Republic slingshot

[NeMeSiS_BE]

Hi,

when reading about lot's of games in the forums, i notice a lot of gamers try to get to republic as soon as possiple and immediately change governement.

However, With Ainwood's fantastic (!!) Civ Assist tool - in the corruption tab - you can "try out" changes in governement before implementing them.

I noticed that mostly moving out of despotism yields lower gold / science than staying into despotism. eg : in my last GOTM - at 510BC i have 13 cities / 34 units.

In Despotism i have 67Gpt - 46 science beakers per turn and lose 28 commerce to corruption
When i switch to Republic : 21 Gpt - 47 science beakers and 22 commerce lost to corruption.
(for reference : Monarchy would result in 51Gpt - 47 science beakers and 22 lost commerce)

My question : does anybody takes this into account when switching governements ?

I agree that worker speed bonus and increased production/food also come into play - but where is the point where it's worthwile to switch ?

 

[Turner]

My question : does anybody takes this into account when switching governements ?

I'm sure some do. You have to look at how much it's going to cost you, and if you can afford that much at that point in time.

I agree that worker speed bonus and increased production/food also come into play - but where is the point where it's worthwile to switch ?

As a general rule of thumb, I would switch when you've got the infrastructure to support it. Roads/marketplaces make Republic worthwhile. If your civ is lacking on that, Republic is going to struggle. Make sure every tile that your pop works has a road on it. And get marketplaces in place as soon as possible.

 

[bingen]

I switch immediately since its much easier to build the required infrastructure after the switch. If unit upkeeping is killing you, start a war or learn to manage with less units.

 

[NeMeSiS_BE]

By 510BC - most of my core cities have roads / tiles are worked and some basic infrastructure is in place.

Units - would be a number of workers (at least 1/3th) some police units 1/3th and the rest is for exploring (a few) - some offensive units - small strategic reserve. can maybe cut a few units (5-6) but that wont make the difference...

 

[kb2tvl]

Switching is all about shields and food. Monarchy allows faster growth than despo and getting 5 or 10 food per turn is easy. With larger pops, you can build more faster. Giving consideration to trade is ok but for long term growth, a higher form of gov't makes more sense.

 

[Darkness]

I noticed that mostly moving out of despotism yields lower gold / science than staying into despotism. eg : in my last GOTM - at 510BC i have 13 cities / 34 units.

In Despotism i have 67Gpt - 46 science beakers per turn and lose 28 commerce to corruption
When i switch to Republic : 21 Gpt - 47 science beakers and 22 commerce lost to corruption.
(for reference : Monarchy would result in 51Gpt - 47 science beakers and 22 lost commerce)

My question : does anybody takes this into account when switching governements ?

I agree that worker speed bonus and increased production/food also come into play - but where is the point where it's worthwile to switch ?

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no worker speed bonus in Republic ( your confused with democracy I think).

Usually I switch to republic ASAP and then I take three things into account.
1. Infrastructure. Do I have enough workers around and enough tiles already improved to generate enough commerce to compensate for the loss of free unit support.
2. Units, derives from 1. I don't want to have a large army in the early stages of republic. just some scouting units, workers and settlers, and a mior bit of defense.
3. Luxuries. Do I have enough of them, otherwise I'll have to set the luxury slider to high to still make money and do research.

The despotic tile penalty makes me want to leave despotism ASAP, and since I'll be changing governments as little as possible (preferably just once) and eventually I'll want to have a republican govvernment, I usually do the republic slingshot. Granted, the first 20-25 turns after the change are a bit difficult but with careful management of your workers (built lots of roads) and having a not too large miltary, you'll soon see the benefits of republic.

Hope this helps...

 

[Paradigne]

Even if you are not going to immediately switch to republic, this is the best way to go. Republic costs more than any tech in ancient times (IIRC). Once you get it, go for currency, build markets, THEN switch to Rep and you will have a lot less problems...

 

[nullspace]

Well, of course your republic isn't running at top effeciency on its very first turn. Despotism works fine with small undeveloped towns and lots of units, but a good republic requires large, developed towns and few units. Republic might be weak for the first few turns, but you'll get to the end result faster as a republic than as a despotism.

Disband weak units, you don't need them for mp anymore. I'd say keep only veteran horsemen and swordsmen. Everything else isn't worth the maintenace.

Let your cities grow to above size 6. Without the tile penalty, a republic grows much faster than a despotism. You can irrigate grassland.

Build aqueducts and marketplaces. Libraries and courthouses if you need them. Marketplaces and libraries help a republic much more than a despotism or monarchy, since republic brings in the most base trade.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

i always make a rough calculation what to expect from republic as follows:

count my number of citizens. Assuming the all work a tile that produces commerce (roads everywhere), they will all produce an extra commerce.
estimate how much of this you will lose to corruption. substract it from the commerce gain.

calculate the unit support cost you will get in republic (after maybe disbanding a few guys)

calculate the amount of units that are serving MP. Every one of them will need to be replaced by gold from lux slider. This is a very rough number because the slider goes for all cities, but if one city is much larger, it might get a specialist. Also while this is an estimation that is likely to be worse in practice than this estimation, the corruption is lower in republic and i leave that out of the picture.

When the total of this picture is even or in the advantage of republic, i swich. This is almost always the case by 500 BC (or 1000BC for that matter)

 

[El Loco]

i road everything then get a couple of marketplaces running and then go for republic, my fav. goverment.

 

[NeMeSiS_BE]

Sorry to disappoint you but there is no worker speed bonus in Republic ( your confused with democracy I think).

Always thought there was a worker penalty in despotism. Workers worked 100% in republic and 150 in Democracy.

I've always switched to republic asap in my games - but only now i saw the difference in science and gold income.

It is true that your cities grow faster - making up for this by adding lots of commerce...