Sevomod: Feedback

[richieelias]

Just a couple more suggestions. I think he's right that Battleships and destroyers should come around at the same time. Also subs should be able to take out unescorted battleships, battleships should cost even more, all bombers and fighters should get bonuses vs sea units but especially battleships.

I think this way it would be a little more realistic. Battleships are king of the seas when they first arrive, and quickly become obsolete when WW2 era fighters are discovered.

And the main reason there were so few massive battleships battles is that they were SO expensive that it was always a huge hit to a nations morale if one was lost. Essentially, if one nation had more battleships than another, the nation with fewer battleships never let them leave port and the nation with more battleships owned the seas. The lesser nation had to rely on submarines or other fast craft to harrass shipping, but thats about all they could do. Once the more manouverable fighters were introduced, there was no longer an effective way to defend those gigantic expensive sitting ducks, so, nobody wasted money on them anymore. We only kept one to use as a special case "cheap" artillery platform (those cruise missiles are freaking expensive), and even thats gone now.

So yes, battleships are worthless today, but they still served their purpose in that 50 year period.

 

[Shigga]

I respectfully disagree on the costs of Battleships. If you make them even more expensive, nobody will use them anymore and all you get is a "dead" unit.

Agreed on the bonus of planes vs Battleship. THey effectively ended the superiority of Battleships.

 

[solanacea]

... subs should be able to take out unescorted battleships, ... all bombers and fighters should get bonuses vs sea units but especially battleships.
... Battleships are king of the seas when they first arrive, and quickly become obsolete when WW2 era fighters are discovered...

I totally agree.

 

[Arlborn]

The thing in CIV4 is, first gameplay and then History. Do what is possible to make it looks more like the real life BUT IF WILL SCREW UP THE GAME, DONT DO.

That is my humble opnion...

 

[Kunkku Kenkku]

..

2. The catapult is way overpowered. Historically, they were extremely inaccurate and I dont know any field battle where catapults played a major role. They were useful for sieges which is I think well simulated in vanilla civ. Also, ranged bombard for the catapult is so unrealistic. their range was no longer than a tank! Actually, ranged bombard only makes sense for radar artillery/MRLS type of units. Direct attack+collateral damage+chance to withdraw simulates artillery better because even the most advanced artillery is susceptible to counter-battery fire. It is too overpowering to be able to attack without risk of retaliation.
I admire the time spent to write the code for this, but it feels like a step backwards.
..

I still think that the change that Sevo made - after reducing the city "%" defenses the continued bombarding causes (small) collateral damage to the units themselves in the city - was a good change and also realistic.
Also, as it is, the catapults/cannons are susceptible to counter-fire, both normal and collateral, depending on unit. As should be.

But perhaps the catapults etc should have lower defence power than attack power, as it was the case in some earlier Civ versions. So thet left alone undefended they would be rather weak, as is realistic.

KK

 

[Shigga]

Sevo,

did you look into Blake's work over at poly? He's done some serious AI tweaking.

 

[Nannasin]

we need to get rid of einstein. He had a big hand in creating the atomic bomb. It killed hundreds of thousands of innocent japanese. There are japanese people that firmly believe (not saying they are right or wrong) we did an unspeakably evil thing by dropping those bombs. Your point of view muffin is your point of view. This is a game. We could argue all day on what is evil and what isn't, the bottom line is he was a person that had great influence on the shaping of our world as it is today. Trying to avoid his name does no one any good..if anything we should be forced to remember as often as necessary so history never repeats itself. Don't put your head in the sand and hide from the truth of things. You just get your a$$ kicked.

 

[Harrier]

Sevo,

did you look into Blake's work over at poly? He's done some serious AI tweaking.

A lot of those AI tweaks are going to be included in the official Warlords patch. So will be in the Sevo warlords version of the mod.

 

[Nannasin]

I have been playing monarch level games lately. I am not sure I like the way catapults on up work since on of the latter patches. Let me rephrase. I love the way they work, I just think it makes war too easy. I create 7 or 8 catapults or whatever my latest flavor is, protect them with another 4 or 5 units of almost any type, and send them to any town on the map I can reach. Bombard the town and units down over a turn or two and the city is easily taken over by even inferior units. Send in a couple archers or infantry to protect it and move to next town. You don't even have to take any deaths. You are unstoppable as long as you are able to defend your cities from any counterattack the AI might try.

Is this what everyone sees?

I love playing this MOD it is all I play now just that I think the artillary line is out of balance now.

 

[Nannasin]

oh ...one more thing i just thought of. When an AI comes to you and asks you to stop trading with someone, is there a way to see what trades you have going with that other person before agreeing or denying? I can't seem to do it if not.

 

[Shigga]

Just hit the F Key for Foreign Advisor, the window will show up despite diplomacy being open.

 

[Nannasin]

cool. I figured there must be a way.

 

[Bursk]

*blah*

Is this what everyone sees?

That's exactly how my games are going. I'll build 8-10 cats then go around taking any enemy city I want.

I think I'm going to start forcing myself to use cats the old way. Maybe it wouldn't be so unbalanced if the AI turned up at one of my cities with 8-10 cats, but that's never happened.

On a different subject, I was wondering if anyone thinks Cop's Observatory is unbalanced? I'm not sure myself, but +100% Science (only in one city, obviously) seems huge, especially considering that the Civ who builds it is likely to be ahead in Tech anyway. Giving this Civ an extra 100% Sci (prob in their Super Science City) will make them even harder to catch.

Thoughts?

 

[Wipperwill]

Sevo, how about including Blakes AI mod in your vanilla version? Its at apoly if you want to look it up.

 

[Arlborn]

Sevo, how about including Blakes AI mod in your vanilla version? Its at apoly if you want to look it up.

Was going to say the same! They even added in the official warlords patch! Looks good!

 

[Nannasin]

F doesn't seem to work ..is it maybe shift F or something like that?

 

[solanacea]

...
Also, as it is, the catapults/cannons are susceptible to counter-fire, both normal and collateral, depending on unit. As should be.
KK

When you attack with any unit, the enemy defends itself and there is a chance that you may lose. When you use ranged bombard you absolutely cannot lose. That is what I meant by "without risk of retaliation".

Giving catapults 5 strength (same as axeman) plus ability to lower city defenses plus ranged bombard ability plus collateral damage makes it totally unnecessary to built any other type of unit in the late ancient era. Forget about realism, this ruins the gameplay.

 

[Snerk]

I think the solution could be simply to lower the strength of all siege units...

 

[Arlborn]

I like the retaliation idea..Each time a siege unit uses bombardment it has 10% of chance of get retaliation and if it gets retaliation, it has 50% of change of lose 50% of its health and 50% of chance of just get destroyed..

Something like that would be nice yes...But reduce the bombardment power would also do...Althogh the AI uses a lot of bombardment on me in my games! Last game i went with my troops to try to get a Holy City of Ukranian and what a big surprise I got when I saw inside a city a stack of about 15 trebuchets! And he didnt suicide any of them! Only used distance bombardment! I had to send a 2nd stack of units there or I was doomed! That is why I prefer the retaliation idea above put less power to them..

The thing that piss me off is the AI in UN chooseing stupid initial game civics -.- You Really should forbid them to vote the inital civics in the UN...

 

[ecc]

where is everyone? i don't get it. as soon as the thread is moved to project & mod development, everyone disappears. or maybe i'm not looking in the right place