Ramesses II (Industrious-Deity series)

[DanF5771]

However, the general consensus I have seen is that the NORMAL DEITY BONUS is not allowed to count for PROJECTS, but now it seems at least in the last version of BtS it definitely does count toward projects.

Production costs of team projects (Apollo, SS parts) are also reduced according to difficulty (iAICreatePercent = 60 for deity), so only the costs of world projects (Internet, Manhattan) will solely be modified by the era discount (iAIWorldCreatePercent = 100).

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, well that leaves the last question, what's the case for NATIONAL Wonders.

Anyhow, after more testing, it seems that due to the crazy sporadic nature of the AI taking its time to civic switch back, there most likely has to be some random variables that are thrown in there somewhere. It's just not making sense for me.

Also, even with a large empire, and forcing them to switch FIVE different civics in one shot, the deity AIs only so far got a max of 2 turns anarchy. Grrrrr. This type of tactic just doesn't seem to make much sense for a high level game. Too much AI bonuses.

Also, I even took an AI who had SoD stacks of a hundred units a piece, and put him into pacifism. And they don't even have to pay a single cent! Rediculous... Pacifism is a free civic to them.

 

[DanF5771]

The same rules apply for Wonders (National Wonders =^= Team Projects -> -40% cost for deity AI).

Pacifism is not exactly a free civic for deity AIs but unit costs are indeed laughable for them. I checked Huayna's numbers (left) after switching him to Pacifism in the 1575 AD save of an old Gliese Zara deity game and compared them to what a human had to pay playing at deity in his situation (right).



Huayna has 270 units (242 military) and gets a ~78% discount on his unit costs plus some more free units than the human player...
His modifiers are:

• 50% for playing at Noble
• 60% for being an AI in a deity game
• 75% for deity AI in modern era (-25%)

Those multiply to 0.5*0.6*0.75 ~ 0.22.

But why are you complaining - you haven't lost a single game .

BTW there are a couple of timers dealing with civic switches. The AI will not even think about switching during a period of 10/25 turns after the last voluntary switch (not forced by spies). 10 turns for spiritual AIs (and maybe non-spirituals with Christo or last switch during GA; 2*MIN_REVOLUTION_TURNS); 25 turns for non-spiritual AIs (CIVIC_CHANGE_DELAY, hard coded in CvPlayerAI.cpp).

 

[obsolete]

Oh boy, that is just terrible coding on their part again. So if a human attacks an AI five turns after they did a voluntary switch, they WILL NOT even bother changing into Nationhood or slavery DESPITE THEY ARE SPIRITUAL AND NEED IT NOW!

Just.... absolutely terrible!

As for checking how much a Civ is paying, I guess normally that's supposed to be not so easy to find for the player? Though if you know the mechanics I guess it's pretty straight forward. What I did was check the trade screen to see how much their excess gold altered. At first I thought the no-change had to be a glitch, and would update the next turn, but nope.. still no change. Hundreds of units and they are running pacifism without paying a cent...

Any human would have instantly gone into the red and lost 90% of the army before the next turn...

Anyhow, time to make some good stuff to eat, and then I'll try to put together the next batch of turnsets....

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, in my tests, they usually switched back in 30-40 turns. Now, 30-40 turns on marathon is one thing, on normal is... quite another

Why I like cristo is for denying them fs and us(which are quite powerful given their type of econ.). I just change all 4 civics so they spend more turns when they want to switch back - if they don't, they're still in trouble(if they have corps, I leave them in environmentalism - afterall, even the starting one is better ).

Without looking at the code, just playing, they seem to have some threshold which has to be passed in order to switch civics. The most obvious point is merc. - on marathon, they'll end up in merc. for a while all the time; now, trying to play on normal a few games, sometimes they go directly fm(obviously there are fewer turns on normal and sometimes they don't seem to pass those checks in the few turns when only merc. is available). It's probably a check on the "urgency" of their current builds and if they can afford the anarchy turns - what's weird is that this is obviously also calculated for spiritual leaders, which... don't exactly have anarchy.

and regarding ai mil. upkeep:

had shaka with one last city, all swamped with mayan culture(obviously, with pop. 1). Basically, he had the city center and nothing else. ~60 units(his sod was blocked there the whole war since pacal was pissed with him and didn't have ob - very convenient as far as I was concerned ); didn't give myself gspies in wb so I don't know exactly what he had to pay, just saved and did about 30 end turns - he didn't have to disband 1 unit, despite his income was exactly 9gpt(city tile + palace)... so... what they pay for upkeep seems kinda nil.

P.S - didn't see this one:

BTW there are a couple of timers dealing with civic switches. The AI will not even think about switching during a period of 10/25 turns after the last voluntary switch (not forced by spies).10 turns for spiritual AIs (and maybe non-spirituals with Christo or last switch during GA; 2*MIN_REVOLUTION_TURNS);

now that's abit poorly code, to put it mildly...

 

[cripp7]

Seeing all of these coding errors, you would think Firaxis would fix this in the next patch. Or at least CivV(if it comes out)

 

[obsolete]

Turns 100-110

Spoiler :

In 300 BC we got a notice the HG went up. I wonder who else found stone....
Anyhow, around the same time we found our little Gold-City. I don’t really care about the commerce from the gold, I just want the happiness.
The next turn, we got our GM, and settled him in the capital.
On Turn #106 the Kashi V. was built somewhere...
And on turn #108 the Parthenon went up. Shame we didn’t have any marble...
And at turn #109 we popped a hut, (I had a bunch of chariots expecting barbs to spring). Instead... we popped Calendar! I don’t remember this happening since.... my early days on Vanilla. Brings back nostalgic memories...

Turns 110-120

Spoiler :

Some more good fortune after timing our hut-pops just right. This one here ended up getting us Iron Working. I had an extra chariot ready because I was expecting a horde of barbs to pop up from that. Anyhow, our luck ran out after this and no other huts popped techs, but that’s the great thing you can exploit in isolation.
By the way, I had a settler with the other chariot and used him to settle in place there, I called it Tundra-City for obvious reasons. In hindsight I should have just settled him and let the culture safely pop the hut. So I don’t know what I was thinking...
We also FINALLY met.... Zara.

Turns 120-130

Spoiler :

We soon met Hannibal. Actually these guys met us more likely...
And then... Monte the crazy backstabber. Oh boy.... I may have no choice but to get dragged into a war here...
And unfortunately, Zara ended up proving that the world was round, and we had only just started researching CoL!!!
Some more news... My chariots never ended up getting a break from barb-patrol issues. Just constant barb after barb battles even still. And to make things really painful, now the barbs were coming with spearmen instead of axemen, just to screw over the Egyptian UU!
I also ended up founding 2 cities in my southern flank. Fish-Corner City, and Iron City below that. And looks like there is a barb city near there, where I may be able to capture it in time.

Turns 130-140

Spoiler :

Popped another GM, which was settled obviously. Somehow, I missed my high odds for a scientist to get my academy.
And here was our only city for this turn-set. I didn’t know what to call it, so I used Lonely Cow City. At least it fills in more of my lands.

Turns 140-150

Spoiler :

Sistine Chapel was completed somewhere, and Islam was founded. These Ai’s are pretty dumb...
Also it seems Monte was fighting with Zara. But it’s all ok, they made peace now.
Then, we met Cyrus. Also, Monte went weehorn again basically right after making peace. I could be in trouble here...
Anyhow, for the time being I founded Marble City. Unfortunately we are way past the BC era here, so it isn’t going to be that precious now.
By the way, I didn’t know there was a crab so close to the marble or I would have changed my positioning of the city. But at least I do get the horses in the ring this way.

Turns 150-160

Spoiler :

And here is yet another city for us. Thanks to the local barb community. However, good thing I had sent more units to attack it than would be expected as I seem to have been rolling not so hot in these battles. But... we did prevail when the dust settled. Now, to rename the town as Banana-City.

On my last turn for this set, Cyrus came out and DEMANDED I convert to Buddhism. Well, I had been worrying and debating on which religion to switch to, if I switch at all, and all the other problems I would end up with. But hell, Cyrus just made it a hell of a lot easier now!

Well, Monte is obviously going to attack me at some point now for sure. But since he is already weehorn, if he does attack soon, it is most likely he had me already targeted next in line anyway.
Oh, and just when the war threats couldn’t get any worse.... Khmer shows up!
But...
PHEWWWW! Cyrus is willing to make a defense pact with me already. BEFORE 1000 AD!? Hell... SOMEONE looks like they were beelining some heavy military techs...

Turns 160-170

Spoiler :

We won liberalism and chose our tech on turn #168. And I played the liberalism run pretty bad. After popping more than my fair share of GMs and not scientists, I was pretty worried about my lacking academy. Also, I had been startled before this when my very early run at the Great Library disappeared when I was chopping away on it. By the time I finally got my first scientist, I had even forgot for a moment I had built the Mids, and hence was running Rep, which made me keep it in reserve (instead of academy) and it wasn’t until I popped the next scientist I realized my mistake. So I just decided the hell with it, and use the 2 to bulb education otherwise it would look even more foolish getting the academy THEN after all that other time had passed. What a waste of beakers though.

Even more sad, is that Zara the tech-master tends to go after Physics and unlock electricity before he even thinks about putting a single beaker into education. I really wasn’t in any big danger of losing the lib-race. So I did not play this one optimally. I really should start putting sticky-notes on my screen before I act.
Note: With 4 turns left on the lib run, I popped another hut. Sadly no tech, but there was a remote chance I could have actually popped liberalism here (in a deity game!) That would have been one for the books...

Turns 170-180

Spoiler :

I am so desperate for copper. Forget about the stupid axemen, without copper I can’t get my SoL, I can’t get my Internet, I cant get.....
So looks like I have no choice here, but to found my most crappiest of all cities, COPPER-JUNK City. I also should call this GIFTER-CITY, because after the internet (if I don’t get another source of copper) I may end up just gifting this to stupid Hannibal who will think... ZOMG, a free city! Let me give you +4 relations bud for being soooo special and nice to me!
What a joke... ice.. tundra... no food what-soever... And not even a god damn tile with a hammer on it! LOL.
And shortly after that, Toku greets us. Ohhh geeze. Well... thank god I got my defense pact with Cyrus.

But...... Monte the IDIOT is not just weehorn, but ended up putting me as his worst enemy now. Hmm, this may have something to do with refusing to give him civil service a while back. Well, let’s see. Do I want Monte to backstab me with axemen, or backstab me with macemen. Hmmmmmmmmmm...... tuff... decision!

Anyone can help me out here on which is the most optimal choice? Give in or... not!

I think not!

In other news, I simply am still plagued by NEVER ENDING BARB PROBLEMS! Even my home lands that have everything fog busted are showing never ending streams of barb boats spawning. It’s really slowing me down and won’t let up. Pretty sick for a deity game at this late stage. But at least I FINALLY got my academy built now.

Turns 180-190

Spoiler :

Well, sure enough, at turn #184 Monte suddenly says...
Time to die....
And he is smiling... I don’t get it?
Anyhow, here is the first wave... luckily it’s only crossbows for now, while I am the one who gets to upgrade to and draft Maces. Muahaha... I’m not sure what if anything Monte is sending to Cyrus, but I must thank the idiot for this war. It’s now turned Cyrus from pleased to friendly status with me.
Oh, and we ended up meeting Saladin, who was created by Cyrus.
And for some reason, that silly Khmer decided to grab a useless tile in my far south ONLY because it was a tile that was free. There isn’t even a resource or a hill, or food available for it. What a dork...

Turns 190-200

Spoiler :

Alright, now Monte just came out with a second wave, much more deadlier. A bunch of knights and it was aimed at my copper-junk city next to the continent Hannibal claimed. There was NO chance of defending it... zip, despite being on a hill. So, instead of letting Monte take it AND getting WINNING-THE-WAR points, I decided to flee away from it, and gifted the city to Hannibal.
Anyhow, I ended up doing something I normally don’t here. I used a popped GE to rush the SoL. The problem, is that I just lost my copper city because of this war. And while I do have one more copper source reserved from Cyrus, I can’t depend on it as any random event may take it from him, including Monte’s war, etc. I will be stuck for another 9 turns at least working on this SoL, and all the while Monte is getting some deity SoD’s ready to try and take another city from me any moment. Knights are pretty bad as it is and this war is just going to have to cost me even more sacrifies. So... we close our eyes and hit the rush-build button.

 

[DMOC]

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.

 

[cripp7]

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.

What's the biggest tech you can pop from a hut?

 

[Gliese 581]

What's the biggest tech you can pop from a hut?

He just told you it's Astronomy, it's in the quote.

 

[obsolete]

I don't think it is possible to pop Liberalism from a hut. Astronomy is the best, and the second best in terms of beaker price is Music.

Alright, good to know in the future. No sense in keeping huts in RESERVE after Astronomy opens up.

 

[DMOC]

Here are all the possible techs from huts:

Mysticism
Priesthood
Monarchy
Literature
Drama
Music
Fishing
The Wheel
Agriculture
Pottery
Sailing
Writing
Mathematics
Calendar
Currency
Astronomy
Hunting
Mining
Archery
Masonry
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
Horseback Riding
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Compass
Construction

Aesthetics was added to this list in BtS.

 

[Hereditary Rule]

Here are all the possible techs from huts:

Mysticism
Priesthood
Monarchy
Literature
Drama
Music
Fishing
The Wheel
Agriculture
Pottery
Sailing
Writing
Mathematics
Calendar
Currency
Astronomy
Hunting
Mining
Archery
Masonry
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
Horseback Riding
Iron Working
Metal Casting
Compass
Construction

I don't see Aesthetics on that list, which I just popped from a later hut in my current game.

 

[DMOC]

I got this list from another source, which might have been for vanilla/warlords, where there wasn't any Aesthetics. For BTS, I think Aesthetics would be the only new hut-enabled technology as the others are expensive.

 

[Joshua368]

Music is noteworthy as the only free tech you can get that gives you a reward for being the first to reach... which seems a little unfair.

 

[royal62184]

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

The last time I looked, the mechanic for explorers and scouts was the same (if you get a bad dice roll, try again up to 10 rolls).

 

[DMOC]

In the rare case where you actually find a hut in the late game, do explorers have better odds than scouts?

The only reason to use an explorer would be to survive if 5 barbarian warriors pop. But the mechanics are the same.

Anyway, looking forward to the next update, as usual....

 

[Joshua368]

The last time I looked, the mechanic for explorers and scouts was the same (if you get a bad dice roll, try again up to 10 rolls).

Explorers are laughably useless though because barbarians love to squat on late huts. Even a warrior will keep an explorer at bay... military units or spies are better.

 

[obsolete]

I find it broken that explorers can't be upgraded. They SHOULD be able to transition into airships.