RSG03 (Deity) - Random Attempt at Redemption

Wow! I can't believe we dodged that bullet.

I think we need to discuss more than religion (by the way, I usually go for items that either give cash or happiness depending on what I need the most).

What victory condition should we pursue? Do we still focus on culture/tourism victory, or should we shift to something else? Since the Doge is in the game I don't think we can count on there being enough city states alive to win a diplomatic victory. Science? Certainly possible. Culture/tourism? With Pashacuti and Rameses building wonders left and right, they are setting a very high bar to overcome. Domination? Ashy and Shaka have some powerful military, but if we build up, we can overcome their early lead.
 
I think Beorn has it right. Let's throw the new guy into the mix right away since Olodune may not be available.

Roster:
janmagn <= up
Olodune <= on deck
Stormtrooper
Consentient
Bugs
Beorn <= just played

Janmagn, before you play, let's get an overall strategy from the team now that we've returned from the edge of the grave.
 
OK, well my 2p:

1. For CV on Deity not to be a massive PITA, you need really good starting dirt, an uninterrupted good start, early NC, prompt unis, and to be positioned well enough that you can a) spread your tourism to 6 out of the 7 AI civs, and b) at least keep your religion, hopefully spread it a bit. If just one of those things start to go wrong, it becomes exponentially more difficult to achieve. And CV is the one VC where if you shoot for it and are substantially late, the AI can actually win. If you don't win DiploV at the 1st vote, you have 20 turns to get your act together for the next. If you can't get a <T270 SV, you still have around 20-30 turns before you need to worry about an AI launch (the exception being if you have Sejong or an AI that plays like a human and goes full Rationalism, etc). Domination does such damage to the map that everything else gets slowed right down. The AI has to spend its resources fighting You, The Psychopath rather than push for victory. But CV has a much finer margin of error. I think we already missed it, I'm sad to say. I know we're Napoleon, and have those Theming Bonuses, yadda yadda, but we got unlucky with bad dirt, not much room, and awful neighbours. There's no shame in changing tact, and this about the right time to do it, if we are going to. If the crew decides to soldier on for a CV, I will support the majority decision and do my best to help us achieve it, but I think its masochism at this stage. I think we can assess how likely our chances of CV are by asking the question: what are our chances of getting Sistine? Since the answer is 'close to zero', I recommend we go another path.

2. Following from 1., I think it comes down to play styles and preferences - ie. what people are most comfortable with. I'm clearly a warmonger, and my main man ST is the peacenik. Olodune is a good enough player to appear to be equally comfortable with peace or war. I'm not familiar with the rest of you, but I would hazard a guess that you're a more peaceful crew, overall. So if people don't wanna go Domination, I will support that decision too.

My thoughts on the VCs other than CV:

Domination : We'll have to wait to Artilleries, and we'll have to watch out for a chain DoW, so Diplomacy is really important even if we want to crush everyone. We might be able to take one of the softer neighbours out with XBs, but it could lead to a really bad Diplo position

Science: Usually winnable, but quite boring IMHO. When I play SV by myself it's boring, and it might be really lame playing only 10 'Next turn' turns in a row, and the action just happens to fall on someone else's turn.

Diplo: More fun than SV, but you need a really strong economy and a military good enough to repel/dissuade the runwaway.

Since we want an interactive game, I would suggest Domination, but I will go with whatever everyone else decides.

As for 2nd follower beliefs, I recommend Faith > Culture > Food > Happiness for peace, and Food > Happiness > everything else for Domination.

[EDIT: One last thing. Don't forget we have to rebuild our military. Ash WILL come knocking again, believe me.]
 
Military reconstruction is well underway (if a bit thin) and should be in much, much better shape come XBs. With a wall in Sur-Sinaï, we'll be ok.

I'm definitely the warmonger of the recurring bunch, so domination at artillery sounds great. As a backup, should we liberate all of the Doge's CSs, they'd surely be grateful and give us tons of cookie points. A CS bought-off by Austria or Venice can still be liberated, right?
 
As a backup, should we liberate all of the Doge's CSs, they'd surely be grateful and give us tons of cookie points. A CS bought-off by Austria or Venice can still be liberated, right?

Nope, they can't. This is why Maria T and NippleHead are vile scum of the worst order (no offence to surviving family members of the above). They rid you of the best resource in the game :(

Marriage and MoV purchasing are not considered a violation of the CS, therefore the people are not crying out for liberation.

It's kinda like what would happen if the Republic of Korea ever took their troops North and tried to 'free' the people in DPRK. They would be like 'in what way is this a liberation?'
 
They would be like 'in what way is this a liberation?'
Well, I wish we could ask them after the fact, but we're not there just yet.

Anyways, no liberation, so Venice goes early. We might need to do off with both Ram and Pacha - good wonders to be found there, too. Seems like the most worthwhile route in the first place.
 
Well, I wish we could ask them after the fact, but we're not there just yet.

Anyways, no liberation, so Venice goes early. We might need to do off with both Ram and Pacha - good wonders to be found there, too. Seems like the most worthwhile route in the first place.

I agree. Not exhausting ourselves against the warmongers, and hopefully even keeping them on side, would be a good move. Pacha, Rameses, Venice, then anti-clockwise round?
 
So war is the consensus then? I have no problem with it, we will give them hell. Though I have to wonder if Cavalry/Artillery would be enough, or will we need to push this all the way to XCOM/Stealth/Modern Armor
 
So war is the consensus then? I have no problem with it, we will give them hell. Though I have to wonder if Cavalry/Artillery would be enough, or will we need to push this all the way to XCOM/Stealth/Modern Armor

I would imagine we will need to push to at least aircraft/anti-aircraft.

I checked my hall of fame and I win by domination about 80% of the time. :hammer: I guess I'm a warmonger. :groucho:
 
If we are going domination I would suggest we rebuild our military as quickly as possible and hit Ashy while he is preoccupied with Shaka. Trebs/cannons & crossbows would control things much better than our last war.
 
I think last war was pretty brutal in large part due to having archers out and about, but not in garrison. That made them easy pickings and weakened our core bombardment. By the time I got in, 3 CBs were unsalvageable. Of course, there is the small matter of being outnumbered 4:1 and at higher tech, but hey, Deity says hello.
 
In hindsight, we should not have given Ashy open borders. We could have probably held him off diplomatically for quite a while by backing out of the trade screen (rather than refusing) each time he asked for open borders. We would have still lost some units, but one front is better than a 360 front.
 
There was a significant force on the west side of our territory after the war and I figured he'd use OB to mobilize towards Shaka. Sorry if that proves to be a mistake in the long run.
 
If it get his military all to one side of use, then it was a good move. We shouldn't ever give him OB again.

So where is our new guy?
 
if he don't show up, I can take over to keep it going. If nobody's in a hurry (I'm not), we can keep waiting
 
I say keep going
 
Roster:
janmagn
Olodune - On break
Stormtrooper <= up
Consentient <= on deck
Bugs
Beorn <= just played
 
Any other input before I start this afternoon? I will try to get universities, workshops and start cranking XBs and try to keep everyone at war with each other
 
We have a great economy going for a while, and XBs aren't in the picture just yet, so CBs for upgrades are your best deal.
 
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