PH09: The King and We

[Simon_c]

Checking in.

My first SG game, and my first BtS game (Assuming my copy is waiting for me at the postal sorting office, after being delayed all week due to those nice chaps at the royal mail being on strike !! If it's not there, then there could be an early skip or two...)

For background, I'm a solid prince player on vanilla and warlords and lately I can normally claw a victory out on monarch.

I'm PM the team with my direct emails when I get a chance.

No tech trading will be a challenge too


So, replying to the comments so far.

Maybe early religion and an Oracle-CoL sling to unlock our UB. We'd be competing w/Saladin for the first religion, but hopefully Polytheism would do it for us.

I'm happy aim for a CoL, but (and I could be wrong here) isn't the UB unlocked with an earlier tech than CoL ? Priesthood or something ? I don't have access to the game yet, but I seem to recall it being discussed in another thread. Just looked up in the warlords civipedia, and it's CoL, so I'm probably thinking about someone else.

THat marble will come in handy for the Oracle . . .

It's a damn long walk though....


I'm not sure I understand why it's good for us that the English have larger shields....

I agree it's a bit light on resources around here, but I don't know the map type. There's a spot north-east of the southern sheep that looks like there may be a little grassland there to cottage.

 

[negyvenketto]

well, actually it was full, but i would take you in, if you like ~

Yes, it would be nice.
Techs after BW? What about Masonry (for quarry), Priest, AH?
For build order I would go with Warrior (started, need to protect worker), worker, warrior, settler.

 

[pholkhero]

Playing an sg with pholkhero is so much fun that you hardly notice that you've lost .

i guess i would try to argue that if wasn't so . . . what's the word . . . true! I can't seem to remember an SG i've won lately, but hopefully PH08 will be one, and this'll be 2!

I'm not sure I understand why it's good for us that the English have larger shields....

oh, i meant wicked in the bad way, not the slang, wicked=super cool ~ won't be too nice to see cover promoted axes or swords heading our way . . .

that marble could even be used for a tiny clam village there. I'm hoping it'll be pretty isolated up that way for us.

and i think the UB you're thinking of is one of the new civs ~ babylon maybe, or sumer ~ whichever one has the courthouse UB

Techs after BW? What about Masonry (for quarry), Priest, AH?
For build order I would go with Warrior (started, need to protect worker), worker, warrior, settler.

i updated the roster for ya, negy ~ welcome to another Pholk loss ~ er, i mean game! i think if there's no copper nearby, archery should be next or *maybe* AH to check for horsies. if we get copper, then i'm think we could go with either a worker tech of some sort while we wait for a new city to be founded, and then start to think about the Oracle sling so then maybe masonry > priest.

however, i'm sure fox will chime in, and not agree with me, and i'll be outvoted so we'll do it some other way . . . hey, wait a minute, maybe THAT'S why i keep losing ~ no one listens to me

 

[pigswill]

I'm not sure we need masonry for Oracle. Its myst-med-PH (edit we've got mysticism and poly already of course so its just PH). For CoL we need to add writing. If we're going for CoL slingshot then we need to focus on that.
It gets a lot tricker if we don't have copper nearby. We then have to decide between going for AH with no guarantee of horses or archery. While we're mucking around deciding on military techs and city locations etc we're falling behind on the Oracle race. I really don't think we're going to get marble hooked up in time for it to matter for Oracle, maybe Glib later on.

So let's hope for copper in a congenial situation. Warrior, worker, warrior or workboat, settler.

Simon_c: its Gilgamesh the Sumerian who gets ziggurat (courthouse) with priesthood.

 

[pholkhero]

well, if no copper, let's do Archery > Priesthood. This way were assured of a solid defense for the now, and we also don't let the Oracle fall by the wayside. Once those two are out of the way, and we have another city set up, we can worry about getting more military/worker techs.

also, if we're not heading for masonry (or any other worker techs), perhaps we should slot in a WB instead of the worker. Then, build another warrior and whip a settler ASAP. so, warrior > workboat > warrior > settler ??

 

[pigswill]

Played 11 turns taking us to the discovery of BW.

Capital has grown to pop 3, we have another warrior.

First warrior went walkabout:

Spoiler :

He survived the bear but the lion got him in the end

The Scout met our old friend Napoleon who can be relied on never to be relied on. He then headed northwest, called in on a couple of villages collecting 38 gold and Agriculture en route. He's having an easier time and is now 2 Gorillas.

But what about the copper?

Spoiler :

Switched tech to priesthood but on reflection we don't need it that soon. I'm thinking that we build/whip a worker, build/whip/chop a settler and use second city to build Oracle.

 

[GreyFox]

Oracle? Is it influenced by the marble? I don't know, but we should really take the marble out of our consideration unless coast line enables connection of resources (which I vaguely think it does if we have sailing). Roading is close to impossible.

The second city site I presumed would be the desert tile in between the copper, silk and sheep.

I presume you are playing some more as the save isn't there ....

--

 

[Simon_c]

Switched tech to priesthood but on reflection we don't need it that soon. I'm thinking that we build/whip a worker, build/whip/chop a settler and use second city to build Oracle.

Sounds good to me. Getting that copper hooked up, will be good, mixing the odd axe in with the jaguars when we get them makes sense, and it will give us some good defense until we get there. Not sure exactly where the best place is. That area was looking like somewhere to make a commerce city, but a bit or production for it can't hurt.

Speaking of jaguars, we haven't had a discussion on the medium term goals. I'm assuming we want to take out a couple of nearby civs with jaguars. Getting a city near coper will provide a good staging post to England, however I'm not sure we'll be able to take out good old Winston before cats. With his protective archers and cities undoubtedly on hills he's going to be a tough nut to crack. Maybe nappy will be a better first target.

i think if there's no copper nearby, archery should be next or *maybe* AH to check for horsies.

Even if we didn't have any copper closes, I don't think finding horsies would have helped. They don't go too fast arount this kind of map until everything's roaded up.

I do like the idea of getting a workboat instead of a worker. There's nothing much for the worker to do (other than chopping a tree or two), but we probably shouldn't do that, as that's about all the production tenocwhaterver (I hate those unpronounceable names!!) has got until we get round the far side of the lake.

So, I'd say it's better to have a new city for a few turns until a worker can get built than have a worker hanging around waiting for the city to be built. So we can build a workboat now to get more food from the fish and you never know, we may be able to steal some workers by the time we need them instead.

oh, i meant wicked in the bad way, not the slang, wicked=super cool ~ won't be too nice to see cover promoted axes or swords heading our way . . .

Ahh. Well, in that case we'll just have to take out any AI english forces with axes and jags before they get to our cities.

So, on onto my game situation.
Good news, postie has gone back to work, and I've got my BtS and installed it.

But the bad news, I can't get the saved game posted to load . The error message is "cannot load version 301, expected version 300 or lower"
I've tried patching my bts to 3.03, but that's not made any difference . Anyone any clues ??

 

[GreyFox]

SImon: welcome, and we are we playing 3.13 (I think) ... so you have to patch to 3.13.

 

[Simon_c]

Oracle? Is it influenced by the marble? I don't know, but we should really take the marble out of our consideration unless coast line enables connection of resources
--

I think we'd have to hook the marble up to a river, or a city on the coast to to connect it to our capital.
Anyway, it's about a 17 turn walk to get a worker round there (there's a mountain blocking the shortest route) I don't think we'll have a worker/warier spare for 40odd turns for a while yet. Maybe if we put a city somewhere up in the north we could do it, or nick a whole bunch of workers.

 

[Simon_c]

SImon: welcome, and we are we playing 3.13 (I think) ... so you have to patch to 3.13.

Ahhh.
I was only looking on the civfanatics site. I didn't check the in game update...

EDIT:
WooHooo. It loads.

I've had a quick look at the save.. Why have we put hammers into a monument in the capitol ?. I can't see it needing it for culture. And, speaking of culture, can we fit Stone Henge into the build queue and still get the oracle ?

 

[pigswill]

Simon-c: its also worthwhile loading Bhruic's unofficial patch (available in BtS sub-forum as you're probably aware) to correct a few annoying bugs in 3.13.

Team: what about something like: build WB while growing to pop 4, build settler and whip 2 pop towards settler, with 2 clam tiles Techno should regrow fairly fast (or it could start on a worker then whip 1 pop towards it).
Techwise what about going for masonry/mono. We're going to need wheel to hook up the copper but not until we've got a worker.

 

[pholkhero]

The Scout met our old friend Napoleon who can be relied on never to be relied on.

wait, he can be relied to NOT be relied on?!? head . . . exploding . . . ARE you still playing, or, rather, waiting for input??

Oracle? Is it influenced by the marble? I don't know, but we should really take the marble out of our consideration unless coast line enables connection of resources (which I vaguely think it does if we have sailing).

boy, you REALLY need to read some rules a little more closely there Fox ~

Speaking of jaguars, we haven't had a discussion on the medium term goals. I'm assuming we want to take out a couple of nearby civs with jaguars.

med-term goals, once we get some cities hooked up, and hopefully the Oracle done, should be WAR! :ak47: i agree on Churchie's PRO archers will be a pain w/o oracle, so maybe Napoleon first, while we wait on Construction for England. I don't know that anyone else will be close enough for a quick Jag rush ~

Why have we put hammers into a monument in the capitol ?. I can't see it needing it for culture.

i stuck a few hammers into the monument waiting for fishing to pop my first set; it could be deleted, really. also, re: Stonehenge ~ i'm TOO sure when wonders pop on Monarch in BtS (never DID pay much attention to that sort of thing as I don't build too many wonders ~ which might be why i lose, hmmm . . . .) anyway, personally, i wouldn't take the chance, but wait and see what others say. also, we will have religion to pop borders, too.

Team: what about something like: build WB while growing to pop 4, build settler and whip 2 pop towards settler, with 2 clam tiles Techno should regrow fairly fast (or it could start on a worker then whip 1 pop towards it).
Techwise what about going for masonry/mono. We're going to need wheel to hook up the copper but not until we've got a worker.

i like the whipping Settler ASAP idea, and settling that desert spot Fox spoke of to get those 3 resources. however, Mono? strictly for a religion, Org Religion, i'm confused?? If it's for writing, i think i'd rather go the wheel > pottery route since we'll need both roads since our can't move unless it's on them (no wait, wrong game) AND the cottages to fuel expansion.

 

[pigswill]

After all this debate I ended up doing things slightly different.
T41 research archery instead of priesthood. Switch production from worker to workboat.
T49 Archery>Wheel. Revolt to Slavery. Whip WB (40 overflow).
T50 WB>Archer.
T51 Archer>Archer.
T55 Nap revolts to slavery.

Teno grows to pop 4 in 5 turns. 2 turns from wheel.

Scout found wheat to north east (and a lot of tundra, this feels more like a boreal map).

 

[pholkhero]

looking good ~ at Pop4, we should swap to the settler in anticipation of the whip.

After Wheel, what do we think? Pottery or head right for Priesthood? My vote, i think, is on priesthood so we don't lose out. Hopefully, we'll be able to get the settler and maybe one more archer out before the oracle is ready to go. WE should let it grow unimpeded, too, for the whip, too.

also, i made up a dotmap ~ well, a sign map, but . . .

As you can see, besides the copper city, we ain't got too much. Those 2 cowtowns in the south can be used for slow-growing production towns; they have enough grasslands on fresh water AND grass hills to compensate.

also, that clam village should probably be the last one we settle, for when our maintenance costs start to catch up with us from these other, farther-out cities. That Northern City grabs sheep and wheat, and our Far-Reach City is, well, a reach, and i'm not too sure we should settle it.

I didn't sign these cities in-game b/c i didn't want to post another save and cause confusion, but we'll have it here for discussion purposes. i think we all agree on that desert tile for the copper, though, right?

Roster
pholkhero
pigswill >> just played
GreyFox >> UP NOW for 20 turns
beserks01 >> on deck for 15
Crotazzo
Simon_c
Negyvenketto

 

[pigswill]

Desert tile for copper city looks good, will need some culture soonish to capture the copper but its got enough trees to chop for monument and Oracle.

We should pick up one of the cowtowns though Ch'ill will get the other one (or maybe even both). Nap will probably get far reach. Medium term I think we try to befriend Ch'ill and stomp on Nap.

Awaiting a few kind words from Greyfox before he starts his set.

 

[Simon_c]

Er, does anyone else get a crash if they click on the logging icon in the top left ?

 

[pholkhero]

the logging icon as in the normal one that tracks events, combat, etc?? if so, then no. that can't can't be good ~

i'm hoping that Winston expands in another direction, but i agree on nappy first. the maintenance costs are going to kill us, i think, though.

 

[Kodii]

lurker's comment:

Er, does anyone else get a crash if they click on the logging icon in the top left ?

I have encountered a similar problem while playing an SG. It has something to do with the transfer of information from one player using a mod to another player who is not. The problem gets quite annoying as you cannot refer to the log when you missed an announcement

 

[GreyFox]

Got it (it's been quite a while since the last time I was UP simultaneously in 4 SGs).

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