RBC12A - Fall of Rome - Vizigoths (Deity)

Wow, exciting stuff indeed. I can most definitely agree on how wired this game can get ya and how mentally exhausted you are afterwards, after my last turn in the Sid game. :)

One comment: Constantinople and Thessalonika are VP locations for East Rome. If you take them out, it will slow their VP accumulation and buy another extra turn or two.
 
IHT: Western Rome is no more. Eastern Rome is 3 cities from a loss. The exact same number of cities that we can reach within 6 turns.
We have 38 warlords, 4 pillagers, 18 catapults and an army. To name the highlights!
We are weak compared to Eastern Rome, but their troops probably are fighting the Sassanids in Turkey.
Our army is average compared to the Sassanids, Ostrogoths, Huns and others. Weak vs the Vandals and strong vs the Anglo-Saxons.

My aim in the next 20 years are:
-Take out the remaining cities needed to ge the VP's from killing the Byzantines. Main targets are Salonae and Thessalonika, but Constantinople is also in the picture.
-Reassemble our troops in our territory and look for the next foe. Probably the Ostrogoths...

The army, 4 other warlords, 4 catapults and a few smaller units go to Salonae. A total of 10 warlords and 5 catapults are planned for Thessalonika.

IT: A lot of Vandal warlords move outh. A Byzantine HC kills our marauder.

Turn 1 (496 AD) Two warlords added to the total.

VP: 14795
Eastern Rome: 29105
Cities lost Eastern Rome: 5

A marauder lets a HC retreat and a warlord finishes the job. A walord destroys the temple of Salonae and kills a Legionary. A pike is revealed!

IT: Eastern Rome and the Franks sign peace.

Turn 2 (498 AD)

VP: 14965 (+170)
VP ER: 29450 (+345)
Cities lost ER: 6

6 cities lost. I am sure that I can take Salonae with our SoD, but that would give the Sassanids the opportunity to collect the VP's.
Constantinople is surrounded by four of our warlords, a pillager and 4 catapults. That won't work this turn. Near Thessalonika we only have one warlor in striking distance.

Salonae: The catapults reveal that Salonae only has two pikes defending. A veteran warlord takes out one and turns elite. The other pike is spared for the moment.
Constantinople: A warlord kills a legionary in Constantinople. Another one destroys the barracks but is killed. A pillager kills a third legionary and we get a worker from the fight.
Thessaloniki: An elite warlord kills a vet legionary and we get a leader! I forgot to take a screenshot :blush:

IT: The Anglo Saxons demand tm and 26 gold. I give it to them, because it is a non-issue. The Ostrogoths betray us and sign peace with the Byzantines.
The Byzantines are willing to give all their knowledge for peace. I say no.

Turn 3 (500 AD)

VP: 15135 (+170)
VP ER: 30085 (+625)
Cities lost ER: 6

So no change on the lost city front. We still don't have enough troop around Constantinople and Thessalonika, so we have to hope for the best.

Constantinople: A warlord kills a legionary that was trying to get to the city. An elite warlord is killed by a vet legionary in the size 5 city.
The troops around Thessalonika wait for reinforcements.
Salonae: Catapult redline the pike and destroy a library.

IT: The Ostrogoths send in 8 spear and a settler. They can be used for target practise once Rome is killed I guess. The Byzantines drop of 3 HC units near Wallialund :eek:

Turn 4 (502 AD)

VP: 15305 (+170)
VP ER: 30670 (+585)
Cities lost ER: 6

We luckily have a few troops within our borders. So a vet warlord and marauder kill/retreat two HC's. A vet horseman is able to kill the thrid one.Lastly a raider kills the redlined HC.

Thessalonika: An elite and a vet warlord kill Legionaries and enslave marauders. We now have 10 warlord ready to strike next turn.

Turn 5 (504 AD) - The year of the Vizigoths :cool:

VP: 15495 (+190)
VP ER: 30975 (+305)
Cities lost ER: 7 [party]

Two cities riot. This is due to the fact that I had troops to kil the HC last turn. I guess I didn't pay enough attention there.

To celebrate the fact that we only have to take one city, our warlords start attacking as many Byznatine units as possible
(but not before an army is formed of our leader in 498 AD):

-elite warlord kills legionary in Thessaloniki
-two elite warlords killed by legionaries in Thessa... :(
-two vet warlords kill legionaries and enslave marauders
-two vet warlords kill legionaries and promote
-elite pillager killed by legionary
-vet warlord kills a legionary in Constantinpole and promotes

In the final battle we redline a pike in Salonae with our catapults. An elite warlord does the rest:



Good luck? Good skill? Good killing? No....Good Riddance :hammer:



Our VP is now 22145 and the Sassanids have a mere 6890.

The world is at peace!



However I notice that we have a rop with the Ostrogoths, who have already lost 4 cities. This means that we have to seek another target...
The Anglo Saxons? They have a couple of useless cities close by for easy VP... No, we still have 8 turns of a peace deal with them :(
The Vandals have a lot of troops neaby and are stronger than us. Still I'm tempted to go after them.

Before I continue I would like to discuss what to do now. Any ideas?

504 AD save as discussion material
 
well, the Ostrogoths have already betrayed us twice. I'd go for them...how long on the rop/how much would it hurt our rep to cancel the rop and attack anyway (NOT rop rape)?

Alternatively, maybe pick on one of the tougher civs (Vandals?) and start a dogpile on them?

Great killing, btw ;)
 
That ROP is still there for 14 turns.

EDIT: I assume that it is out of the question to end the ROP deal. I'm very tempted to declare war on the Vandals and start a dogpile. I'll play in a few hours.

EDIT2: If it weren't for the fact that the Vandals have 30+ warlords close to us!
 
Well done! Nice job holding off on the killing blow of Salonae. :goodjob: It was somewhat nice not to have to take dwon Constantinople, although sending so few troops south made us dependent on Sassy's skill for us not to lose.

Looks like we got about 6.5K from ERome, and so we'll probably need to take out TWO civs to insure our victory. Tis a good question as to 'who'. The RoP timing with Ostrogoths was awkward, but not renewing risked them attacking us, costing the game.

VP: 22,145, +a measly 100VP per turn. We can't really sit on our laurels. Turn: 90 of 150, so a max of 60 turns to go (6 player turns). That's plenty of time to take out two civ, and probably 30 more on top of that.

We're avg compared to: Ostro, Anglo, Huns, Sassanids
We're weak compared to: Vandals, Franks, Celts.
We have (only) 102 units. Let's look at the map and VP graph (mislabeled as power. Power is fairly uniform, Anglos weakest, Vandals most powerful)



Who?
- Just look at units in the open the civ I *least* want to fight and most want to ally with are Vandals. Even worse, they are all over our lands and could like eliminate us within 10 turns.
- For payback to what human Ostro's did to Vizis, and for the fact they're down 4 cities, imho the Ostrogoths *must* go. The question is when. Given a 14+ turn wait, maybe get them for the second civ we need?
- Anglo-Saxons are not only weakest, but their cities are spread out and isolated from their core. An alliance with Franks would decimate the Anglos. 8 turns pax to go. (Obviously, we can't check before declaring war whether we could get an alliance or not). Our army, btw, is well poised to raze 3 Anglo cities in short order. We can't see how many cities they've lost, but looking at the odd border pattern, and theyir 'avg' military, I'm going to guess they've lost several already.
- Huns are far away and only avg. We could declare, ally with Ostro now, and send over just a WL army (for speed and power). If Ostro's win, army can poach city #8, and if instead the Huns kick Ostro's tail, we can backstab and get their 8th city instead ( :eek: I know, not preferred)
- Franks are tough, and last I saw, had a ton of WL's near our land. It might not be a good idea *unless* Vandals and us allied vs Franks. That would let the two strongest armies clash, and in 20 turns we take out the loser with less cities left.
- Sass are just too far -- we have no means of getting our army over there.
- Celts - unless they settle junk on the continent, we'll never touch them, and a phony war is an awful idea that invites them to dogpile us.

So there are several decent options.
- Ally Vandals vs Franks
- Ally Franks vs Anglo
- Ally Ostro vs Huns
- Ally Vandal vs Huns (to keep Vandals off us and to move their 100 WL out of our land!)
- Do nothing for 14 turns but builds up troops and defenses, the reassess as peace with Ostros end
- Keep Vandals happy also seems important for now

Other ideas?

Note to next leader - a TON of our units are on goto - careful.
Any luxes available now that ERome is gone (e.g. spices)?

Charis
 
Isn't Aggie still the leader? So the goto's are midturn and therefore a-OK? I got the impression this was a mid-turn call for proposals, not an early pass-off.

No real strong recommendation from me. I do want to note another option, however. We can claim as many VP locations as possible and try to get our final ~7K that way. Noone's going to catch us very easily. Not very dramatic, perhaps, but probably pretty safe.

Arathorn

P.S. I have no problem with declaring on the Ostrogoths while we have a RoP with them, as long as we have no units in their territory and they have none (or very few) in ours when we do it.
 
> @Charis: units are on goto, but I still have to play 5 turns
:lol: Well.. there is that,yes! :p

My comments then for leader to be careful must have meant... "Don't get your finger smashed with that hammer!" :hammer:

The advantage of quick Ostro war is that we'll find out sooner who the next big weakling is, on cities lost. The downside is that a war during RoP will likely mean no more alliances this game - this isn't huge, as long as no one "Vandalizes" us. (Too bad there is no "non-aggression pact", btw, we could use one here)

How many VP's per turn per location? With 10K to go, that might take quite a while, but I can't guess on that option w/o knowing how much a site is worth.

Good luck!
Charis
 
Turn 5 (504 AD) Fall of Rome scenario without Rome. Hmmm, ok. :crazyeye:

Troops move eastward.

IT: 12 Ostrogoths spearmen pass our lands.

Turn 6 (506 AD)

VP: 22245 (+100)
Sassanids : 6995 (+105)

I wait until the Ostrogoths have passed. They are very easy pray now and that is not what a ROP is about.

IT: The Celts start Hagia Spohia.

Turn 7 (508 AD)

VP: 22345 (+100)
Sassanids: 7070 (+75)

We control 4 Victory Locations. This means 25 VP's per turn per location. That is not really a lot isn't it? 4 warlords are added to the army. We now have two mighty units. Too many Ostrogoths cross our lands. So no war.

Turn 8 (510 AD)

VP: 22445 (+100)
Sassanids: 7165 (+95)

We claim the VL of former Athens.

IT: Ostrogoth spears are moving towards victory locations that we already have claimed. They come with spears, so no worries :)

Turn 9 (512 AD)

VP: 22570 (+125)
Sassanids: 7275 (+110)

Turn 10 (514 AD)

VP: 22695 (+125)
Sassanids: 7385 (+110)

Troops are ready to invade Ostrogoths, but there are still spears in our territory. Other troops (less of them) are almost ready to attack Eisleben (Anglo Saxons). Winchester (Anglo Saxons) is also an easy target.

We could easily do nothing and win. But where's the fun in that?

514 AD save
 
Got it. Totally baffled what to do: Although Troops are ready to invade Ostrogoths we have a RoP for another 9 turns.

I can't find another logical target.
 
The Anglo-Saxons are another logical target.

I didn't attack the Ostrogoths because they had a lot of spearmen walking trhough our territory. That -imho- was the consensus during my little break after killing the Byzantines. Cancelling the ROP is ok, but not when we or the Ostrogoths are having more than a few troops using the ROP.

An alternative is to do nothing for 9 turns. We make more VP's per trun than the Sasanids. :sleep:
 
514 AD
:confused: The confused Visigoths.
Rome is dead, and the generals wonder what more needs to be done.

We have 9 turns of RoP left with Ostrogoth, so nothing will happen on that front. However, we never agreed to let the Vandals into our lands.


518 AD
(I) The Franks just signed there death sentence when the steal a vp location by building a city. :mad:

524 AD
Is this the right move? I don't know, but at this point we would be very hard pressed to loss. I declare war on the evil, vp stealing Franks. I send the Anglo Saxons $15/turn to join the part. One army and two elite horses are enough to raze Poitiers. We have just 7 cities to go. The other army attacks a spearman and gets a new Marauder who captures two Frank workers. :crazyeye:
(I) The Celts join the beat up the Franks party.
Now this is NOT pleasant - The Sassanids ally with the Franks against us.
My second Frank city target was razed by someone.

526 AD
Franks now appear on the victory screen with 4 destroyed cities!
Selswair is formed reclaiming our VP site.


526 AD
Well I didn't think the Franks were this hopeless. They have now lost 6 cities, and we may be challenged to get the kill!
(I) Celts and Vandals ally vs. the Franks!
Sassanids and Celts ally vs. the Franks.
Huns and Sassanids ally vs. the Franks.
The Celts complete Hagia Sophia. Since we have no churches, who cares?


528 AD
Ostrogoths join the dog pile on the Franks.

Summary:
Well the Franks still have 6 destroyed cities. Our army is next to Bordeaux, and reinforcements arrive next turn. Now if all those silly AI can kill another city...

Most troops are fortified near the Anglo-Saxons, I wonder why? :devil:



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/RBC12A-534AD.zip
 
(0) 534 - We're in position to finish off the Franks, if the AI civs can manage to take one but not two cities in the interturn. All reinforcements will head east, towards Ostrogoth lands, while current troops in the west will lay into the A-S once the Franks are gone. That sounds like a good plan. I check into buying the Huns in vs. the Sassanids, but it's not worth 30 gpt to me.

(I) Huns want 160 gold for their territory map. It has no value to me, so I say no. We're apparently trespassing on the Vandals. And, after 5+ minutes, the Franks still survive.

(1) 536 - Franks are still at 6 cities lost. Another turn of positioning on the A-S and Ostros, but I have little patience.

(I) AI is still incompetent and I have no more patience.

(2) 538 - Declare on A-S and move in en masse.

(I) Kill some Anglo-Saxons. Vandals show up with 7 cities lost on F8. I can't reach any of their cities this turn, but I'll position for them for next turn, approximately, if they last that long. I didn't see that one coming at all!

(3) 540 - Get a MGL in the battle for Eisleben. We have NO cities nearby, so I'll probably keep the city instead of razing it, simply to get the army built. It's not like the A-S tribe will live very long anyway. Actually, it auto-razes, so I had no choice. Raze Athelney of the A-S. Raze Dijon of the A-S.

Vandals 7 cities still tops the list. We're mowing through troops fast though. Vandals will be next, with Ostrogoths to follow, if necessary.

(I) Still takes forever. Vandals kick us out, so I can declare next time with no units in their territories! Whee!

(4) 542 - Raze Chester of the A-S. Order Vandals out. They declare on us instead. Munch a couple exposed troops but mainly move to take a city next turn. We might lose a few spears and workers, but our cities should be safe.

Not much else I can do. Will reach another Frank city before too long to finish them off. Vandals will die next turn unless thay have a HUGE garrison in a tiny remote city. A-S are falling fast. I'm not reaty to hit Ostrogoths yet.

(I) Dangit! Vandals destroy the Franks. I should've just taken the city I could've when I had the chance. And the frickin' Vandals did have 8+ offensive troops in their tiny city. Could be a bit ugly. Lose a troop here and there elsewhere, but mostly keep things even.

(5) 544 - Kill 5 spears and a couple HCav in New Panormus of the Vandals, a tiny city out in BFE for them but I don't take the city. It's gonna be ugly there. Fortunately, all our cities are still safe.

Capture Lindsey from the A-S as a forward base and to preserve roads towards more A-S cities.

Depressing little else I can do.

Debate passing off here, since I took 15 to start, but I just don't think this game has a lot of time left. I hope i can finish it off myself ASAP.

(I) Huns declare war on the Sassanids! Cool. I wanted that anyway. Having those two fight can only be good for us.

At least nobody else gets destroyed this interturn.

(6) 546 - Destroy a Vandal city (New Panormus, which was down to two defenders) and watch the game hibernate for a good 30 seconds and then we see that we've destroyed the Fragile Vandals. Excellent!

Checking F8 shows 35,035 VPs, so I won't even get to destroy two A-S cities to eliminate them (they're up next on F8, with 6 cities lost). I could declare on the Ostros, too, just for good measure and to get a few more unit elimination points, but why?

Actually, I'm not even in much of a position to hurt anyone, so I simply shift-enter the rest of the game away.

And....



Sassanids had all the top cities. Our culture was essentially non-existent. Check out the F8 comparison. Even after civ and civ disappears, our little pixel of purple never grows....

Check it out yourself if you'd like.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc12a-546ad.zip

Fun game. Thanks to everyone!

Arathorn
 
Good job Lee, for not just sitting around but finding a good target, and Arathorn for finishing it.

Great job, team! :goodjob:

We beat what (still) seems to be the toughest starting position, on a tough difficulty. We never did have as much land or troops as the others, but what we had, we used well :hammer:
Fortunately no random civ or dogpile occurred on us - as this scenario really favors the attacker.

:cool:
Charis
 
Great play guys, an excellent victory! A lot of fun to play in and overall we got our timing right, IMO that was the key to victory.
 
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