as buildable national wonder, kept as is.

Forgot the other ones... Will add them later...

 

[Wauthan]

The Mazatl paths can be safely removed. They already got double movement in jungles so it's not like movement will be an issue. To tell the truth I can't really envision how these paths are different from normal roads. Hidden by magic?

 

[Kalina]

Mazatl path system - do you like it? does it help gameplay, falvour etc? Or maybe it can be removed without much loss (I am tempted to do so)

It's mostly flavour thing, I think. With path, enemy Commando units still can't travel fast within Mazatl borders. It's not very important in most games, only when fighting dark elves it have some significance.

Melante - is she really usefull? The options are, in general: removed, removed but her residence as buildable national wonder, kept as is.

I like her and her residence, but it's not terribly important. Only if you want to make super-city with residence, dark council (it's already removed, right ?), Alcinus Keep and then moving capital there If she causes any trouble, I believe you can remove her, though I'd prefer her residence to stay.

 

[arstal]

I'd like to see the Lena leaders added if possible down the road.

As for animals, I'd like to see some of the Wild Mana animals added- but keep barbs/animals as is- I hate how Wildmana overpowers barbs/animals.

As for new spell- how about replacing Wonder with Teleport Other, or Polymorph spell?

Polymorph may be fairer- have it randomly take the best defender and try to change it into another unit at random? Maybe make it useable on your own troops- turn your warriors into something random.

 

[Alzara]

I'd like to see the Lena leaders added if possible down the road.

WOOT! Definately! The LENA leaders are so cool

 

[Breez]

• Mazatl path system - do you like it? does it help gameplay, falvour etc? Or maybe it can be removed without much loss (I am tempted to do so)

I admit the following issues are from FF not Orbis forgive me is somethign as changed, but I have not gotten to play the lizards yet in Orbis

Personally I hate their trails. If I conquer their area I have to get terraform a lot of the area AND rebuild all roads. If I am the lizards and I capture a foreign worker they don't build the trails and over write them to roads, only to have a lizard worker reover write them to trails again.

I think they add nothing to my game experience but annoyance no matter which side I am on.

 

[Ahwaric]

Ok, new ideas

Octopus Overlords
For some time I think Overlords are strange combination - religion based on dreams (nightmares) and having mindless undead/demons as main unique units?
Also, it is very strong on military side, while providing not that much on other fronts.

How about moving them more into dreams and insainty? And make it more water religion?

Reasoning:
Octopus ovelrords is not a demonic religion, nor necromantic one. It is a religion of Danalin, but twisted by nightmares he dreams influenced by Mammon.
I think it should not be religion of demons operating openly, but rather influencing mortals. It is Mammon's, not some mindless rage demon influence after all.
Also, we already have one religion with demons operating openly and bringing hell. OO should be more different. Less evil, or at least not so openly.
Don't you think that it is strange if Mercurians adopt OO and use stygian guards to eradicate demons?

Proposals (perhaps shocking...):
Remove drown & stygian guards.
Enhance role of lunatics and perhaps add another unit of mind flavour (dreamer? - a mage that shapes reality by his dreams...)
Saverous no longer a demon, simply twisted, crazied & converted during the time he spent in asylum...
OO priests can cast water walking
Incorporate slumbering coven to religion itself, maybe add some more simillar changes.
Magic - water, chaos & mind, not death, body & such.

So what do you think? Any other ideas?

The whole idea come with our discussions on what OO really is. After thinking some more, I decided that I like Operas vision more than the canonical one. So you might as well say it is Opera's idea

 

[Bootsiuv]

Keep the drowns and the guards, no?

They fit well with the twisted water religion theme....

I've always thought saverous was extremely boring, but I wouldn't change him at all (he is who he is afterall, and has already been created).

Rather I would just create an entirely new hero for the religion....I rather enjoy this idea, and always thought some things about OO seemed a little weird.

 

[Ahwaric]

Keep the drowns and the guards, no?
They fit well with the twisted water religion theme....

I think that guards and drowns are the most weird and non-fitting part of the religion. It is a religion worshiping Danalin nightmares, and indirectly Hastur and his master, Mammon.
Indirectly
There is no place for demons entering the world. Otherwise I think Basium should be barred from following OO. So no stygian guards. And I do not think possesions are very likely either (Saverous)
Mammon does not have control over Danalin - he is still neutral. But Hastur influences his nightmares, and Krakens are the nightmares come true. Cultists use dreams and mind magic to take control over people. Or make them crazy.

But Drown?
Undead. No dreams. No mind at all. Reanimated by what, death magic? Some twisted body magic? How that has anything to do with Danalin? Or even Mammon, it is not his domain (mind & greed).

So there is a big rift in OO. Hemah, Asylums & Lunatics fit the falvour perfectly. Drown, stygian guards, and to lesser extent saverous do not. I want to remove that rift and make OO really different in spirit from AV.

We can use drwon & stygians elsewhere, but I do not want these as part of OO.
I know it was there for a long time and people probably got used to and like drown. But I think water walking lunatics can be more fun, while drown can be used elsewhere. Also, I would add another unit.
That will be different OO, less focused on military but stronger in other aspects. I think that strong military and death & entropy spells are better left for Agares. Mammon has more finesse. Just as esus, but in a much different way