Race Issue Lingers Over Health Care Debate, With Possible Political Consequences

[Patroklos]

Jimmy Carter hasn't been involved in the Democratic leadership for decades now. But he still represents Democrats, to an extent, because of his long association with them. This is why Obama, as the current party leader, has had to be assertive in rejecting Carter's interpretation.

Are you saying that Carter, a former President of the United Stats and leader of the Democratic party still very much involved directly with the organization, is the same as Rush Limbagh? You give Rush a lot of undeserved cedit.

They're protesting some bizarre fantasy of what a "socialist" (or a "fascist") would do.

I am trying to figure out what we used call people who were protesting against the slippery slope to (or current manifestation) fascism in the United States from 2000-2008??? What was their name again, Demo... No no no, couldn't be.

The entire Congressional electoral success of the Republican Party through the 80s and 90s can be summed up in five words: Southern whites started voting Republican.

Thats funny, because despite carrying the South through the 70'ss/80's/early 90's they rarely held the majority in Congress. Nope, it was when something else happend in 94 that it changed, and it wasn't the South all of a sudden voting Republican.

 

[Little Raven]

Are you saying that Carter, a former President of the United Stats and leader of the Democratic party still very much involved directly with the organization, is the same as Rush Limbagh?

No. Rush Limbaugh has MUCH greater power in the Republican Party today than Jimmy Carter does in the current Democratic Party. Remember, Michael Steele was forced to do penance to Rush after he dismissed Rush as an 'entertainer.' Tim Kaine would never be made to apologize to Carter.

 

[JollyRoger]

Didnt you know? If you disagree with a black man you're racist....

Black kids beating a white kid isnt.....

White kid with a sword . . . heroic enforcer of justice

Black kid defending his backpack . . . thuggish criminal

Haha, it's all so f-ing hysterical.

Yep

 

[Holycannoli]

The people at tea parties and protesting town halls aren't protesting Obama's policies. They don't seem to know what his policies are. They're protesting some bizarre fantasy of what a "socialist" (or a "fascist") would do. The fact that what they're complaining about doesn't exist puts the lie to the idea that the teabaggers are opposed to his policies.

What Obama is doing and trying to do is socialist and fascist, so how is that some bizarre fantasy? The protesters know what his policies are, that's why they're there, taking time off work to be there. I submit that many people who voted for Obama last November don't know what his policies were, or even who his VP was, and voted for him based on race and race alone.

These "teabaggers", as the left so often like to say, are protesting the socialization of the country, the immense spending, and the lies. People wanted change, but not this change. And it's going to hurt the Democrats in 2010. If they keep up this racist charade it will hurt them even more. The White House knows it, but why don't some Congressmen, Senators and the liberal media know it?

I wonder if you know that about 70% of the population once approved of Obama. Did 25% or so of them turn racist? Or do 25% or so of them disaprove of his policies?

 

[Arwon]

What Obama is doing and trying to do is socialist and fascist, so how is that some bizarre fantasy?

Oh wow self-contained and everything.

 

[aelf]

I was saying cries of racism would be herd, not just by blacks but whites and others also.

Why did I say that? Because that seems to be the case a lot of the time, as with criticizing Obama you may be called a racist by some, even if your not.

Again, I don't like it that your saying I don't like black people.(In other words, calling me racist.)

Whatever you were saying and whatever the reason, you were complaining about black people multiples times within a very short span of time. So, if that means you still love them, then fair enough

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What Obama is doing and trying to do is socialist and fascist, so how is that some bizarre fantasy?

Thanks for brightening up my morning. I appreciate it.

I have done socialism to death, so please ... explain how what Obama is doing is fascist.

 

[Cutlass]

What Obama is doing and trying to do is socialist and fascist, so how is that some bizarre fantasy? The protesters know what his policies are, that's why they're there, taking time off work to be there. I submit that many people who voted for Obama last November don't know what his policies were, or even who his VP was, and voted for him based on race and race alone.

These "teabaggers", as the left so often like to say, are protesting the socialization of the country, the immense spending, and the lies. People wanted change, but not this change. And it's going to hurt the Democrats in 2010. If they keep up this racist charade it will hurt them even more. The White House knows it, but why don't some Congressmen, Senators and the liberal media know it?

I wonder if you know that about 70% of the population once approved of Obama. Did 25% or so of them turn racist? Or do 25% or so of them disaprove of his policies?

If that's what they think they are protesting, then that just goes to show how completely insane and out of touch they are. Since no one sane thinks that Obama is leading towards either socialism or fascism.

 

[Camikaze]

I submit that many people who voted for Obama last November don't know what his policies were, or even who his VP was, and voted for him based on race and race alone.

I submit that many people who voted for McCain last November did so despite knowing who his VP was. And some probably voted for McCain based on race and race alone.

 

[RedRalph]

So you are saying people who would normally be all about Obama's policies aren'te solely because of racism?

The Democrats will abandon this once they see the damage they are doing. There are a lot of people out there, Democrat/Republican/Liberal/Conservative, who are unhappy with things for myraid reasons and right now dozens of members of congress/the blogosphere/hundreds of TV pundits are pretty much calling all of them racisits. Thats NOT how you get support. Thats how you galvinize opposition.

But they aren't disagreeing with anything approximating his policies, they are disagreeing with his plan to kill 80-90% of the WORLD'S population (presumeably all of India and China can look forward to being euthanised in American under hhis plan). Thats how is crazy, and likely racist too. as I said, there is room for legit disagreement with his policies, but these people arent legit, they are insane.

 

[Patroklos]

Now RRW, those people are fun to make fun of and make people talk/blog/rant/watch TV, so thats who is being shown on television. Obama's aproval ratings on things like healthcare are now below 50%, and that 50%+ who disapprove are not just republicans but also modertats/independats/Democrats. Unless you think all those people are racist too then they obviously percieve a legitimate gripe with the President, and if you allow that they can have a legitimate gripe with the president then there is no reason conservatives can't either.

And BTW, people can be against something for reasons other than racism, and then just be wrong in their reasoning. Look at communists for instance

A simple test. Given what you know about my politics, do you think I would have supported these same policies if it were Kucinich up there proposing them instead of Obama? Extrapolate to most of the people the TV is focusing on.

 

[RedRalph]

Now RRW, those people are fun to make fun of and make people talk/blog/rant/watch TV, so thats who is being shown on television. Obama's aproval ratings on things like healthcare are now below 50%, and that 50%+ who disapprove are not just republicans but also modertats/independats/Democrats. Unless you think all those people are racist too then they obviously percieve a legitimate gripe with the President, and if allow that they can have a legitimate gripe with the president then there is no reason conservatives can't either.

And BTW, people can be against something for reasons other than racism, and then just be wrong in their reasoning. Look at communists for instance

A simple test. Given what you know about my politics, do you think I would have supported these same policies if it were Kucinich up there proposing them instead of Obama? Extrapolate to most of the people the TV is focusing on.

Great-nonexistant-god almighty, how many times does one have to repeatoneself. There is plenty of legitimate criticism, of Obama to be made, I make it myself. I am not calling anyone who criticises him racist or crazy. I am calling people who compare him to Hitler, Stalin or even Lenin (he wishes), who claim he is out to turn the US into a communist state (or even a socialist one), who think he is planning genocide on a scale that would make Hitler blush, who cannot stop referring to his skin colour, who wont believe he is American, who believe he is a Muslim, etc etc completely crazy.

 

[Patroklos]

But there is no indication that such people make up anything more than an insignificant sample of the overall opposition to Obama. It is no different than the people who tried to paint all opposition to Bush as nothing more than a bunch of peacenick, tree hugging, communist traitors.

The difference here is that elected officials and he media were never as blatant in their painting as they are now. We have congressmen talking about the KKK riding through cities lynching on a whim, in OFFICIAL PRESS RELEASES.

I am glad you appreciate that legitimate opposition to Obama is possible, but the topic at hand is that according to some very prominent people, the MAJORITY of it is attributable to nothing other than racism. And thats my contribution to the thread, that in the end if they keep doing this they are going to insult a lot of people from all sides who are not racists who are seeing what they believe to be their sincere disagreement with Obama being reduced to a warrantless accusation of racism. I am sure they are also pissed (as I am) that the media insists on associating them with the most loonie eye grabing a-holes they can get a picture of. They are in real danger of galvinizing their opposition, which right now is coming from a lot of corners, into an actualy joing movement against Obama. You should never give your enemies common cause.

 

[Phlegmak]

Most of the racist outcries in relation to opposition to Obama are fantasy. People like Janeane Garofalo and Jimmy Carter need to get over it. The fact that he's a Democrat, on the other hand, is more significant. Some people will oppose Democrats no matter what they do.

Worrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I don't get it.

 

[Rossiya]

An American stalling.

Can we get back to topic here? All these digressions are really annoying both to the OP and me. Thanks.

 

[Patroklos]

How is this not on topic conversations?

 

[Rossiya]

We were talking about race, healthcare and political consequences. All this talk about American speech is nothing but puerile digression tactics from the real issues here.

 

[Patroklos]

I don't think so. You asked about how these racism accusations would affect initiatives (health care), and how much these accusations really change the picture has a lot to do with how accurate that racism accusation is.

Case in point I don't think it is accurate, and the anger over being falsly accused of racism is going to galvanize opposition against initiatives being proposed by those issuing the false claims.

 

[HiI'mWalt]

I don't want brown people to have access to doctors.
The brown people may be grateful to the doctor.
I don't like doctors.

 

[El_Machinae]

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