Rise of the Pasha [K-Mod]

Anyway, i still appreciate critics :p

Your TS sucks donkey nuggets :lol:....jk

Looks good on paper. Glad you pushed for the 1t Banking with this empire we have. Always good to look at stuff like that in your games.

I will take a look at things more closely later....so much going on.
 
Hi guys!

Didn't get mutilated by silverback gorillas after all! Been on planes for two days and have serious :smoke: effect from sleeping pills ... will review tomorrow.

:)
 
Nice turnset astre. :)

The Variant

I’m generally of the view that it’s the variant that’s holding us up, and specifically our need to pop a Great Spy or Great Engineer. The city best equipped to do this is Ankara, but it’ll be slow-going once we drop those ‘muddying’ Priests (something like 20 turns post-Golden Age, or 15-17 with another Golden Age now). We’d need to drop specialists in most cities to allow Ankara to get to the top of the queue, given Athens would be close on the tail of Ankara in terms of popping the next Great Person due to its passive :gp: point generation through Wonders.

‘Plan B’ could be to tech’ through to Scientific Method and use Liberalism to slingshot Communism for the Great Spy (and State Property wouldn’t be too shabby either given K-Mod’s tweaked city maintenance rules for large empires).

‘Plan C’ might be to tech’ Constitution and start building Jails for the Spy slots. I think this is still a bit ‘iffy’ in terms of securing us the required Great Person, but still possibly worth consideration.

‘Plan D’ of course would be to hope for ‘Guns and Butter’ or some other event to kick in (refer Roy’s post on Page 2), which I think we agreed would be warmly received but shouldn’t figure in our planning (‘Plan D’ is no plan at all!).

Turnset Review

Generally I think that the turnset looks pretty good in hindsight. If you’re looking for ‘constructive criticism’ then I’d question;

Watermills replacing Cottages … while I acknowledge that Watermills are good late-game improvements, like Workshops, they are ‘so so’ if you don’t possess the booster technologies and civics (in Watermills’ case; State Property, Electricity, and Replaceable Parts – none of which we have). Sparta looked to me like a good Commerce Hub, so I’d not have put Watermills on those former riverside Grassland Cottages. This is one example of the ‘hybridisation’ of several of our cities, where sites that look like good Production Hubs or secondary Great Person Farms end up with Cottages, or Commerce Hubs that didn’t work their Cottages in the early game … likewise, muddled city improvements that don’t give the city a clear role.

Along the same lines of clear city roles; a Bank in Memphis but not Corinth?

Curious queued builds; a Pikeman in Ankara (I kinda understand this one for cheap but effective city garrison duty vs. Camel Archers on border cities I'm suspecting??), a Customs House in Elephantine, and a Harbor in Alexandria?

Priests in Ankara. As noted, this city in my estimation is our best chance for popping a Great Engineer or Great Spy, and we should not be reducing our %ges of that by running Priests.

There are other tiny micro points, such as; the wrong Desert Hill being worked in Heliopolis, or Argos needing restructuring so its food haul improves, that really won’t change anything. Likewise, our resource trades could get a review – see toward the end of this post.​

From Here

I’m happy to take this next turnset if you guys don’t mind, as I’ve got a few free days on my hands.

Generally the planning should be pretty straight forward with the possible exception of (a.) our technology path and (b.) when to commence the next Golden Age – and if soon, are we happy with the civics that we have?

I’d use this last turn of the Golden Age to starve most of our :gp: producers, but mindful not to let Athens get ahead of Ankara.

I think that we should continue to gear up for war (or go further to the war-prep’ extreme), and DoW Saladin once we’ve got Cuirassiers at our disposal and have those War Elephants upgraded. Therefore lots of ‘Build Wealth’ and run the commerce slider down.

As per above, the tech’ path can go several ways, and I’d be keen to get suggestions. I presume the #1 Plan is that we slingshot Military Tradition with Liberalism and turn off the slider completely, and slow-tech’ to Rifling with Representation-specialists (depending upon when we might want to switch to Police State).

One alternative strategy to this being to aim to slingshot Communism (free Great Spy and helpful State Property). We can look at Constitution and even Democracy (Spy slot city improvements). Furthermore, Physics (free Great Scientist) and Biology (food to support more specialists) also have appeal, although we could be just dragging this game out if we continue to follow these ‘very optional’ technologies.

Some of our trade deals could do with review. We’re still needlessly trading in Fur from Zara. There is a possible Gems deal with Napoleon that could be worth taking, although we’ve admittedly got no unhappiness issues.

Opinion(s) on next Golden Age? Now? Soon? Much later?

Best Civics?
 
forgot to reply :o

saladin got paper next turn. 5k beakers+1 1turn before he get to lib.
We have 7k +1 turn to bulb communism.
It may be doable but we have to forget invasion of saladin :/

I mutch prefer to go gun, lib, mil trad and destroy sally !
after that, slow road to scientific method to get com and maybe physic.
still usure if chemistry or astro is better. maybe we can trade for astro...

golden age, i propose to not starve cities and continue produce GP point slowly but continuesly until we are in position to make a final push to get the final GP.
we can plan ankara to get the next GP in 6 turns with optimal chance to get a GE just add 1 spe to the poll (1 spy, 1 eng, 4 merchant).
turn 7 we can get a GA from from elephantine
turn 8-9 GM in istanbul

If we used GM, GS and GA to get the golden age, that leave us at the end of GA:
2 GP, 1 GS, 1GM, 1 GA, 1GE


We launch 5th GA with GM, GS, GA, GP

turn 10-11 a GA from athen

we should have at this point: 1 GP, 1 GA, 1 GE
and we still can get GS from communism or GS from physic


for micro, sorry, there is too many cities for me to micro them manually.
I did checked at the begin of the set but, well, not after that.
Feel free to review trade also :)

corrinth was building spy and i did not considered to changed it. Yes, a bank is better :)
For the rest thanks for advices for next games :)
 
Played nine-and-one-half turns ...

In a nutshell, 'Libbed' Military Tradition as discussed and DoWed Saladin. He's really on the back foot now that we've taken Mecca (good city - still lots of forest!), Damascus (fair city), and Baghdad (borderline raze proposition - I kept it, but it's rubbish).

Some bad luck with battles, while espionage was a total flop - three Spies got caught and our mission to send Mecca into revolt before the attack at 80% chance of success ... failed. Despite everything, we're still bounding away. Just got a new Great General (unassigned).

The Great Person 'pop' did not go to plan, as Ankara got a Prophet (we've now got a sufficient number of Prophets for the variant). Maybe Communism should figure in our thinking? Happy to burn a Golden Age in the next few turns - maybe wait to see what comes out of Elephantine first (?).

Graphics;
Spoiler :











All of our Muskets get the Pinch promotion ... of some possible interest if we're at all considering attacking with Muskets > Rifles. I've ignored it, and not produced any Muskets:



I felt that we weren't 100% ready, but decided to launch with a dozen Cuirrassiers upgraded from War Elephants (110 gold each! ... took a lot longer than I anticipated to get a full stack in place).






Event offering peace and diplomatic bonus - sorry, no thanks, we'd rather win the game.












Some good Wonders and the big Shrine:



Some end of turnset screenies:







Turnset notes;
Spoiler :
Opening Turn | 1390AD | 199

Changes made as indicated in #383 including trade deal re-do. Science rate dropped to 20%. Several cities switched to ‘Build Wealth’.

Turn 1 | 1400AD | 200

Napoleon fires off a Golden Age.

Gunpowder > Liberalism

One of our spies is caught in Arabia.

Edirne: Hindu Temple > Wealth.
Athens: Courthouse > Barracks and Stables
Heliopolis: War Elephant > War Elephant

Turn 2 | 1410AD | 201

Napoleon loses Lyons to the Arabs

Liberalism > Military Tradition > Replaceable Parts

Science down to 0%.

(Note: 'Replaceable Parts > Rifling' looked like the best move. It was likely that we wouldn't need to pursue Communism, as Ankara was likely to produce a Great Person for our sixth Golden Age, and we have several other cities producing tons of Great People points to generate the other Great People types, so acquiring the free Great People from being the first tribe to Communism and/or Physics seemed 'optional', and access to the Cavalry unit looked like a better choice. As it happened, Ankara did not produce the 'right' Great Person, while the war with Arabia turned out to be 'on balance' successful enough with Cuirassiers).

Thebes: Bank > Hindu Monastery
Knossos: Work Boat > Wealth
Byblos: Hindu Monastery > Barracks and Stables
Heliopolis commits to ongoing Cuirassier production

Begin upgrading War Elephants at 110 gold per unit (three per turn given our economy).

Turn 3 | 1420AD | 202

Memphis: Bank > Stables
Sparta: Bank > Grocer

Saladin pursues Printing Press.

Turn 4 | 1430AD | 203

Thebes: Hindu Monastery > Grocer

Turn 5 | 1440AD | 204

We vote for ourselves in the Apostolic Palace election.
Zara Yaqob demands Gunpowder, and is told “Not today, Sunshine” or words to that effect.
Saladin kindly constructs the Sistine Chapel in Mecca.

Memphis: Stable > Cuirassier
Bursa: Bank > Stables
Athens: Stable > Cuirassier
Giza: Hindu Temple > Wealth
Argos: Hindu Temple > Wealth

In a desire to ‘just get on with it’, we declare war on Arabia with only a portion of our War Elephants upgraded.

Turn 6 | 1450AD | 205

We are the Pope (again).

Our Spy in Medina is caught.

Corinth: Bank > Wealth

Attack Baghdad with Cuirassiers (42% loss, 69% loss, 95% loss, 77% win, 99% win, 99% win). Baghdad is taken. It’s an awful city, but may be of strategic value. Also wary of the negative diplomatic modifier from razing Arabian cities. With some reluctance we keep it.

Turn 7 | 1460AD | 206

Bursa: Stable > Cuirassier

Attack Damascus (42% loss, 43% withdraw, 45% win, 74% loss, 90% win). Insufficient number of units to take and hold the city, we opt to wait a turn for reinforcements to arrive.

Turn 8 | 1470AD | 207

Memphis: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Byblos: Stables > Cuirassier

Next attack on Damascus (75% win, 57% loss, 94% loss, 100% win).
Damascus has some good city improvements in place and fair tiles in its big fat cross.

Our northern Trireme defeats a Barbarian Galley.

Napoleon: Pigs <> Gems

Turn 9 | 1480AD | 208

Our -50% discount Spy in Mecca is caught.

Thebes: Grocer > Stables
Sparta: Grocer > Stables

Ankara has 62% chance of popping either a Great Engineer or Great Spy, but we get our third Prophet instead, which makes a sufficient number of them on hand for Golden Ages #4, #5, and #6.

Saladin pursues Replaceable Parts.

Turn 10 | 1490AD | 209

Napoleon re-takes Lyons from Arabia.

Replaceable Parts > Rifling (placeholder?)

Ankara: Stables > Cuirassier
Athens: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Akhetaten: Lighthouse > Forge

Try to initiate a city revolt in Mecca (with 80% chance of success) and our Spy gets caught and we fail in the mission.

Attack on Mecca (23% loss, 38% loss, 36% win, 36% win, 75% win, 74% loss, 5 x 100% all wins). Mecca is taken.

Take out a &#8216;Pike &#8211; Camel Archer&#8217; pair in the field at 75% and 80%, winning both.

Pop a Great General in Thebes.

Napoleon: 7 gold per turn <> Wheat

Some units still have movement points. Mycenae grows and the new citizen (coastal tile) could be used as a specialist.


Revised Roster:

vranasm (skip)
lymond << Up
.Imhotep. (skip until advised otherwise)
astre << On Deck
Cam

Variant:

Golden Ages commenced: 3 of 6
Got Napoleon to Friendly?: Yes

Heiwod Jablomi - thanks for your interest!
 

Attachments

  • Muhammad Ali AD-1490.CivBeyondSwordSave
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well good job :)

I think next GA must be lauched now and that we should go for scientific method for free GS and GS.
We don't seem to need riffling :)

The other question of: do we kill saladin or do we stop here need to be discussed :)
I think we can continue the fight be not gain more cities ^^
 
Got it. I'll take this on over the weekend
 
Okay...despite the large size of our Empire (I'm not planning micro at this point) I think things are pretty simple here. Our Empire is practically on auto-pilot.

I don't see why we can't just kick off a Golden Age now. (1GP, 1GS, 1GA). I'm assuming we will get more GAs with the specialists we are running. In fact, if we could kick off the 5th Golden Age as soon as we pop the next GP, if it is the odd one needed. I see no point in not staying in eternal Golden Age at this point with the game so close. It keeps our GPPs constantly boosted.

Might as well go Chem>Comm now. AIs are not close to Rifling and we look to have a strong Military advantage for some time.

I would keep pressing on Sal. Maybe wipe him out. I think we will still need Ethopia for Dom, so we can kill Sal, take a short rest as the Golden Age requirement becomes clear, and setup for Ethopia stompage. I expect he will break from Sal any turn now, so I will peace out with him as soon as that happens.

As we chip away at Sal, and after Ethiopia breaks, I will look to bribe Napster out of war with Sal to prevent Sal capping to Nappy.

Curs in north can head to the Northern Arabian cities next turn. Spy is setup for revolt so we should take that easy.

Looks like I can move on Medina this turn and then Lali.

Great General - We can buff a super Cur or great another medic out of an explorer for the Northern Army.

In general regarding city builds, I like most of the current builds. Keep Curs coming, but maybe change some far cites to wealth building.
 
lymond,

I think that's fine. I'm more than OK to chase Communism and Physics. I'd also take Medina and Lalibela at least. Negotiating an Arab peace deal with Napoleon to avoid a capitulation seems sensible to me.

I'm just a little wary of our :gp: management and the random number generator. As proposed, I'd personally wait for Elephantine's pop in a couple of turns to be confident about having our 'ducks lined up' as best as we can. Then again, fortune favours the brave!

I know you've said that you didn't want to micro, but ... you can stagnate Mycenae with another specialist given it is 'tapped out' in terms of good tiles unless something happens to that Plains Forest, while Giza needs more food - maybe convert one of the Mines to a Windmill, and irrigate the Grassland Workshop or stop the current Plains Workshop improvement and Farm it instead.

:espionage: could go on Napoleon rather than Saladin given that Arabia's kind of doomed and we've got no real hope of stealing Astronomy given its cost.

Best of luck!
 
Camster said:
I know you've said that you didn't want to micro

I meant "plan" micro. I micro like a biznatch in game ;) (your micro points are noted though)

Yeah, I guess we can wait until the next GP pops to run GA, since we don't have 2 of the "3rd" required GP. However, if we are setup to run a 5th GA I'd go ahead and do that asap or right at the end of the next GA to keep GPPs boosted constantly.

I would think EPs in Zara would be better if we plan to target him. I see know point of attacking Nappy. At least we might get 1 revolt out of it. If not a tech steal target, might as well go with a war target, unless we want to end our Friendship with Nappy.

I'd like to take out Sal entirely and get reasonably close to Dom. We can gift Gondar or that tundra city to the NW to Napkin if we feel we are too close at that point.
 
I think i would starve helio to get GP next turn (9 artists) and lauch GA next turn.

for saladin ok to kill him. but it could be faster for us to ask astro for peace at one time.

for tech scientific meth is the way to go :)
 
I'll look at Helio.

Not sure Astro is a concern. Comm is about the only thing we need really, although we don't need anything.
 
astro will allow to avoid chemistry, will make sci meth cheaper (if we get chemistry) and will allow to go for physic if needed.
That could be intersting to stop the war for that :)

probably not helio but elephantine :p
 
Oh yeah, Helio is HE city. Not sure what GPPs are there. Ele is close and that may be sped up.

Well, I think we have all the GSs we need and will probably, unfortunately, pop more. So I see no urgency for Physics. Comm on the other hand gives us a Gspy and SP is always nice. Otherwise, other than free GPs, we are pretty free to tech whatever we want.
 
Quick Update. I've played 7 turns. Report later as I'm watching my Atlanta Falcons.

Sal = Dead

Popped GA, GS, GM plus we got GSpy from Comm

Comm, ofc, is in

I kicked off our 4th GA several turns ago

We have enough for 5th and just need 1 more GE or GA for the 6th. Next GP in about 8 or 9 turns.

Good time to stop in prep for Zara war in 4 turns (i made peace after he broke from Sal 2turns in)

We are not even at 50% land although that will change with some border pops soon.

(cont.):

I started by making some adjustments. Got Elie to one turn for GP. I would do this with other cities as well to speed GPs. Istanbul and Athens were the next GP producers.

Rested troops one turn and then moved on Medina. Took few loses taking it. Gondor had most of Sal's troops, mainly injured Camels, so I whipped a stack around France to take it.

Our spy failed to revolt that city in the North, so we took some losses. However, I had reinforces on the way.

Lali fell easily. I don't think I lost a troop taking it. Even killed a Pike at 40% odds.

I had to take Peace Treaty with Ethiopia rather than Cease Fire. I wanted cease fire but strangely he would not except it. Otherwise, I'd probably have gone ahead and attacked Ethiopia.

Land limit is odd on this one. We still have a ways to go and I'm not sure Ethiopia covers it. We do still have some land tiles to grab with culture. We might want to settle a city in the South to grab those tiles. Other open tiles in the middle will get covered soon by border pops, like in Memphis.

We got this event...um...yay
Spoiler :


Bribed Napster off Sal to avoid cappage:

Spoiler :


Medina and Lali fall:

Spoiler :


Gondor falls. I consider razing or gifting to Nappy, but it has 2 wonders. We may still gift it anyway, but it may stabilize once we take Ethopia. We are pressed for Dom:

Spoiler :



Sal's last outpost is no more:

Spoiler :
 

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  • Muhammad Ali AD-1540.CivBeyondSwordSave
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vran, still not in mood to finish ?

next tech: rifling (3 turns)
let's finish with cav :)

elio GP ( and end of the game) is in 9-10 turn.
I will stop starving the city at 0 food to avoid loosing population.

for the rest: autopilot on :)
 
vran, still not in mood to finish ?

next tech: rifling (3 turns)
let's finish with cav :)

elio GP ( and end of the game) is in 9-10 turn.
I will stop starving the city at 0 food to avoid loosing population.

for the rest: autopilot on :)

well not really... have to get back into civ mood and it will take some time.

still going around here and watching/posting things, but not in mood to really play. even couldn't finish the game 5 of challenger today :-( got so angry quickly.

Clicking LoL and watching american TV shows is somehow better now.
 
well not really... have to get back into civ mood and it will take some time.

still going around here and watching/posting things, but not in mood to really play. even couldn't finish the game 5 of challenger today :-( got so angry quickly.

Clicking LoL and watching american TV shows is somehow better now.

Ha...what American shows do you watch? The best shows are on cable, but that may not mean anything to you.

I have a Challenge 5 game going. Probably made a mistake vassaling an AI on my continent, but I'm ready to unless mass overseas Berzerker attacks.

What is Clicking LoL?

I have brief non-civving spells, but mainly in HOF mode at the moment.

Did anyone try XCom? Never really played the original.

astre - We don't need Cavs and certainly should not wait for Rifling to attack, but it does not matter what we tech now.
 
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