Other Enjoyable Civilization V Games (Immortal and below)

[Nizef]

Hello everybody,

Looking back at what has been achieved in the neighbouring Enjoyable Deity Games thread, it just struck me that maybe there is interest for something similar on other difficulty levels as well. For this first experiment I chose King, since it is a nice casual level. I will not be uploading as regularly as in the Deity thread, but I would like to read about your thoughts on a thread like this. Do we need it or not? Please leave some feedback!

What do we have here? The map is an unmodded Pangaea map with Quick speed and Small size and the civ to play is Russia. QC and QM are turned on and all VCs are enabled. In a way, I wanted to copy some of the features from the multiplayer environment, albeit in a single player format. You can obviously go in any direction you want but the designed VC is Culture Victory. You have a fantastic starting location and a nice nearby NW to settle with your first expand. Even if this game is unmodded (and I also submitted my game), the vicinity of the nearby NW looks odd. Three tiles that looks like plains tiles are actually mountains. Otherwise, I think you will enjoy this map. There are pictures from the starting location and from my win and obviously you will also find the game save to play down below. Enjoy!

As a comparison, I won my game on t167, using a very straightforward strategy. I had two expands out very quickly, didn´t go for GL nor SH. Instead I built ToA and Hanging Gardens. 3 city NC on t57 and I reached Education on t73. I settled one more city after NC. From there on I think I more or less built all wonders in the game and the tech path was Printing Press-Acoustics-Industrialization-Archeology-Refridgeration. Out of sheer boredom, I also conquered Ankara and Edirne from the Ottomans and eliminated Enrico alltogether. He had to go since he converted one of my cities and showed me the finger when I asked him to stop. I needed just two GMus into english territory to win and the easiest way to do so, was to gift Kathmandu to Elizabeth and then declare war to get my GMus inside her borders.

 

[mbbcam]

Nice idea to have a series of games for less experienced players.

Just thinking out loud, I wonder if there is an opportunity to use such a series as a teaching/learning device to show players how they can progress to higher levels. So one could demonstrate strategies, certain mechanics that are not in the manual (like loans and bribing, worker baiting, etc.). If that were an objective of the series, perhaps it might be better to stick to Standard Size, Standard Speed.

Thinking about it, there is a surprising lack of organised "teaching" material in the forums. The War Academy is a bit out of date now, and I don't know how you would find out about worker stealing, worker baiting, or getting loans if you didn't know that such possibilities existed. And I have never come across an exhaustive list of how much the AI will pay for certain things. I had to discover some of these by accident, and I still don't know what some of the values are. But in any case, I think the series is a good idea.

 

[Tiberiu]

Hi, I think this can be interesting, why not. It could be good for trying out unconventional things that you'd never pick up in deity games (like heathen conversion reformation belief for example) or for just playing a relaxed game without the "stress" a harder game can bring. My personal favourite non-deity difficulty is what I call "custom difficulty", where I play on diff 5,6, or 7 but with some self-enforced handicaps to make the game a sort of " fair deity" - harder than normal but where you can actually build a few extra wonders like notre dame or great wall.

You got me curious with this game, I will play it after I finish a game that I'm playing. I wanna take Piety and try to make it work, it should be achievable on King. gg on T167, seems fast enough. I want to try a CV without refrigeration and I am curious if I can make it work.

 

[FritsF1]

Thanks for this thread. I like reading the EDGE thread. It is fun to play a game and read how others handled the same game. Currently I am not at the level to share my games (still trying to get my second Deity win). It would be nice to have a place for less experienced players to share their games.

I like the idea of a teaching/learning thread like mbbcam suggest. In the past I played on a more casual level (mostly king). The last 6 month I am trying to improve my game. There is a lot to be learned from the war academy articles, but there is no active discussion. I don’t know how many players are trying to improve their game right now. Most players new to the civilization series start with civ6 nowadays I suppose…

 

[raider980]

I really like this idea. Deity, deity all the time gets kind of monotonous. This will give an opportunity to play differently, use some policy trees that we don't normally use - like we were talking about in another thread regarding the starting policies - I can use ones besides my comfort zone of Tradition.

I've been wanting to try a Piety start; although CV with small map and quick speed I'm not sure is the best place to try that. Could try sacred sites but not sure if that works on a small map. Actually, I'm not sure how map size scales - since they subtract/add AI and CS, do you actually get less room on small and more room on large?

 

[Nizef]

I really like this idea. Deity, deity all the time gets kind of monotonous. This will give an opportunity to play differently, use some policy trees that we don't normally use - like we were talking about in another thread regarding the starting policies - I can use ones besides my comfort zone of Tradition.

I've been wanting to try a Piety start; although CV with small map and quick speed I'm not sure is the best place to try that. Could try sacred sites but not sure if that works on a small map. Actually, I'm not sure how map size scales - since they subtract/add AI and CS, do you actually get less room on small and more room on large?

Basically you might get more room on bigger maps. In OECG1 with Russia, I would argue that you can settle 3-5 cities comfortably and if you use a shoehorn you could even settle six. On King there is no need to settle more cities yourself, since you can take any AI/CS city at will. Piety will work just fine on this map. Remember to build the Aqueducts relatively early, if you do so. I agree that it is nice to be able to do more variation. It is such a nice feeling to pick up a couple of those early wonders...

Nice idea to have a series of games for less experienced players.

Just thinking out loud, I wonder if there is an opportunity to use such a series as a teaching/learning device to show players how they can progress to higher levels. So one could demonstrate strategies, certain mechanics that are not in the manual (like loans and bribing, worker baiting, etc.). If that were an objective of the series, perhaps it might be better to stick to Standard Size, Standard Speed.

Thinking about it, there is a surprising lack of organised "teaching" material in the forums. The War Academy is a bit out of date now, and I don't know how you would find out about worker stealing, worker baiting, or getting loans if you didn't know that such possibilities existed. And I have never come across an exhaustive list of how much the AI will pay for certain things. I had to discover some of these by accident, and I still don't know what some of the values are. But in any case, I think the series is a good idea.

Thanks! Based on the first few comments, it seems there might be a demand for this. I would greatly appreciate, if less experienced players would comment as well. The learning experience would definitely be a key factor here. I used Quick Speed to be able to finish faster. Of course, most basic rules still apply. I think I used Scoutx2, Settler, Worker, Granary, Settler as my early BO (just to clarify things, if any reader is interested).

 

[Nizef]

Hi, I think this can be interesting, why not. It could be good for trying out unconventional things that you'd never pick up in deity games (like heathen conversion reformation belief for example) or for just playing a relaxed game without the "stress" a harder game can bring. My personal favourite non-deity difficulty is what I call "custom difficulty", where I play on diff 5,6, or 7 but with some self-enforced handicaps to make the game a sort of " fair deity" - harder than normal but where you can actually build a few extra wonders like notre dame or great wall.

You got me curious with this game, I will play it after I finish a game that I'm playing. I wanna take Piety and try to make it work, it should be achievable on King. gg on T167, seems fast enough. I want to try a CV without refrigeration and I am curious if I can make it work.

I think you could do it without Refridgeration but would you need Authocracy&Futurism, or what were you thinking?

 

[vadalaz]

Finished #1 with a T82 Sacred Sites CV

Spoiler :

Pure Piety, Scout - Worker opener, Mining first to improve all the Salt tiles as soon as possible. Sold two Salts in peace deals and bought a settler to grab Mt Kailash. Meanwhile I grew the capital to size 5 and built a spearman for CS tributes. Later I had to build another one because the Aztecs were competing for #1 army score in demographics. Stole a worker from Kathmandu, didn't bother with any more steals because you don't need that many tile improvements with Sacred Sites, as cities just stay at 1 pop and work a hill or a faith tile.

Spoiler :

Kailash city BO was Shrine - Settler (starved the city back to 1 pop afterwards), others went Shrine - Monument / Temple - Army. Standard Sacred Sites religion with Earth Mother / +100g / Mosques / Monasteries / IP, enhanced with the free Great Prophet from Piety.

Venice puppeted Yerevan very quickly, which I think is a bit unusual for King. I took the city from Enrico and farmed a Great General, which completed a CS quest and allowed me to take Incense from Florence with a citadel.

Montezuma was the culture leader, so I gifted him a city for an easy trade route. If you do this, gift him a luxury first to make sure he has the happiness to keep the city, otherwise he'll just raze it.

 

[Tiberiu]

Finished # 1 with T171 CV played with self-enforced handicap of No industrial era + No Sacred Sites. Congratulations to Vadalaz who posted before me, SS is really strong and fun on King.

Spoiler :

@Nizef : I wanted to test the strenght of Religious Art+World Religion+ Cultural Heritage Sites but since World Religion doesn't convert culture to tourism like the hotel or airport do, it was taking too long so I had to capture some civs and left the Aztecs who had lowest culture to beat. Made huge mistake by discovering Metallurgy instead of Navigation, and I was too late to use Oxford, I would have entered the industrial era. Otherwise frigates would have captured London who had Great Wall much sooner. Used a lot of Workers+Lancers as army, since workers built roads in 1 turn and repairs the same. Improved my opinion of Lancers slightly, they're not so fragile as I remembered them in pre-BNW.

 

[Nizef]

Finished #1 with a T82 Sacred Sites CV

Spoiler :

Pure Piety, Scout - Worker opener, Mining first to improve all the Salt tiles as soon as possible. Sold two Salts in peace deals and bought a settler to grab Mt Kailash. Meanwhile I grew the capital to size 5 and built a spearman for CS tributes. Later I had to build another one because the Aztecs were competing for #1 army score in demographics. Stole a worker from Kathmandu, didn't bother with any more steals because you don't need that many tile improvements with Sacred Sites, as cities just stay at 1 pop and work a hill or a faith tile.

Spoiler :

View attachment 570052

Kailash city BO was Shrine - Settler (starved the city back to 1 pop afterwards), others went Shrine - Monument / Temple - Army. Standard Sacred Sites religion with Earth Mother / +100g / Mosques / Monasteries / IP, enhanced with the free Great Prophet from Piety.

Venice puppeted Yerevan very quickly, which I think is a bit unusual for King. I took the city from Enrico and farmed a Great General, which completed a CS quest and allowed me to take Incense from Florence with a citadel.

Montezuma was the culture leader, so I gifted him a city for an easy trade route. If you do this, gift him a luxury first to make sure he has the happiness to keep the city, otherwise he'll just raze it.

I know this is King/Quick but I still had to laugh when I read your report. Fantastic finishing time!

Finished # 1 with T171 CV played with self-enforced handicap of No industrial era + No Sacred Sites. Congratulations to Vadalaz who posted before me, SS is really strong and fun on King.

Spoiler :

@Nizef : I wanted to test the strenght of Religious Art+World Religion+ Cultural Heritage Sites but since World Religion doesn't convert culture to tourism like the hotel or airport do, it was taking too long so I had to capture some civs and left the Aztecs who had lowest culture to beat. Made huge mistake by discovering Metallurgy instead of Navigation, and I was too late to use Oxford, I would have entered the industrial era. Otherwise frigates would have captured London who had Great Wall much sooner. Used a lot of Workers+Lancers as army, since workers built roads in 1 turn and repairs the same. Improved my opinion of Lancers slightly, they're not so fragile as I remembered them in pre-BNW.

View attachment 570077

View attachment 570078 View attachment 570079

Very interesting experiment. I guess you got what you were aiming for!?

 

[zxcvbob]

Awesome idea for a thread. I had a game last month (Emperor level, I think) that I had to play about 3 times with different strategies before I finally won. Great Plains map, and I don't remember the leader. But I kept the turn 0 file somewhere, let me see if I can find it. Meanwhile, I will try the one you posted

 

[zxcvbob]

I played the Russia game twice. First time, I played basically a science game rushing towards hotels, National Visitor Center, and Internet. That took 237 turns, which is kinda pathetic, but it was fun. You'll see in the screen shot that I captured Istanbul. Sulieman declared war on me, and that didn't turn out so well for him. I was already influential over the Ottomans, but they don't show up on the leader board because China put them out of their misery (Florence) shortly after I took his capital.

Second play through, I decided to try Sacred Sites (plus the Parthenon.) I can rarely get that to work, but I think I just don't go at it fast enough. This time it worked, although not as fast as @vadalaz, 106 turns isn't bad. Once again Sulieman backstabbed me and he *almost* captured Moscow this time, but I beat him back and he gave me Ankara in the peace treaty -- and I annexed it, starved it, and bought another mosque and pagoda.



Here's the game I had so much trouble with (in a good way) 2 months ago. I don't remember a lot about that game, other than some of the neighbors. (Hmmm, I can't just paste an image from the clipboard) The Maya, large Great Plains Plus map, emperor level, epic pace, raging barbarians, any victory.



I remember I was experimenting with an atlatl rush. They are weak units, but available right from the start and they are cheap, so really kinda OP for a short while in the ancient era.

 

[Nizef]

Let´s call bob´s map above as OECG#2.

 

[Caracal]

I downloaded PKSmRussia I'm missing a DLC, I went to steam and I have all DLCs except Scrambled Map Pack and Scrambled Nations Map Pack. Is this game created with either of those? Steam will let me have them for $3.30 so I'm willing to pick them up. I might anyway - I'm such a compleatest

 

[Nizef]

The nations needed: Aztecs, China, England, Ottomans, Russia and Venice.

 

[zxcvbob]

The game I uploaded might need all the map packs too; I didn't create it intending to share it, it was just a particularly good random game I played, so I did not disable any unused DLC. (sorry about that, but not all that sorry

 

[Caracal]

No worries. I bought the map packs and I can open the game file. I was reading through the thread and I saw this:

Finished #1 with a T82 Sacred Sites CV

I didn't know what a "Sacred Sites" CV was or how it could be possible to even get close to a CV win by T82. I figured out Sacred Sites CV after thinking about it a bit. The quick CV dawned on me when I looked at the victory screen shot. Amazing, I will give it a shot.

Follow up: I stopped on turn 105 I had 4 of 5 influential (or better). I didn't meet England unti turn 50 or so and they keep spamming wonders and had quite a bit of culture. It was going to take a while to get influential with them. I was going to get there eventually. The game was, shall we say, educational but not a very satisfying way to play. I don't think I'll be doing that again.

 

[TMNTurtle]

I tried very hard to come up with something different for a CV for OECG#1, but I failed and so just took everyones capitals instead.

Spoiler OECG#1 - T97 DomV :

BO: scoutx2, monument, start caravan, granary/worker, archerx2, finish caravan, stonehenge (+2 workers bought)

Capital sweep: T55 Venice, T70ish istanbul, T83 Beijing, T92 London, T97 Tenochtitlan

Tech Pace: T81 machinery, T95 Chivalry

Policies: Liberty left side + citizenship, piety->reformation (Heathen conversion)

I skipped the NW since I already had stonehenge and settled east for better production and north for the chocolate and proximity to Venice. Moving to Istanbul I kept forgetting about the invisible mountains every time I pressed end turn, but eventually got there. Machinery got delayed a few turns since my enormous army upkeep took a toll on the science until I could reach good pillage-repair territory and also delete a few superflous workers.

Critical mass seems to be 2-3 spears and 3-5 chariots on king difficulty. Could've been faster with a better sweep order going for Istanbul and then either reinforce and split up or alternatively send a second army for Venice and China for example.

Unfortunately even though there should still be some barbs lurking I didn't find a single one in search of redemption.

5 WWs built: Stonehenge, Pyras, ToA, Mausoleum, Terracotta A

4 WWs captured: GL, GL, Parthenon, Colossus

Edit: found where the save file was hiding, here's a screen shot, including the barb I was looking for:

I also tried really hard to make peaceful liberty+piety work on OECG#2, but I don't think this was the map for it.

Spoiler OECG#2 - T145 concede :

The starting terrain is really flat and poor for a plains map and there aren't enough luxes. Going to war is probably liberty's best bet here, at least I couldn't get the smiles I needed and tech was lagging. Would've completed 5city NC post T140something, but decided to just give up. Should've planted fewer cities and started spamming CBs.

Thanks for the maps!

 

[zxcvbob]

I've played OECG#2 lots of time.

Spoiler The key to it seems to be... :

how to handle Greece, just to your south. If I don't cripple him early, he attacks me with a huge army of hoplites, catapults, and horses. If I kill him, everybody hates me and pretty soon the whole world declares a joint war on me. What has worked best for me is Honor opener (for barbs), then Liberty. Capture Athens early, but leave Alex with one city and no military. He'll rebuild, but he is so far behind someone else will kill him and then they are the pariah. You can be their only friend for a while, but eventually declare war and take their good cities, leaving the crumbs for some other patsy. Then repeat. Do a lot of liberating. This is a very violent map

My best time is a little over 500 turns; science victory with a lot of limited wars. Honor opener, Liberty, either Aesthetics or Commerce, Freedom.

Spoiler :

There are not enough luxuries, so happiness and gold get a little dicey for a while midgame. Order might be better, but there is no coal until near the end. There's also no oil, no aluminum, no uranium

 

[Nizef]

OECG#3: Keep those wonders coming

Once in a while I just have to go down the wonder spamming route. There is probably not many better civs to do that with than Egypt. Again I chose a Pangaea map with small size and quick speed. We play on Emperor level and the AIs were handpicked, mostly for some resemblance of regional relevancy. You will have a nice starting location and two-three wonderful places for expansions. All VCs are enabled and QM and QC are turned on as usual. You can go in any direction you want but there is a secondary target: build as many wonders yourself as you possibly can. As a benchmark, I built 17 wonders (Broadway, Christo, Eiffel, Forbidden, GlobeT, Great wall, Hagia Sofia, HGardens, LToP, Louvre, Machu, Notre Dame, Oracle, Sistine, SoL, Taj Mahal and Uffizi) in the capital and 2 (Porcelain and Red fort) in Heliopolis, so 19 in total. I won a CV on t188 without trying to finish, I just wanted to build and have fun. In addition I kicked Askia out of the game. I am sure you will enjoy this one!