Public opinion and AI behavior

[vesp3r1987]

Ok so here is the thing... I played hundreds of games and every time i start as polite ruler (just as all AI civs) and at some point the other civs start asking me if i want to support their war against someone else. In the cases i do support them and actively attack the common foe untill i get the city i later get denounced by my "ally" and they appear guarded and everyone stop trading fairly with me which is annoying.
On other hand if I avoid any conflicts they all bully me by saying i have a joke army and later declare war on me.

Another thing I need help on is spying... every time i catch a spy and tell the ruller to stop spying me he/she sais "Ok, we wont stick our noses in your stuff" and few moves later I still catch their spys stealing my techs. (Its annoying as I usually run almost full era ahead of them)

So what can I do about those things

I want to keep an ally late game when I get really aggressive taking citys by force and demanding citys in return for peace.

 

[consentient]

Don't agree to go to war unless you want to win by Domination and you are actually going to fight in that war and reap the rewards.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Don't agree to go to war unless you want to win by Domination and you are actually going to fight in that war and reap the rewards.

Not necessarily. I can think of occasions where I joined on a war on paper, never moved a single unit or fired a single shot, but ended up with the "we fought together against a common foe" diplo modifier

 

[vesp3r1987]

I dont know... its just rather strange with the common wars.
BTW I forgot to mention... I stopped adding Win rules. What I do is to play until I own basically everything (world religion, world ideology, world congress host and ofc until my opponents cant do anything against me)... also when I halve the AI civilizations I start supporting the one in worst shape to keep it interesting.

Anyways... its just strange that your allies denounce you for something you both did

 

[Convict]

If you want a really difficult modifier, tell an AI that your troops are merely passing through and then declare war on them. The negative modifier lasts the game and it doesn't matter that they crossed the globe to settle right under your nose. The diplo hit is with Civ's you haven't even met.

As for the requests to go to war, I ignore those unless they really suit me. It is often against a neighbour and the requesting Civ is not even close to them so you would be the one taking the brunt of the action.

 

[claudiupb]

Does the troops merely passing though expire anytime? Like the, I will not settle your lands?

I had one AI pop that question and I answered I was merely passing through (it was the truth actually). Later I DoWed that AI, and was labeled forever as a traitor that promised to move his military but did not deliver that promise.

 

[Convict]

claudiupb, that I don't know. I try and live a peaceful existence and rarely declare war. However, this case was so blatant I didn't think I had much choice. Unfortunately it was very early in the game and it was difficult to get the AI to even trade with me.

It was Polynesia who settled on an island that I had to myself before they decided they wanted it.

 

[Callonia]

There is a huge merit in dowing immediately when the AI is asking if you're just passing through. Then proceed to pass on through while defeating any armies blocking your path.

I never get to worry about that malus because of my philosophy.

If you're lucky, you will get a We have fought a war before and we don't mind it grey modifier. Or if the AI is petty, he will hold it over you as a grudge forever because he didn't get to nab you with a bad modifier when he wanted to.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Does the troops merely passing though expire anytime? Like the, I will not settle your lands?

I had one AI pop that question and I answered I was merely passing through (it was the truth actually). Later I DoWed that AI, and was labeled forever as a traitor that promised to move his military but did not deliver that promise.

50 turns iirc

 

[Mahasona]

the other civs start asking me if i want to support their war against someone else. In the cases i do support them and actively attack the common foe untill i get the city i later get denounced by my "ally" and they appear guarded and everyone stop trading fairly with me which is annoying.

This all depends on how much conquering you do. If you take lots ot cities you will get a big No No from most other civs as they wll see you almost wiping out someone else. They get worried...

On the other hand, as someone already mentioned, you can virtually do nothing except a little worker stealing, missionary killing or pillaging and everything will be fine.

 

[Mahasona]

Another thing I need help on is spying... every time i catch a spy and tell the ruller to stop spying me he/she sais "Ok, we wont stick our noses in your stuff" and few moves later I still catch their spys stealing my techs.

Yes it's a pain and should have been fixed long ago but it hasn't.

 

[pGalu]

Because of this, it seems to be better to just forgive them for the small positive diplomatic modifier -- and perhaps use a defensive spy.

 

[vesp3r1987]

I will try that on my next game... Now im trying to go more hardcore than my usual easy level

 

[beetle]

Does the troops merely passing though expire anytime? Like the, I will not settle your lands?

Yes, but there is no pop-up message notification when it has expired. It is at least 50 turns. Also, if all the units move enough, the demand is satisfied -- but that is very hard to track. I only know the latter condition because I had the demand a second time (from the same civ, much less than 50 turns later, different part of the map). I thought I was still under the peace pledge, so I was more than happy to DoW upon the second challenge!

 

[Callonia]

I recently got hit with this question just now by Russia. What did I do? I was only in the area capturing barbarian ships of all kinds to press them into my navy.

So I declared war on Russia and took Magadean. Russia regretted it and asked for peace so I took it and then sold the city of Magadean back to russia for Silks luxury + 12GPT for 30 turns.

And all i lost was a barbarian galley + galleass.

So I get to make like 360 gold + boosted happiness after 30 turns end. Not so bad for an unintended war. I refuse to be tied down for 50 turns so AI can manipulate me to their advantage like spamming citadels onto my borders.

 

[vesp3r1987]

If they were GUARDED toward you and you have any army (even 1 unit) close to their border they will ask...
Its funny though as on my last game (still not finished) i had 5 or 6 units at their border ready to take over one of their cities and for 5 turns they never asked me if im preparing for war. But when i attacked them i noticed alot of units piled there. So i guess if they dont have the military power to defend all their cities they will pop the question... otherwise they will just ignore you (might be wrong)
Anyways as for the original topic: I guess im still noob. I only recently realized civilizations come with certain behavior that would match the historical behavior of the ruler and they all have some actions that can be predicted (silly me). Well im now more careful on on the other aspects of the game rather than just rushing my tech and trying to dominate everyone by force... which i struggle to do w/o support from a DoW friend and the bribes i now do. Also im placing now spys in my towns 1st instead of popping them in CS for infuence

 

[beetle]

I only recently realized civilizations come with certain behavior that would match the historical behavior of the ruler and they all have some actions that can be predicted (silly me).

I am not sure how historical any of it is, and predictions are more like informed hunches. If you expect every AI to be treacherous all the time -- you will be correct most of the time. If have not seen it before, check out:
http://civdata.com/

 

[Socratatus]

Anyways as for the original topic: I guess im still noob. I only recently realized civilizations come with certain behavior that would match the historical behavior of the ruler and they all have some actions that can be predicted (silly me). Well im now more careful on on the other aspects of the game rather than just rushing my tech and trying to dominate everyone by force... which i struggle to do w/o support from a DoW friend and the bribes i now do. Also im placing now spys in my towns 1st instead of popping them in CS for infuence

This is why I play with random personalities. I feel it`s an unfair advantage to the Player knowing how a Civ is going to act every time I start a new game.

I also don`t play to win rules, i just play until I win.

As for how the AI acts it`s pretty simple:
If you`re strong and nice, he`ll try to drag you into his wars. If you`re weak and nice, he`ll ultimately bully you and attack you. basically, there`s no `be nice and no one will bother you`. Although I did have a game where I manged to get by without war for a very long time- Still ended up being atacked for no reason other than I was weaker than him.

 

[beetle]

This is why I play with random personalities. I feel it`s an unfair advantage to the Player knowing how a Civ is going to act every time I start a new game.

1. Having the numbers does not tell you how a Civ is going to act. Most values are in middle of a narrow range, and they vary each game by (a relatively large) +/- 2.
2. You are depriving yourself out of what little personality the AIs have to offer. In any one game with random personalities, you will pickup on just a few extreme attributes of one or two AI. As you can see from civdata.com, it is a complex system and the AI personalities really only come through after many, many games. Not that it works really well, but random personalities trashes this whole aspect of the game. Random personalities is similar to disabling CS or spying or victory conditions -- you are making the game less.
3. The flavor bias have been tuned to a fair extent to provide synergy to the AI UA. This is most apparent if you look at the AIs which have a UA that effects CS relations. It is an unfair advantage to the player to sabotage these AIs by using random personalities.

 

[vesp3r1987]

OK so this time around i got my game alot better. However i had to make somewhat "permanent" alliance with one of the civs i dislike most - The romans... well it payed off though. What started as an alliance for bullying China finished with him accepting my ideology and i accepting his faith as i couldnt found my own in time. This + common hatred against China and some proposals on WC led in a strong alliance (for now) in which they dont seem bothered of me taking 3 cities in 1 war. However everyone else started to be guarded towards me.
The thing is he is now in war with one of my formal bully buddies which still appears friendly to me although he several times popped up with "because of you our proposal failed". Question is if i join the roman in their war (that guy is my next target anyways as we share border) or should i wit for him to denounce me 1st so Caesar dont turn on me right away (i share border with him too and we both have huge army).
Although im not frightened to do war on 2 fronts because im already mid atomic era with few nukes stationed in cities and the rest are just entering information and modern era i dont want to loose Caesar forces as they are a good meatshield.
What should i do