Re: Research Agreements

[boehj]

I'm not using them. Should I be? A few questions:

a)Do RAs help me stay on good diplomatic terms with the AI?

b)Is a RA always a good thing if I have the cash on hand?

c)Is the AI getting the same tech as me?

Part c) worries me most. If I have a tech lead, I'd like to keep it.

Any useful suggestions or comments regarding RAs would be greatly appreciated as I feel I'm missing an important part of the game here.

 

[biohazard72]

A). Probably. But we can't be sure.
B). Most of the time, unless you plan on war or would rather use the cash elsewhere (City-states, rush-buying).
C). No. They get a random tech they can research. This means if they have a tech lead, they'll get a more expensive tech (and vice-versa).

 

[Lanstro]

I start mass-signing them from about mid medieval. They're priced far too cheaply for their benefits.

 

[Izmir Stinger]

A). Probably. But we can't be sure.

I don't know. AI leaders don't seem to have a problem with signing research agreements with leaders they are involved in a pact of secrecy against. If they considered this cozy diplo behavior they wouldn't do that right? Or is applying logic to the diplomatic AI an exercise in futility?

 

[CultureManiac]

I don't know. AI leaders don't seem to have a problem with signing research agreements with leaders they are involved in a pact of secrecy against. If they considered this cozy diplo behavior they wouldn't do that right? Or is applying logic to the diplomatic AI an exercise in futility?

I've always seen this as a form of backstabbing. They get you to agree to a pact of secrecy to stop YOU from trading with the other civ, letting them reap the benefits alone. Once I see that my level of trust with said civ drops substantially.

 

[CultureManiac]

To the OP,
I use them as much as I can afford. Sure it's not perfect, you're giving another AI a tech as well, but that's better than two AIs signing an RA together. And sometimes you get a tech you are already researching. But if you have lots of gold, which hopefully you do, you can have RAs signed with almost everyone if you keep watching the diplo screen so you can see who is ready to sign. When you add that to your tech rate and GS, it really helps you catch up and then get ahead in the tech race.

 

[boehj]

Gold is rarely a problem as I play as China with quite a few early puppets working TPs.

I'll actively pursue RAs next game and see if it speed things up for me.

 

[Ashwind]

To the OP, yes you should sign RAs as soon as you can, with as many Civs as you can - as long as you can be sure they aren't going to be involved in a war with you.

Take this scenario.

Civ A signs RAs with 3 other Civs: B, C, D.

At the end of the term, assuming equal rate of tech, A is up by 3 techs, B, C, D by one each. Would you rather be A or B, C and D?

The more technologically advance you are, the more value you get from the RA. Always sign RA if you can. Some people even give the AI money so that they have enough gold to sign an RA with the player.

 

[flyingbunnys]

I don't bother with research argreements any more, seems like everytime I try the AI turns around a declares war with me. I'm usually well ahead of the AI in tech anyway even playing on levels above prince.

 

[Bandobras Took]

I start mass-signing them from about mid medieval. They're priced far too cheaply for their benefits.

Only on difficulty levels where the AI actually has spare gold.

 

[neptune2000]

Some people even give the AI money so that they have enough gold to sign an RA with the player.

Is there a way to tell whether they'll sign one before you give them the gold? I seem to remember gifting some money and then the Civ wouldn't sign one with me, but I could be wrong.

 

[moyang]

a)Do RAs help me stay on good diplomatic terms with the AI?

Once I signed RA with Arab, only to DoWed after 10 turns
I Think they don't mind RAs.. maybe next patch would clarify.

 

[eris]

If you look at the diplomacy overview, it will list what agreements are available. If it is grayed out, you can hover the cursor over the the words "research agreement" and it will tell you why it is unavailable. Usually it is something about one player not having enough gold. It can also be a message that a research agreement is already in place.

 

[boehj]

Thanks for all the replies folks. I've since signed a few. I've got a few good techs, a few bad techs and a couple of times the sneaky bugger has DOW'd me a few turns after I've ponied up the cash!

I'll keep experimenting with them.

 

[CharonJr]

Is there a way to tell whether they'll sign one before you give them the gold? I seem to remember gifting some money and then the Civ wouldn't sign one with me, but I could be wrong.

Often they want 1 luxury to sign the agreement and when they are hostile you have to give them a lot of luxuries (I think it took me 8).

CharonJr

 

[NukeAJS]

I've received techs that I was one turn away from discovering myself the ole fashioned way. Basically I threw away gold that could have been used in a more useful way for a meager amount of beakers.

That being said, I like the general idea of the research agreement, but it could have been thought-out/play-tested better. Mainly, they should be more expensive. The AI shouldn't sign agreements with players it is hostile with or plans to go to war with soon (doesn't make sense to essentially give a Civ a tech whom they plan on fighting soon as that tech could be a military one). They should only gift techs that are available but have zero beakers towards them. Lastly, the techs gifted should be as close to the same amount of beakers as possible.

My 2 cents.

 

[HermannLombard]

It turns out that you can guide the tech that you will receive, or rather block techs that you do not want to receive. From Martin Alvito's Deity Spaceship Under 200 Turns thread:

Make sure that you time your research so that you can "select" not to take Metallurgy or Fertilizer with Research Agreements. To avoid unlocking those techs, you need to have completed a full turn of research on each in the turn before a Research Agreement ends. Switch away and research something you need after a single turn of researching one of those techs.

Works like a charm...or exploits like a charm, YMMV.

 

[Ashwind]

RA prices depends on the era you are both in.

I don't sign RAs with HOSTILES - too expensive and likely to be cancelled by DoW.

If you are in the same era with the AI, it will be an equal pact. If you are an era or two behind, it will be an equal pact. If you are an era or two ahead, you will need to top up. On top of the increased RA price you both pay.

As stated above, there is a way to 'exploit' the RA. Unless you have no other techs to be discovered, the RA 'free tech' will normally be the tech you are NOT currently researching, assuming you have spent one full turn researching it.

For eg, Turn 114, an RA is expected to be completed. You timed your research to complete on turn 113 so you can choose the tech you DO NOT want to discover. The next turn, 114 finishes and the RA grants you one of the other researchable techs. You can on turn 115 select another tech that you want to research or keep researching the same assuming you have RAs lined up in succession. One way to prevent A cheap tech from being discovered by 'mistake'

 

[boehj]

Lovely info, cheers.

 

[Ashwind]

I don't bother with research argreements any more, seems like everytime I try the AI turns around a declares war with me. I'm usually well ahead of the AI in tech anyway even playing on levels above prince.

Try signing it with AIs who do not share a border with you. And don't be the one who takes out the last city of any AI Civ. Ever. I don't attack CS so not sure how that works out.