Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

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First, let me apoglize for the essentially knee jerk reaction to the First Coliations loss.

No harm done. You should see some of the squabbles that break out in american politics:D

Anyways, i agree with arya in that we should pursue a middle ground, maintaining cordial relations with the other civs while building up to strike at the opportune moment; then striking a blow that they will not forget for a long time. (Sorry if that was a bit less grandiose-sounding than what the other posters are saying, i never was a very good writer)

Most of all, we need to grab the mainland while we can, i favor writing-sailing, then settling in france to block out caesar as imperialistic leaders expand quite quickly.

So i'm finance, eh? at this stage i doubt the position will do anything, but i'm willing to lend a hand when needed.
 
Lopaz was on today, but he didn't post at all. I think we should move forward and put Ravus_sol not as acting Prime Minister, but England's First Prime Minister. What do you think?
 
No harm done. You should see some of the squabbles that break out in american politics:D

Anyways, i agree with arya in that we should pursue a middle ground, maintaining cordial relations with the other civs while building up to strike at the opportune moment; then striking a blow that they will not forget for a long time. (Sorry if that was a bit less grandiose-sounding than what the other posters are saying, i never was a very good writer)

Most of all, we need to grab the mainland while we can, i favor writing-sailing, then settling in france to block out caesar as imperialistic leaders expand quite quickly.

So i'm finance, eh? at this stage i doubt the position will do anything, but i'm willing to lend a hand when needed.

All you have to do is look at the public debates presidential nominees have. I actually believe in uneasy, decent relationships with Ragnar and Caesar while teching, expanding, and building up a stockpile of defensive units in case of a nightmare scenario. War's bad. War hurts people, kills people, and, in the long run, rip a hole in the participant nations forever.

I actually favor Sailing then a beeline to Mysticism and Masonry to get TGW, Stone, and Stonehenge. I believe Writing can be done at a later time. Once you get a settler in France, I recommend either building a worker right out of the gate of the new city, or start TGW while ferrying over units/worker/additional settlers.
 
Hold on for a second. It seems that you think i am advocating war with our neighbors. But that is wrong. I do not seek out war, purposely looking to kill off the fine people of britain. I instead seek to give them breathing space with which to live peacefully in. An uneasy peace is barely peace. Do you think our people will be happy if we let our enemies stray across our borders demanding whatever they please because we refuse to fight? or because we didnt establish oursleves as a mjor power beforehand? If we dont take care of theeuropean situation first and make sure that we have a secure peace with our neighbors, then we will not succeed in colonizing other prts of it. Unless we make sure that we will not be attacked close to our homeland, we cannot devote our empire to colonizing a new world.

Your logic doesnt make sense. would people really enjoy an uneasy peace lasting for hundreds, if not thousands of years, that will end up in the inevitable war that takes place in the british isles themselves, rather than getting the war over with quickly, in our enemies lands? Would you truly like to shed the blood of our peoples and our enemies for that matter, and have nothing to show for it besides keeping our cities? or would you think that people would want to know that their brother did not die in vain, that we had gotten something from that war, that his death had made a differnece.

It takes courage to defend ones homeland. But it takes true bravery to venture into the unknown, in order to make your homeland safe. Remeber that. It shall be the bane of our enemies.



Also i would apreciate it if i could recieve some feedback from my coalition and party on my views. These are merely my own for the moment.

And lighthearter do you mind if i create a sort of sidestory involving the Doom administration? Maybe Cull could do the same as he is Oppostion leader
 
You want to know the CoD's military philosophy? Here: We only fight to liberate people of foreign lands, and only if it is to an advantage to us, but we place some emphasis on military. We also hate monarchy. So we settle France (as I believe this is mutually acceptable to most parties), use it to build military, and when Gus declares himself king, we go to liberate those in need. I believe this is acceptable to the parties of the CoD?

I believe we should go for sailing first while building settler/warrior/galley/workers (not necessarily in that order) in London. Mysticism/Writing should probably be pursued next, with other options open (I believe the Stonehenge happy faces will be more useful than faster libraries in the long run). If the opposition or the other party members wish to do something else, we can debate that. The GW should be built in the land called France.

In the meantime, here are our coalition posts:

President: lopaz (?) currently filled by Vice-Prime-Minister/Vice-President Ravus
Interior Minister: SanePerson
Military Minister: Conquerer500
Foreign Minister: Arya126
Science Minister: NukeKnockout
Cultural Minister: OPEN
Finance Minister: Aysee

One of the problems I believe we have with the coalition is that we have not forged a joint party policy. We should form one and only then have this debate on whether we will be successful with the opposition. We have been elected, but we have not yet assumed office. Do not jump to immediately criticize us.
 
That is why i have specifically said what i hav wrote is not the official opinion, yet my own view towards it. To the end of joint policy, i believe i have a place to start on that. Give me a day or two to figure it out and ill send out an answer where we can debate internal coalition issues. This fractured debate has disturbed me greatly. We are merely proving Cull right in that we cannot hold strong. So lets start proving him wrong. COD!!!
 
SanePerson, is that your parties policy or CoD's? Use France to build military? I disagree. Use the ample land of France to expand and build up, and build defensive units.

Build order sounds great to me, but what is Nuke's tech path? I advocate Sailing then Mysticism, and Masonry. We jump to criticize CoD because, to be blunt, that is role the opposition plays. To challenge, and to, to a lesser extent, keep the administration in check.

Arya, you wish to kill to live? I believe that logic is flawed. An uneasy peace is still peace. Uneasy peace for years upon years, to me, is better than spilling blood, better than war for even ten years. Do you really think you can finish your war in less than that?

Bravery is not attacking other civilizations. Most people can attack other civilizations, and to "delve into the unknown." Bravery is fighting in the political field solo, and defending your ideas.

I was thinking about writing a post-story, after the Realpolitik is done/abandoned, if its okay with Lighthearter.
 
That is why i have specifically said what i hav wrote is not the official opinion, yet my own view towards it. To the end of joint policy, i believe i have a place to start on that. Give me a day or two to figure it out and ill send out an answer where we can debate internal coalition issues. This fractured debate has disturbed me greatly. We are merely proving Cull right in that we cannot hold strong. So lets start proving him wrong. COD!!!

Totally Off-Topic: COD!!! ;)
 
I urge all opposition members to speak whenever they want.
 
Dfending your ideas in politics solo is easy. i do that every day at school. you would be amazed how democratic people can be at my age...yet it is not bravery. Thats stubborness (which is good too). Bravery is when you risk your life for what you believe in. But when you risk your life in foriegn land that you dont know, then a new level is achieved.

And an uneasy peace would draw resources away from colonization. If we get the war over with, then we will already have an aremy to defend our lands should we be attacked (unlikely if my logic works) and we will be able to devote all our industries, our whole empire, towards sending men and women to the new world.
 
Surprising or not, I'm 13. I know what you're talking about. I'm saying if people back me up, then it has more weight, therefore better.People can be very stubborn. When you risk your life in a foreign land, that's good. But is it good? I think its a form of stupidity. (Note: I mean NO disrespect at all to the military forces throught the world, I'm merely stating it as in game, and theory, not real life.)

Again, war is horrible. You think once we conquer Caesar(which I still is atrocious, BTW), we're be content at that? We will have spare forces lying around. What do you think you do with them? Why, you declare war on Ragnar or someone else. The cycle repeats, and is self-supporting. We must no fight a single offensive battle, for if we do, we will be fighting forever.

Yes, war takes away from settling. But, we won't try to get in a war, right?
 
Lopaz was on today, but he didn't post at all. I think we should move forward and put Ravus_sol not as acting Prime Minister, but England's First Prime Minister. What do you think?

I agree. Ravus_Sol has done the work, and my belief is that he deserves the position. However, lopaz will have 24 hours starting now to claim it before I change anything.

- The Man

_______________

What a debate:D

Sorry I haven't been on - Nukeknockout and I were playing Battlefront II Galactic Conquest splitscreen on the PlayStation2(We won, BTW. LONG LIVE THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!!!!). Let me see . . . .

ilduce349 - I'd rather not, frankly. Cull nailed it. And also, I can't go to Megaupload or imageshack for another day or three, so be patient on the last update.

Cull - A post-story? OK. However, if I have a say in it then this will be the first-ever Realpolitik to get past the first elections alive, so you might want to try a story running inside the current one;)

And believe it or not, I'm 15. Homeschooled, however, so I don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about:D

arya126 - I don't mind at all!

CoD!!!!!:goodjob:

- Lighthearter
 
Thanks on the Prime Minister Issue.

LONG LIVE THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!:goodjob: Edit: Just because, may the evil, cruel empire live in filth, and death forever, for such a disgrace to humanity can not be tolerated. May the Empire die!

I was thinking once the Realpolitik has run its course, I will write a post story detailing everything up to the end, from the beginning, and maybe include people's thoughts.

CoD!!!

Seriously, does anybody in CoD want to change that name?
 
Build order sounds great to me, but what is Nuke's tech path? I advocate Sailing then Mysticism, and Masonry. We jump to criticize CoD because, to be blunt, that is role the opposition plays. To challenge, and to, to a lesser extent, keep the administration in check.

my tech path idea is Sailing->Mysticism->Masonry->Writing->Archery OR Animal Husbandry,and re-evaluate then(depending on what Lighthearter has already researched,and assuming we're still in office,and that President,whoops,vice President Ravus_Sol and the other advisors don't see a better way)

btw,what has already been researched,Light?

I acknowledge and sort of appreciate:confused: that this is your role,but you make all of our lives difficult from time to time.But the truth is the truth,and both justifies itself and cannot be denied,and the truth is that to my understanding we have no offensive or defensive capability at this time,and seriously need to take a lesson from China(grow beyond all reason).

Sorry I haven't been on - Nukeknockout and I were playing Battlefront II Galactic Conquest splitscreen on the PlayStation2(We won, BTW. LONG LIVE THE GALACTIC EMPIRE!!!!).

ah,those pathetic souls stood no chance.And at least i could outdo you and your Award Rifle in a TIE Interceptor:salute:.
 
Tech plan sounds good. I am however against early Writing/Archery. I see no reason to. Axes and TGW are good enough. While such techs such as Pottery, BW, and AH are out there, I think Writing play a smaller role.

While we have no real capabilities at this time, it does NOT mean we can't theorize, and debate over the future. Besides, many of these issues may apply to CoD's 50 turns. Foreign policy, potential warrior rush(no!), tech path, ideal builds, general strategy, etc.
 
There is a way to acquire Caesars cities without war you know - Paris should be a cultural powerhouse, and can flip cities Caesar settles in the North (Also, how many people here are underage? I thought people here would be a bit older...Also, I'm 14 in June).
 
Closing 17 in August, and getting prepared for arguably the most difficult year of my life; in next May, I give the final exams which will determine in which unuversity I will pass (thats the education system here)
 
@Ravus_Sol: I would might have gone in favor of building a Barracks first. Strange, but it allows London to expand before it builds workers/settlers.
An early beeline of Archery seems good, since with the proposed Barracks it will allow us to get ASAP these nice super-pro archers, and then maybe we can expand in France, using them as defensive units. If we are to follow this strategy, we should secure a stone resource, to get walls running (this way, we are protected until Gunpowder is reached)
These are the costs, if we are to safely get a foothold in continental Europe. Take it or leave it?
@Lighthearter: Is there Russia?
 
I go to bed, get called to work, get back and what do i see? two new pages of writing that i have to read because i'm now appranatly the leader. Damn you Cull! i wanted your job as a heckler! *grumbles*

Fine, i'll take the post of Prime Minister. I'll go through the posts in order;

-

Nukeknockout - Science Advisor: Consider yourself officially confirmed in your role of science minister. A Shame on deciding to negotiate with people instead of just dueling them...

As i believe we allready have Mysticism/agriculture/Fishing
Your techpath seems to be;
Sailing->Mysticism->Masonry->Writing->Archery OR Animal Husbandry

As i think we allready have mysticism (we must have... we can't have spent 20 turns on JUST sailing) so with that in mind i'd edit the tech path to be;
Sailing->Masonry->Wheel->Writing->Hunting->Animal Husbandry->(Archery or Bronze working, decided by the military advisor)

We need the wheel to connect the resources up to use the stone on stonehenge. Writing has been decreed by nearly all to be our main aim. We need Hunting to make a scout to explore Europe and once that is done we can get animal husbandry to work the cows in london (and check for horses for miltary application) then we go for our military tech to round of. After that we can backfill in the round. The next elected party can decide between foudning a religion/alphabet/Iron Working.

Lighthearter: I've accepted the position. When does the round start? Shame about your imageshack. I may as well keep it as the Coalition of Doom. No-one seems to have a better word to sum up our alliance. And it means the geek in me can chuckle and contemplate talking like Victor Von Doom.

Jayrad: I think i spotted you saying that you wanted to have jumped ship so that the whole nationalist coalition joined the CoD? i'm not sure on the legalities of it but even if you cannot if you declare yourself an indepentent so you can run for Culture Minister. I know it's not much of a title now but it would allow you some say over our national borders. For myself it would mean that i would have peoples from four different parties helping me out. :)

Cull - Opposition Leader: If the CoD was in permenant power you wish to know what our view on foreign affairs would be? We would probably rely mainly on ourselves, we'd end up having a few weaker civs that we would use as tech trading partners that know there place. We'd stay away from the main power blocks as they are and probably pursue a proactive policy of destroying any developing alliances before they can get too strong.
Thats the only way i can see our three parties meshing in foreign affairs.

Also on your aim to increase the First Coalition, don't forget that in the next election you can have new parties appearing and people may jump ship into the newer more slicker parties.

Ayra - Foriegn Minister: Your letter touched on everything needed and i agree completly, The only detraction the opposition brought up was that our new 'friends' could backstab us. The only amendment i'd like would be perhaps to post a permenant diplomat in the land to keep an eye on build up of forces or leaving settlers. For now a scout would surfice.
The summery of your letter seems to be for us to pursue absolutes correct? We do not try to please everyone, when we have friends we have completly allied friends. But when we have enemies we must destroy them uterly and leave no city behind.
Agreeable but as i'm sure the Military Advisor would point out, sometimes a quick strike will stop a culmitive build up of an enemy. (taking out a settler before it can settle an Iron City)

Conquerer - Military Minister: what are your views on the Archery/Axemen choice? Personally i'm leaning towards archery as we don't know if we have Bronze on the island yet. It's a question of chance and thus as the Military minister i leave it in your hands.

SanePerson - Interior Minister: Now that we have a good view on the other matters what should our build order be? You stated a basic outline as needing

Basic Build order = settler/worker/galley/stonehenge

Here's my draft of a build order in realtion to all the other needs.

Build order = Barracks->Worker->(work boat)->Warrior->Stonehenge->Galley->Scout->Settler-> Worker->Settler

I don't know if that piece of water london is working has fish/crabs or clams but it must have something if it's being worked and it doesn't have a work boat on it yet, i could be wrong. But after the worker is built we need time to build a road and work the stone before jumping onto Stonehenge. We could build a warrior to fogbust in Scotland or perhaps try and rush another worker. Or start the galley to explore the British isles...

Either way once Stonehenge is done we rush to colonise.

Worker: 2 turns for road. 6 turns for stone.

Your views please.
-

On War: Nations are for all intents and purposes an anthropomorphised fasimile of their inhabitants. A nation reflects the desires of it's people within. Whether through an autocracy or a republic. When a nation 'wars' it is thus fighting for the same reason people end up in fights. Fear, Anger, defence, revenge, justice, theft, and so on. Nations may become bullies, feeling themselves better then others. they may strike out in fear when pressed too hard. they may become enraged over actions, trade or terrorism. They may appoint themselves law-man on a global scale and they may declare themselves a pacifist.

The simile' i am driving at is that a persons first response is not to hit a stranger when they introduce himself unless you are a physcotic murderer. So far these stranger nations have nothing we want because we don't even KNOW what we want.

Let relationships develop first. Ceaser could become a convient ally if we allow his cities to grow from italy to germany, he will then be a cultural shield through which other enemies must advance to reach us. Ragnar could become a usefull tool to get trades of in his barren wasteland.

-

Current Cabinet
President: Ravus
Interior Minister: SanePerson
Military Minister: Conquerer500
Foreign Minister: Arya126
Science Minister: NukeKnockout
Cultural Minister: OPEN
Finance Minister: Aysee
Religion Minister: CLOSED (Non-Applicable)

I'd like to put forward the option in future that if two ministers OK someones application then they are allowed in. I can negate it later if need be but i just need a by-law to keep things moving.

-

Right that's me done. I'm off back to work.
 
Conquerer - Military Minister: what are your views on the Archery/Axemen choice? Personally i'm leaning towards archery as we don't know if we have Bronze on the island yet. It's a question of chance and thus as the Military minister i leave it in your hands.


Well unless this map has random resources which I don't think so Rome will have iron. Archers are defenseless vs praetorians
so if that happens then we will lose every defensive war in Europe against Rome so I think we
should try to get copper and have lots of axeman based in France even if just to defend our European possessions.
Also Ragnar is known for Military and we need to watch out for Military resources in his area to make sure he doesn't attack us with
a stack of 15 Berserkers and 10 catapults.
 
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