[LP] Qin the Unifier: Convert Barbarians: Minimum criteria

[Goodenuf]

Would be interested to know how people are leveraging Qin the Unifier's ability to convert barbarians by sacrificing a Melee unit. At what point do you do it, and when do you not?

Clearly if you can gain an equivalent melee unit plus at least one other unit, that's an obvious "do".

But what if you're melee unit is next to:

• Spearman and scout?
• Two scouts?
• Slinger and Spearman?

This makes the decision a bit more challenging.

What's your minimum requirement to "do"?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Usually, I won't convert unless there's a barb warrior to be gained, plus at least one other unit, preferably not a Scout. However, in some circumstances, I still will. Like if my warrior is about to die. Grabbing some naval units is also a good reason, early on. Less so, later.

 

[tedhebert]

Also, you have to take into account how many promotions your melee unit already has... If you already have a 2 promotion warrior, will you sacrifice it for a 0 exp warrior and a 0 xp spearman ?

 

[tedhebert]

And honestly, I've only played 1 game with him (not even finished but in late game stage) but I think I've had a melee barb available only once... That on 5 or 6 camps... they were all barb horsemen, spearmen, barb horse archer and slingers/archer...

Still it's fun ;-)

 

[UWHabs]

I've made some attempts with him. My biggest problem is that the AI city-states are too good trying to attack the camps. The latest attempts had me cut down the default number of city-states on the map, and then I was a little more likely to have a city-state I could farm for units. If you let their scout get to you, you can have them come at you with like 3+ warriors and slingers, making it really easy to convert. My last game was perfect, except that it was like a 15 turns trek through the jungle to America who was my closest neighbour. I even had my local barb camp very quickly skip to generating Man At Arms. By the time I had more than a couple of them ready to go, it was too late for an early rush.

I think you do really want Babylon on the map. Because I had another test game earlier where one of the local camps switched to building Crossbowmen. It was the only game I've had where I got the Eureka for having 2 Crossbowmen before getting the Eureka for getting 3 archers. It's 100% worth it to trade a warrior for a Crossbowman.

The other case that's worth it is if you levy a CS, and use their warriors to create your army. But I think that's definitely starting to go down the path of exploit territory.

 

[blackbutterfly]

But what if you're melee unit is next to:

• Spearman and scout?

Nope.

• Two scouts?
• Slinger and Spearman?

Double nope.

You want to exploit Qin's ability by making sure EVERY conversion includes AT LEAST one melee barb.
That's how you snowball

And it is pretty easy to do even on Zombies mode, by following this one simple rule.
In fact Unifier Qin loves barb swarms, so it is doubly exploitable with zombies.

 

[AntSou]

I can think of a million scenarios in which I would gladly trade a melee for two non-melee units.

Ok, maybe not a million, but like a handful.

 

[UWHabs]

I can think of a million scenarios in which I would gladly trade a melee for two non-melee units.

Ok, maybe not a million, but like a handful.

Yeah, I wouldn't say "never". But if it's my only Melee class unit by the camp, I'm definitely going to be a little more protective. If you've got a swarm of warriors at the ready, then I'll easily steal 2 slingers for the warrior. Heck, I've traded 1:1 just swapping my warrior for theirs, if their guy has more health, or I want to be on the camp to pillage it, or something else.

 

[blackbutterfly]

I can think of a million scenarios in which I would gladly trade a melee for two non-melee units.
Ok, maybe not a million, but like a handful.

Maybe this is why you're not getting why Qin Unifier is exploitable

You gotta follow the rule convert AT LEAST ONE other melee barb.
Especially at the start.

I started another snowflake Clans + Zombies marathon (deity) as Qin and already dominating (see military and gold):

 

[Miserable Old Git]

Simple rules: don't do it unless it leverages your power, never leave yourself without a melee unit in the area, and wait for the barb to starting spawning.

The screenshot below shows how powerful it can be. I approached the barb camp with a solitary warrior and a spearman (taken from an earlier conversion; I never build spearmen myself). I finished with the spearman, an archer, and three men-at-arms.