Dom Pedro II
Modder For Life
I'm a bit confused by this... so do you have control over this lion? And what, after that, becomes of the rest of your civilization? It simply remains under AI control?
Ant509y said:Alright, this looks to be one of the most awesome additions I've ever seen to a Civ game.
I had two questions/suggestions, though.
1.) This whole revolution idea is well and good, however... when part of your own nation has a revolution, and becomes a new nation, is it possible to give you the option of becoming the leader of the new nation instead of continuing as the leader of the old? That would be quite wonderful.
Ant509y said:2.) Another thing. If you successfully rebel, and manage to stay free, you should add a new negative diplomacy modifier to the original nation, say a -5 or something, due to rebelling. "You rebelled against us! -5" That sort of thing.
Ant509y said:3.) Another interesting idea would be a limited way to undo a rebellion. It's similar to the idea of creating a new nation when you take an enemy capital, only its opposite. If you can retake the rebelling region's capital, in, say, 20 (or 15, 10, or whatever) turns, the whole nation reverts back to you, albeit with extra unhappiness and an added chance to rebel again. Is this one possible? (If you decided to become the new nation, and it failed, your leadership reverts to the old nation, perhaps.)
Ant509y said:Ahh... now THAT would be the greatest Civ game of all time. Wouldn't it?
Dom Pedro II said:I'm a bit confused by this... so do you have control over this lion? And what, after that, becomes of the rest of your civilization? It simply remains under AI control?
jdog5000 said:It's one of the Firaxis debug functions, but I believe your civilization is destroyed and then you get a little lion as a place holder so the game doesn't exit and you can see what happened using the world builder ...
My mod code leaves your empire intact, but the AI controls it for [int turns] and then you retake control, much more of a sensible version I think.
Dom Pedro II said:The new civs, on a terra map at least, easily caught up with the others and indeed, the second civ (after me) was one of the late-comers. And indeed, since the late-comers had that continent to themselves, the second highest ranking civ also happened to be the largest geographically.
They probably would not fair so well on maps where the initial players are distributed more evenly, but either way, they did pretty well for themselves. On the other hand, they also settled into full civs fairly early. Somewhat later on, there'd have been very very little free space for them.
Dom Pedro II said:Surely is. This could be very useful for what I have intended for the future... however, I'd rather be able to leave the human player with control of something while the AI has the helm... otherwise, I'll have to be content with creating a place-holder civilization to hand over to the human player.
Personally, for civil wars that are not separatist movements, I'd rather be able to flag some of a civilization's cities and units as hostile while others as friendly.
Essentially, I want to be able to divorce player/leader from civilization as much as possible.
Oops - sorry. Fixed my post to be slightly more clear.jdog5000 said:NOTE to avoid confusion: This is a discussion of a Firaxis created debug function, not the code used by the AIAutoPlay functions of this mod.
It sure would be a nice feature to be able to run batch games ... right now my plate is full with other things unfortunately, but maybe some day. Sorry.The Great Apple said:One of the things on my wishlist at the moment is a mod which makes the AI play against itself in a set number of games in a row, say... 100 times. This would be with the same map, but randomised starting locations. I'd use this to test how differently programmed AIs perform against each other, so that tweaks can be made in the code to make a better AI. I feel slightly relucant to ask because I think I could write it myself, but I'm away from home for the next 5 weeks, so I can't, and I think this may help other people as well, so is there any chance of this?
It's the sort of thing I'd run on a spare machine while I was doing other stuff.
jdog5000 said:If you look in the Python code for AIAutoPlay, there are traces of some effort I put in to try to have the AI handle all unit movement and let the human control everything else (tech, war, construction) ... is this sort of what you're talking about? I haven't found a good way to do it yet (my initial attempts didn't work), and it's basically on the back burner for now.
Bungholio said:screen shots?
junter said:Hello, with this mod it's possible that a city of your nations with a rebbelion can become an indipendence state ?
This was the mechanic in Medieval: Total War as well, which did a better job of reflecting the fact that gameboard units are only a tiny fraction of the real population, any number of which could suddenly arm themselves (as Iraq is now illustrating).Ant509y said:In the American Revolution, practically all of the military basically sprung up from almost nowhere, as people basically grabbed their guns and massed to fight for their freedom. Using that sort of logic, that people who support the revolution will just up and grab their weapons and go off to war, I'd say yes, definitely get some units.
One of the most frustrating mechanisms in Civ3-4 has been that expulsion from a civ leaves a unit at the nearest friendly/neutral tile, rather than as close as possible to the homeland. It's slightly more calculations, but expulsion should lead to the latter effect. This should be a "fix" separate (but integrated into) this mod...Ant509y said:Back in Civ 2, units all had home cities. With that mechanic, it would be very easy to just... make the units go to the nation where their home city is. But we don't have that in Civ 4.
I will provide a new download with all of the new code. The one thing you might have to do is, if you decide to use custom settings in your Revolution.ini file, copy those special settings over.Ant509y said:Also, in the end when all of these aspects are finished, how will you package it? As in, will we be able to dl it wholecloth, or will we have to make changes to the game code as we go to make it work, once it's done?
I've been thinking about this, and definitely think the revolutionaries should get a bunch of units and maybe a set of "core cities" - ones that are unhappy or have strong cultural influences. Some of the empire's units stationed in the revolting cities would join the revolutionaries, the others would be injured and moved out of the cities. I'd be inclined to leave them close to the revolting cities, just a couple space away perhaps. Then they could try and regroup, or be caught in retreat by the revolutionaries. How does that sound?Ant509y said:Now, as for the revolution and what sort of units they gain:
In the American Revolution, practically all of the military basically sprung up from almost nowhere, as people basically grabbed their guns and massed to fight for their freedom. Using that sort of logic, that people who support the revolution will just up and grab their weapons and go off to war, I'd say yes, definitely get some units.
However, how many? Should it be based on population, number of cities, some standard sum? Population would probably be too difficult... perhaps a certain number per city (maybe two tops) to appear in either the city square or somewhere randomly within the city radius. (depending on what's easier.)
As for the units of the former nation... it'd be immediately at war with you, so any units that stay with the former nation would exit your territory, correct? This one is more difficult than how many units appear.
Back in Civ 2, units all had home cities. With that mechanic, it would be very easy to just... make the units go to the nation where their home city is. But we don't have that in Civ 4.
On the one hand, that could be added. (though it may clutter things up some more, wouldn't it?) Or else, you could have, yes, a random percentage of units within the region go with the city. Maybe something like a 33% chance would be best.
All of your suggestions are good ideas, thanks for putting a bunch of time and thought into it! If you dig into the Rebellion code, you'll see many of these concepts are already there in some form, so I think we're on the same page. Fine tuning all these different factors will certainly take a lot of effort, getting things to the point where they're both sensible and work for gameplay ...Ant509y said:As for how it would work, it would depend on how you're planning to trigger revolutions in the first place. What factors are involved? Distance from capital? Unhappiness? Size and relative power? Influence from other cultures? Being across the sea? Lacking a connection to the capital? (no road or water connection?)
I don't know what mechanics you're going to use, so I'm uncertain what to suggest.
However, I can give a couple of suggestions. ...
When I release this much talked about next update, I'll include some notes on how to test out the features and optimally provide feedback on the different components, specifically those under development.Ant509y said:Again, I'd love to do some test-playing for some of the features... if someone could teach me how to do it. Anyway, that's enough for now. Later.
Padmewan said:This was the mechanic in Medieval: Total War as well, which did a better job of reflecting the fact that gameboard units are only a tiny fraction of the real population, any number of which could suddenly arm themselves
jdog5000 said:Some of the empire's units stationed in the revolting cities would join the revolutionaries
Dom Pedro II said:I was considering that a rebelling city should get "Rebel Militia" units or something equivalent... the number, I think, should be equal to half the city's population (or 1 in cases of cities with only 1 population). So a size 10 city will get five militia, and all cities will get at least one defender. The militia would, of course, not be as strong as regular units of the same technological era...
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Maybe you could make a unit called the rebel militia. It would be the only unit that rebels get. Maybe you could also make it so that you could give them a lot of xp when they start so you could easily specialize them into attackers or defenders.
Another idea is to make 2 kinds of rebel militia- an attacker militia and a city defender militia. The city defender could have maybe half the power of the attacker but it would have +300% city defense.
Of cource, the militia's power would be determined by what technological age they were in and they would go away after they won the civil war.