Question of the Week: Espionage!

[Afforess]

Which new espionage missions and/or espionage tweaks would you like see added to the game? Any results getting over 50% of the vote will be included.

• Incite Revolt
  Increases Chance of City Revolt. Only Available with Revolutions.
• Coup d'état
  Causes Victim player 4 turns of empire-wide anarchy
• Plant Nuclear Device
  Causes a Nuclear Bomb to detonate in the city. If caught, the victim nation may declare war on you.
• Overthrow City Government
  You immediately receive the city, get several free defenders, the owner may declare war on you.
• Terrorist Attack
  Victim receives one turn of empire-wide anarchy, temporary unhappiness in all cities. If caught, may trigger war.
• Bribe Official
  Grants access to a user-specified resource in the city vicinity for 20 turns.
• Plant Spy
  Consumes the spy, gives full sight to the city, after time, the chance of the operative being caught increases. Eventually, the spy will be caught.
• Force espionage mission effects to scale for gamespeed.
  Currently, poisoning water, fermenting unhappiness, etc... doesn't scale for gamespeed. It causes missions to be less useful on slower speeds.

Feel free to offer your own suggestions as well. Comments and criticism is also welcome.

 

[os79]

Disregard the other thread's comment .

 

[Killtech]

Overthrow City Government seems a far too overpowered to me... maybe it could work if it is only possible under special conditions! maybe a very high revolution-index and/or a very high unhappiness or/and a minimum or your own culture (so you need at least several missions before you can think of overthrowing a city government). and even then can you ensure the AI will be able to use it effectively or will this end up as player-only feature?

as for the rest, they look very cool (especially bribe official and plant spy) and even though they might weaken AI most seem balanced enough for the game.

one point: could you consider changing plant spy somehow that the spy can be withdrawn from the city after a time and gains some xp from it? because it's very annoying to sent my spies each turn in cities of my vassals and poison their water (since this doesn't harm my allies a bit) for just for training? planting spies seems just like a much better training mission for spies... and a less nasty one since they stay a bit longer at the city.

 

[gramcrkr103]

Can I say, "All of the above"?

 

[0100010]

Overthrow city government should have a high rev index already and a high value of your own culture already in the city. It might cause a war if caught. Otherwise, though the city should revolt and have its forces split off as a new minor civ, but this civ is at peace with you and have diplomatic contacts. The goal now is to have the rebels win the city in those 10 war turns, (perhaps there is an option to give them funds or forces)

If the rebels don't win the city in 10 turns the overthrow failed, if they do, the goal is now to negotiate peace between the rebel civ and the its former parent civ. (or just declare war with the parent civ) Then the rebel civ will voluntarily give up their Independence in order to join your empire.

 

[konradcabral]

• Incite Revolt
  Increases Chance of City Revolt. Only Available with Revolutions.
  Yes. Only by agents and later units.
  
  
• Coup d'état
  Causes Victim player 4 turns of empire-wide anarchy
  Only if it is available in cities that have high rev points.
  
  
• Plant Nuclear Device
  Causes a Nuclear Bomb to detonate in the city. If caught, the victim nation may declare war on you.
  Yes, only by 007.
  
  
• Overthrow City Government
  You immediately receive the city, get several free defenders, the owner may declare war on you.
  Yes, if you have a certain % of city's culture.
  
  
• Terrorist Attack
  Victim receives one turn of empire-wide anarchy, temporary unhappiness in all cities. If caught, may trigger war.
  Don't know, I'm in doubt here. I think terrorism is a subject that needs more thinking.
  
  
• Bribe Official
  Grants access to a user-specified resource in the city vicinity for 20 turns.
  Yes, but 20 turns I think a little too much.
  
  
• Plant Spy
  Consumes the spy, gives full sight to the city, after time, the chance of the operative being caught increases. Eventually, the spy will be caught.
  Yup.
  
  
• Force espionage mission effects to scale for gamespeed.
  Currently, poisoning water, fermenting unhappiness, etc... doesn't scale for gamespeed. It causes missions to be less useful on slower speeds.
  Obviously yes.

 

[NBAfan]

• Incite Revolt
  Increases Chance of City Revolt. Only Available with Revolutions.
  Yes. Only by agents and later units.
  
  
• Coup d'état
  Causes Victim player 4 turns of empire-wide anarchy
  Only if it is available in cities that have high rev points.
  
  
• Plant Nuclear Device
  Causes a Nuclear Bomb to detonate in the city. If caught, the victim nation may declare war on you.
  Yes, only by 007.
  
  
• Overthrow City Government
  You immediately receive the city, get several free defenders, the owner may declare war on you.
  Yes, if you have a certain % of city's culture.
  
  
  
• Bribe Official
  Grants access to a user-specified resource in the city vicinity for 20 turns.
  Yes, but 20 turns I think a little too much.
  
  
• Plant Spy
  Consumes the spy, gives full sight to the city, after time, the chance of the operative being caught increases. Eventually, the spy will be caught.
  Yup.
  
  
• Force espionage mission effects to scale for gamespeed.
  Currently, poisoning water, fermenting unhappiness, etc... doesn't scale for gamespeed. It causes missions to be less useful on slower speeds.
  Obviously yes.

I agree.

 

[Afforess]

• Incite Revolt
  Increases Chance of City Revolt. Only Available with Revolutions.
  Yes. Only by agents and later units.
  
  
• Coup d'état
  Causes Victim player 4 turns of empire-wide anarchy
  Only if it is available in cities that have high rev points.
  
  
• Plant Nuclear Device
  Causes a Nuclear Bomb to detonate in the city. If caught, the victim nation may declare war on you.
  Yes, only by 007.
  
  
• Overthrow City Government
  You immediately receive the city, get several free defenders, the owner may declare war on you.
  Yes, if you have a certain % of city's culture.
  
  
• Terrorist Attack
  Victim receives one turn of empire-wide anarchy, temporary unhappiness in all cities. If caught, may trigger war.
  Don't know, I'm in doubt here. I think terrorism is a subject that needs more thinking.
  
  
• Bribe Official
  Grants access to a user-specified resource in the city vicinity for 20 turns.
  Yes, but 20 turns I think a little too much.
  
  
• Plant Spy
  Consumes the spy, gives full sight to the city, after time, the chance of the operative being caught increases. Eventually, the spy will be caught.
  Yup.
  
  
• Force espionage mission effects to scale for gamespeed.
  Currently, poisoning water, fermenting unhappiness, etc... doesn't scale for gamespeed. It causes missions to be less useful on slower speeds.
  Obviously yes.

I'm not going to differentiate between units that can and can not perform the missions. All the spies will be able to. However, don't expect many of the really powerful missions to be cheap. The nuclear device will consume nearly all of a GS's points up. Having a more advanced spy (Agent, 007) will make it inherently easier to conduct the missions, since they start with free promotions. The game is already slanted in their favor, no need to make it even more extreme.

 

[kaltruhe]

Plant Nuclear Device! wow, 24 becomes a real situation in Civ!

it's really good job, Afforess

+ maybe these new espionage missions would depend on civics, e.g. fundamentalism increases probability of missions against heathen civ.

 

[Afforess]

Plant Nuclear Device! wow, 24 becomes a real situation in Civ!

Hehe, that's espionage mission is already 95% coded. I just turned it off for right now.

+ maybe these new espionage missions would depend on civics, e.g. fundamentalism increases probability of missions against heathen civ.

Good idea! I think more totalitarian civics would be better at espionage, because they don't have to own up to an informed public.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I have some ideas ...

Cyber Hack
Cyber Hack has diffrent flavors depending upon the mission. The spy can choose to do a random hack which lowers the science, production, culture or wealth the city they are cyber hacking. Or if their spy gets better at it they can pick which which they want to hack. In addition they could get more effective at it as they preform more mission such as decreasing the % of that city.

Here some ideas for promotions ...

Hacker I - +10% Cyber Hack Success
Hacker II (Req Hacker I) - +20% Cyber Hack Success
Hacker III (Req Hacker II) - +30% Cyber Hack Success

White Hat Hacker (Req Hacker III) - +50% vs Cyber Hack
Black Hat Hacker (Req Hacker III) - Can choose Science, Production, Culture or Wealth when cyber hacking.

Other hacking ideas would be ...

Power Grid Hack - Can turn off the power to a city for x number of turns.

eBank Hack - Can get x gold per turn from a rival civ for x number of turns.

What do you think?

 

[Arakhor]

I'm good with all of those, except with Terrorist attack. I think that should be a random event, at most.

 

[Cyrusfan]

I think Terrorist Attack and Coup d'etat are going to be overpowered if there's not some limitation on how often they can be used (in the former case the general freak-out effect should make it harder for other spies, of any civ, to operate in your territory for some period of time, in the latter case it's probably open season on your civ espionage wise). As for the overthrowing city government option, I'd be happy if we could restore the culture flipping from Civ4 (spies already have an influence culture mission that used to do this if you sent them often enough-I generally don't bother with spies anymore because this isn't possible).

 

[Afforess]

They both will have negative diplomatic effects, beyond the spy caught one. Also, don't expect these to be cheap, the good one's may use up most of GS's EP's.

 

[Civ Fuehrer]

The Terrorist Attack sounds pretty good, the Coup d'état and overthrow city government however should be changed slightly.

Overthrow City Government:
Extremely expensive, You receive the city after 2 turns of city revolt, get several free defenders, the owner will declare war on you.

Coup d'état:
Godly expensive, five of the target's cities with the most of your culture or five of the closest cities to your border (if fixed borders is enabled) will become more and more restless with anarchy for five turns, the cities that have not been attempted to put back under control after the five turns will spawn an army (duplicate to the army guarding each city, however each unit will receive a bonus promotion, Surprise Attack, the promo should give a 200% bonus to attack, hide nationality and despawns the unit in 3 turns[you can get that code from FFH])outside each city revolting from the mission. On top of that the targeted civ should receive a new leader to simulate the assassinated leader(or ashamed leader since you can't really stop a leaderhead from showing up).

 

[Sonereal]

Which new espionage missions and/or espionage tweaks would you like see added to the game? Any results getting over 50% of the vote will be included.

• Incite Revolt
  Increases Chance of City Revolt. Only Available with Revolutions.
• Coup d'état
  Causes Victim player 4 turns of empire-wide anarchy
• Plant Nuclear Device
  Causes a Nuclear Bomb to detonate in the city. If caught, the victim nation may declare war on you.
• Overthrow City Government
  You immediately receive the city, get several free defenders, the owner may declare war on you.
• Terrorist Attack
  Victim receives one turn of empire-wide anarchy, temporary unhappiness in all cities. If caught, may trigger war.
• Bribe Official
  Grants access to a user-specified resource in the city vicinity for 20 turns.
• Plant Spy
  Consumes the spy, gives full sight to the city, after time, the chance of the operative being caught increases. Eventually, the spy will be caught.
• Force espionage mission effects to scale for gamespeed.
  Currently, poisoning water, fermenting unhappiness, etc... doesn't scale for gamespeed. It causes missions to be less useful on slower speeds.

Feel free to offer your own suggestions as well. Comments and criticism is also welcome.

1. I like the first one.
2. The Coup should be rather expensive it also give a huge stability penalty.
3. I voted yes for this one but I"m starting to reconsider.
4. Should only work if the city is instable.
5. Again, voted for it but the problem with the terrorist attack idea is that its basically a water-downed Coup. It seems to me that destroying a building in a city would be a terrorist attack on its own.

I completly agree with balancing the missions for gamespeed.

 

[Alorente]

I'm not going to differentiate between units that can and can not perform the missions. All the spies will be able to. However, don't expect many of the really powerful missions to be cheap. The nuclear device will consume nearly all of a GS's points up. Having a more advanced spy (Agent, 007) will make it inherently easier to conduct the missions, since they start with free promotions. The game is already slanted in their favor, no need to make it even more extreme.

I think these changes are positive Afforess. For one, it will force me to use espionage to counter some of the missions. I practically never use espionage as it is. I find the investment better spent in tech, culture or cash. There is no need to use espionage to win the game in Monarch or Emperor if you focus in the other areas. Just like there is no need to get involved in setting up corporations. Too much work micromanaging it for little return. That time and money is better spent in other things. IMHO. With your espionage changes, there is no choice but to use it, which obviously will add strategic complexity to the game. That nuclear option will give you some sweaty palms too. I would also eliminate the requirement for the spy to return to the capital after a successful mission. It gets to be very annoying. Great job once more, Afforess. Did you say you were 18 or 81?

 

[Afforess]

I think these changes are positive Afforess. For one, it will force me to use espionage to counter some of the missions. I practically never use espionage as it is. I find the investment better spent in tech, culture or cash. There is no need to use espionage to win the game in Monarch or Emperor if you focus in the other areas. Just like there is no need to get involved in setting up corporations. Too much work micromanaging it for little return. That time and money is better spent in other things. IMHO. With your espionage changes, there is no choice but to use it, which obviously will add strategic complexity to the game. That nuclear option will give you some sweaty palms too. I would also eliminate the requirement for the spy to return to the capital after a successful mission. It gets to be very annoying.

Glad someone likes them. And I agree with you on the last point about spies getting sent back to the capital. Very annoying when it's across the ocean. I'll probably change it to a 5 turn cool-down time where you can't move the spy.

Did you say you were 18 or 81?

18, lol.

 

[Sonereal]

Shouldn't a nuclear terroist strike ignore the bomb shelter building?

 

[Sinapus]

Is it already possible to frame another civilization for your deeds, and if not, could you add that as an option? I know there's an event or two that has the same effect, I'm asking if you can have a choice to frame X civ for your nefarious deeds, lowering their relations with each other.

I'd recommend it be an option mainly because I suspect that if I do use it I'll find my relations ruined by other civs using it on each other.