Senethro
Overlord
Whats the situation regarding Britain actually having planes capable of taking off from these things?
Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier
- Thread starter imperialman
- Start date
imperialman
Admiral
The aircraft, of which the UK already has a handful, will be in the UK before the ships leave sea trials. They will be deployed to them for the first time after they leave sea trials. They'll have been flying from the deck of the Queen Elizabeth by the end of 2018.
Senethro
Overlord
Wikipedia says the things have a potential capacity of 50 aircraft. A handful doesn't sound like a number that needs a carrier to move them about, or indeed contribute very much to an operation.
imperialman
Admiral
They can, in theory, hold 60 F-35B's and helicopters. By 2018, there will be 14 and by 2020 nearly twice that if current orders are maintained.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
That presumably doesn't make allowances for the upper deck. The Americans use their flight deck as parking space, which you have to factor in when they say they can 'operate over a hundred aircraft'. The RN doesn't count that bit, if they did these would probably be able to 'operate' up to 70-80 aircraft using the US standard.
I still think we should have ordered Rafales. Lovely aircraft that.
Link to video.
I still think we should have ordered Rafales. Lovely aircraft that.
Link to video.
imperialman
Admiral
No UK industrial benefit to the Rafale though sadly. Good point too regarding the figures.
imperialman
Admiral
After a period of intense work this last year, the ship has come to life.
HMS Queen Elizabeth comes to life as first engine started
Minister of State for Defence Procurement, Philip Dunne, has officially started the first of the ship’s four diesel generators in Rosyth today bringing the ship to life.
“It is a real pleasure to be back in Scotland, home of the UK’s shipbuilding industry, to witness the impressive progress that is being made on our new aircraft carriers.
Powering up the diesel generator today marks an important milestone on the journey to bring these highly versatile ships into service with our Armed Forces. They will be the largest, most capable and effective surface warships ever constructed in the UK. The build programme is supporting thousands of jobs across the country, with over 4,000 of those jobs at Rosyth and the Clyde.”
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-queen-elizabeth-comes-to-life-as-first-engine-started/
HMS Queen Elizabeth comes to life as first engine started
Minister of State for Defence Procurement, Philip Dunne, has officially started the first of the ship’s four diesel generators in Rosyth today bringing the ship to life.
“It is a real pleasure to be back in Scotland, home of the UK’s shipbuilding industry, to witness the impressive progress that is being made on our new aircraft carriers.
Powering up the diesel generator today marks an important milestone on the journey to bring these highly versatile ships into service with our Armed Forces. They will be the largest, most capable and effective surface warships ever constructed in the UK. The build programme is supporting thousands of jobs across the country, with over 4,000 of those jobs at Rosyth and the Clyde.”
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-queen-elizabeth-comes-to-life-as-first-engine-started/
CavLancer
This aint fertilizer
Very impressive. :b: Any ideas where each will be stationed?
imperialman
Admiral
HMS Queen Elizabeth outfitting while HMS Prince of Wales is assembled in Scotland
imperialman
Admiral
Both will be stationed in Portsmouth naval base.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
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- 15,090
That depends: how long until they realize that the F-35 is a procurement disaster for the UK?
It's a procurement disaster for the US as well. But we're also committed. There just aren't other options. Not unless everyone is willing to throw away a decade or more of development to find a replacement.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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- Nov 29, 2006
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- 22,210
Yep. The boat floats.
Good job Britain.
_______________________________________________
In all seriousness, has the F-35 even begun carrier trials yet?
Also, interesting article on why the F-35 was doomed from the start:
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd...th-the-worlds-worst-new-warplane-5c95d45f86a5
tl;dr: The necessity of including the lift fan for VTOL warped all of the other design requirements. The lift fan's location prevented wasp-waisting (increasing drag), the stealth elements necessitated storing the weapons in internal bomb bays -making the fuselage even wider- and reducing capacity.
So we have an air-superiority fighter that is less agile and slower than a 1980s vintage F-16 (to say nothing of the Typhoon or Rafale) and less powerful than ground attack aircraft (such as the Tornado).
Good job Britain.
_______________________________________________
In all seriousness, has the F-35 even begun carrier trials yet?
Also, interesting article on why the F-35 was doomed from the start:
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/fd...th-the-worlds-worst-new-warplane-5c95d45f86a5
tl;dr: The necessity of including the lift fan for VTOL warped all of the other design requirements. The lift fan's location prevented wasp-waisting (increasing drag), the stealth elements necessitated storing the weapons in internal bomb bays -making the fuselage even wider- and reducing capacity.
So we have an air-superiority fighter that is less agile and slower than a 1980s vintage F-16 (to say nothing of the Typhoon or Rafale) and less powerful than ground attack aircraft (such as the Tornado).
B-but muh multirole!
You want multirole, go find some Hornets; if it's good enough for the USN and their dozen big-deck carriers it's good enough for the Royal Navy.
Yes, I'm still bitter about losing the F-14s and A-6s...
imperialman
Admiral
I'm afraid colleagues in the forces and industry would disagree with that assessment, opinions are very optimistic over the capabilities it'll bring to the UK's carrier force. Even putting aside perceived military benefits, the economic boost to the UK from participation is quite substantial. A friend who hasn't long retired, formerly part of the ETPS, is the only I know with first hand experience however and he's really quite happy about the jet, the only reservation he has is that the UK may not order enough of them to be truly effective.
Aren't the US Navy planning an all F-35 fleet? The F-18 was considered, for quite some time, but dismissed due to not meeting quite a few requirements the UK deemed essential it seems, as to what those requirements were...
The Hornet is an all-American design and production. That probably is all it takes to disqualify it.
More seriously, if it's good enough for the USN, it's good enough for any other navy.
imperialman
Admiral
The Hornet is an all-American design and production. That probably is all it takes to disqualify it.
The UK purchase has to last a lot longer than the US, it doesn't have the money to purchase Hornet now and F35 a few decades later. So it was one or the other.
As far as I know (which isn't far, I don't follow these things as closely as others here) yes the USN is going all F-35. But hey, at least we're getting proper catapult-launched ones instead of those horrific VTOL types.
/sarcasmtag
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