[NFP] Pack1: Maya and Grand Colombia

[Zaarin]

Latin American representation is exciting, but choosing the short-lived Gran Colombia over, say, Argentina, Cuba, or Mexico is a bit of an odd choice. Ah well.

I would have preferred Muisca, or else Argentina if we must have a postcolonial civ, but I understand that Bolivar has appeal to some people. If he's going to make any Civ game, Civ6 is the logical place for it. (Love your username, btw; A Canticle for Leibowitz is one of my favorite books. )

 

[bengalryan9]

I'm hoping for a slinger replacement but with throwing spears/javelins for the Maya. Hoping they will be called "Hul'che" instead of Atlatlst.
Give them some kind of ability that makes them more useful than archers so you can keep them until Crossbows.

Llanero (Curassier replacement) for Gran Colombia. Basically South American cowboys that fought in the Latin American Wars of Independence.

Not sure I want a slinger replacement... their window for use is so short. I wouldn't mind an archer replacement that has a sling, though.

 

[durfal]

He even got a whole country named after him ( Bolivia) even if it wasn't part of Gran Colombia. That's how big his impact was on Latin America.

 

[Zaarin]

Not sure I want a slinger replacement... their window for use is so short. I wouldn't mind an archer replacement that has a sling, though.

If they're better and cheaper than Archers, you may well want to keep them around until you have Crossbows. Also slings and bolas were more of an Andean thing. The Mayan UU should definitely have a javelin.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not sure I want a slinger replacement... their window for use is so short. I wouldn't mind an archer replacement that has a sling, though.

Which is why I want some ability that makes them useful in certain situations so that they don't need to be replaced so early by the archers.
Historically it makes sense that that any Mesoamerican spearthrower unit would be a starting unit, which is why I suggested the slinger.

 

[Morningcalm]

Lady Six Sky better be having a rad headpiece grander than of Montezuma's

Maybe something like this?


(Scene from Mel Gibson's Apocalypto film, photo from The Guardian's article on the movie)

 

[ehecatzin]

Maybe something like this?


(Scene from Apocalypto, photo from The Guardian's article on the movie)

please God no, anything but Apocalypto, dammed be Mel Gibson and his anachronistic fantasies. Maybe something more like this:

Spoiler :

artist is Daniel Parada, he has a lot of interesting mesoamerican illustrations.

 

[Zaarin]

Which is why I want some ability that makes them useful in certain situations so that they don't need to be replaced so early by the archers.
Historically it makes sense that that any Mesoamerican spearthrower unit would be a starting unit, which is why I suggested the slinger.

Javelin's thrown from a spearthrower/atlatl hit hard; one could definitely justify an Archer replacement. However, they're also simpler to build than bows, justifying a Slinger replacement that makes Archers unnecessary.

anything but Apocalypto

Seconded. Civ5's Pacal looked ridiculous, as does Civ6's Monty.

 

[Morningcalm]

please God no, anything but Apocalypto, dammed be Mel Gibson and his anachronistic fantasies. Maybe something more like this:

Spoiler :

artist is Daniel Parada, he has a lot of interesting mesoamerican illustrations.

But how do we know Parada's illustrations are more accurate?

 

[leandrombraz]

I had a nice idea while I was thinking about Gran Colombia possible abilities: A Civ with a unique general that has more range and a stronger buff, similar to Alexander in Conquests of Alexander. You either start the game with this General or you unlock it instantly when you finish your first encampment.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Javelin's thrown from a spearthrower/atlatl hit hard; one could definitely justify an Archer replacement. However, they're also simpler to build than bows, justifying a Slinger replacement that makes Archers unnecessary.

If slingers weren't a universal unit in the game, I agree they would be a good archer replacement available right at the start of the game, like they were for Civ 5. But because archers aren't the earliest ranged unit anymore is why I went with the slinger, and I think that a spearthrower would make a good starting unit like they were in Civ 5.

 

[ehecatzin]

But how do we know Parada's illustrations are more accurate?

well you can look at Mayan codex and sculptures and compare by yourself... For example...this is Pakal the great.

Civ 5 is literally copy pasted from Apocalypto...and Monty is pure fantasy

 

[Morningcalm]

well you can look at Mayan codex and sculptures and compare by yourself... For example...this is Pakal the great.

Civ 5 is literally copy pasted from Apocalypto...and Monty is pure fantasy

It's always difficult to compare to the originals--most Maya reliefs, codices, etc. give some sense of the headdress, nose ornaments, and other such, but are less instructive as to 3D modeling (Pacal's head being an exception).

Agreed that Civ 5 copied from Apocalypto--to be fair though, Aztec leader representations have almost always been worse. I even prefer the child Pacal in Civ 4 to the ball dancer rulers we've had Montezuma shown as (though Civ V had a dramatic voice actor to ameliorate the situation at least).

 

[ehecatzin]

It's hard to research I give you that but not impossible, if you combine both codex, paintings (mural and pottery) and scultpures you can get a pretty good idea of what the headresses looked like.

another one, just because I so very want to be wrong on this and we actually get a somewhat accurate depiction this time.

 

[Veras]

The thing with the combo Gran Colombia/Bolivar is much more about the legacy of a political and revolutionary movement of continental proportions than about a country and its leader.

 

[Nassim]

The biggest issue I'd see with a TSL Americas map is it wouldn't really work with any of their current map sizes which are all more wide than tall. They could do something like cut off most of Canada and the like, but that still would be a stretch. I don't know how well their engine handles custom map sizes.

Flip the axis 90° and it should work though

 

[mitsho]

Latin American representation is exciting, but choosing the short-lived Gran Colombia over, say, Argentina, Cuba, or Mexico is a bit of an odd choice. Ah well.

Argentina would for sure get Evita as a leader just so they could model Madonna, so you might have dodged a bullet there. Mexico is too close to the Aztecs and Cuba would get Fidel Castro, maybe too soon? I‘m happy with Simon, a name we havent had so far. But i just now that i will not enjoy playing as that civ unless they make late game starts more exciting.

Disappointed that they went with the stereotype of scientific Mayans again. And it just again shows the limitations of civ 6‘s restricted civilization system. Im going to buy them though anyways...

 

[Socrates-]

You guys think that playing as Maya will cause the game to end at 2012?

The choice for Gran Colombia is quite interesting. Assuming Simon Bolivar will be the leader I'm looking forward on how his historical legacy will be implemented in the game.

 

[Josephias]

What we know from screenshots:

Gran Colombia: unique improvement similar to the Australian one

Yep, that looks likely to be an Hacienda, probably, which seems fitting for a Colonial independence civ (remember, it was the rich colonial landowners who got the independence, not the natives).

Someone suggested it may be like an outback station for plantations (maybe with gold instead of production bonuses?). It seems quite possible.

 

[Krajzen]

Now hands up, who seriously expected Gran Colombia to appear in civ6 at this point? When I first saw the name of the thread (when I came here not knowing aby recent reveals) for a while I didn't realize it's s discussion about a confirmed, coming civ because GC seemed so unlikely lol.

I like it, as Spanish Latin America is routinely bypassed by popular history, and good luck if we are not even talking about Mexico or Argentina. On the other hand, I'd prefer Muisca or ya know less than FIVE colonial civilizations in one civ game but oh well, at least this time it isn't Anglophone.

Though if we won't get anything from Maghreb and therefore only 3 explicitely Islamic* civilizations out of 50 (compared with aforementioned 5 colonies with independent lifespan of 200 years of less, 4 English cultures in total) I'll be really disappointed.

* - Arabia, Ottomans, Mali. Ancient "pagan" Egypt, Sumer, Nubia, Persia, Phoenicia obviously don't count lol, neither does Indonesia from its Indianized era. Though I am still convinced Islamic era Iran was always much more impressive civilization than Achaemenid empire in every metric other than brutal size. But in Western video games Persia is somehow almost always equated with that one classical era empire.