Russian Answer to EU- The Eurasian Union

[Veles]

It's amusing you have such a low opinion of the Czechs and Poles.

It's not low at all, actually. But, imo, Czechia just objectively wouldn't be capable to control what the Yanks do on their soil, once they got hold there.

Believe me when I say that our alliance with the US is nothing like the one we used to have with the USSR (=dance to the Soviet tune, get rolled over by tanks when we stopped for a moment).

Don't you have old babushkas nostalic for good ole times? Guess not after 68.

Well, every single time Russia proposed something like this, it was a just a ploy to divide Europeans from Americans, or Europeans from other Europeans. If you're serious, apply for NATO membership

And who's paranoid now? Russia applied for NATO memebership in 90-ies and was refused. (Super epic feck-up on NATO's part, imo, they should have seized the opportunity.)

...In other words, individual leaders may sometimes forget, but in general European governments do care about all this stuff, it's not all just a rhetoric.

Let me just say, that I think otherwise. Sure in the normal stream of things they're all democracy and all that, but when there's opportunity for gaining a strategical advantage they forget about it very quickly. See Schroeder.

There are no US bases on our soil yet. And even if they were, they'd be just small radar installations - ironically dependent on electricity from our energy grid

I'm sure the Yanks would find a way to be self-sufficient once they're solidly there

 

[innonimatu]

Right...

US=NATO=EU... Got it.

That is very much right. There's some competition between the states in those alliances, but regarding the rest of the world they do align policies, both economically and diplomatically/militarily.

 

[innonimatu]

It's amusing you have such a low opinion of the Czechs and Poles. Believe me when I say that our alliance with the US is nothing like the one we used to have with the USSR (=dance to the Soviet tune, get rolled over by tanks when we stopped for a moment).

You haven't tried stopping yet this latest dance yet. We shall see what happens if and when you do...

The need for some kind of anti-ballistic missile defences is actually recognized by all European states, it's not an American initiative that's being shoved down our throats.

No it's not. Though no state would mind having one if the americans paid and no enemies were made in the process.

Well, every single time Russia proposed something like this, it was a just a ploy to divide Europeans from Americans, or Europeans from other Europeans. If you're serious, apply for NATO membership

As opposed to when the US proposed the creation of NATO and Churchill delivered his speech abut an "iron wall"?

Anyway, this is a typical slippery slope fallacy. You have zero evidence that the West is planning to build some kind of a comprehensive strategic anti-ballistic shield aimed at neutralizing Russia's nuclear capabilities. We have a thousand times more evidence that Iran is building a nuke, but you ignore that completely. Yeah...

For once you got something right: a thousand times zero is still zero, and that is how much evidence there is of iranian nukes right now.

Also the "missile shield" is rather absurd in the era of SLBMs, granted. But good to keep offensive options available against weaker states which do not have those. So I wouldn't say that the target was Russia, no. It's Iran and other weaker states just in case they do develop better weapons, weapons which might otherwise give the empire pause before attacking them.

Military power is the ultimate bargaining chip and "the west" (as in NATO) is more worried about keeping its present offensive capabilities than about future defense against threats which do not yet exist.

 

[amadeus]

As opposed to when the US proposed the creation of NATO and Churchill delivered his speech abut an "iron wall"?

Don't forget the remilitarization of Germany.

 

[warpus]

They do the same, it is just that instead issuing orders they do offers which Prague can not refuse. Better psychology same business.

Example of such an offer from Washington that Prague "could not" refuse?

The two scenarios are totally different, you can't get around that. It's like comparing a guy in jail to a guy in a bar.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

No, it's like comparing mafia boss who relies on baseball bats with the one who relies on bucks. The former is usually smaller and weaker.

 

[Yeekim]

No, it's like comparing mafia boss who relies on baseball bats with the one who relies on bucks. The former is usually smaller and weaker.

Since my home country is unfortunately too small to be a Truly Great Power that doesn't need to give a damn about anybody else, we prefer to be manipulated by dollars rather than by tanks.

Do you find that surprising?

 

[Kyriakos]

You know if the EU collapses it would make sense to join the United Orthodox countries...

 

[Snorrius]

Since my home country is unfortunately too small to be a Truly Great Power that doesn't need to give a damn about anybody else, we prefer to be manipulated by dollars rather than by tanks.

Do you find that surprising?

But people who deal with usurer usually get screwed. And SU did not manupalate only with tanks. It created industry, healthcare and educational network, was spreading common ideology. And imo Baltics have lost by joining EU in long run.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Since my home country is unfortunately too small to be a Truly Great Power that doesn't need to give a damn about anybody else, we prefer to be manipulated by dollars rather than by tanks.

Do you find that surprising?

Your country is a small mafioso itself since before any of two bosses came, sorry.

 

[warpus]

No, it's like comparing mafia boss who relies on baseball bats with the one who relies on bucks. The former is usually smaller and weaker.

A proper comparison would be somebody with a gun to your head, telling you to join his gang "or else"

and a guy with money flashing it around you, convincing you to join.. but not forcing

HUGE difference

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

I knew you would advocate mafia

 

[Yeekim]

But people who deal with usurer usually get screwed.

Even supposing the "usurer" comparison is true, which I doubt, it would still be better of two poor options.

And SU did not manipulate only with tanks. It created industry, healthcare and educational network, was spreading common ideology.

I never said it manipulated only with tanks. Still, let's not derail this thread too far.

And imo Baltics have lost by joining EU in long run.

And what is this opinion based on, if I might ask? This thread has offered ample proof that if a country around Eastern Europe is not in EU, it is automatically considered a Russian backyard. I don't see Belarus or Transnistria coming ahead due to their status as such "in the long run".

Your country is a small mafioso itself since before any of two bosses came, sorry.

You mean pre-1000 AD or so?

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

You mean pre-1000 AD or so?

Why, it's modern times we're talking about, right?

1920-1939 when there were mass repressions (also against communists) and nazi came to power in Estonia.

 

[Yeekim]

1920-1939 when there were mass repressions (also against communists) and nazi came to power in Estonia.

I would be interested in your sources on that matter.

 

[RedRalph]

That was the EU, was it?

The problem the EU members tend to have with Russia is that the Russian leadership doesn't take this citizens' rights and liberties, democracy included, stuff seriously... INSIDE Russia, as they might apply to Russians... And apparently the Russians are, mostly, fine with this?

Don't be so ridiculously naive. They couldn't care less.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

I would be interested in your sources on that matter.

These are actual historical facts that you do not know or pretend that way. Refresh your memory, reread about history of your country and then try to tell me in the face that it was somehow different.

 

[Yeekim]

These are actual historical facts that you do not know or pretend that way. Refresh your memory, reread about history of your country and then try to tell me in the face that it was somehow different.

Sure. I am just asking for good sources, untainted by western imperialists and fascists, so that I can refresh my memory, reread about history of my country and learn actual historical facts.

Pretty please.

 

[warpus]

I knew you would advocate mafia

I'm pretty sure the mafia use violence or a threat of violence to influence people