SGOTM 01 - Short Straw

[Danthor]

Hi all!
sorry for not coming before, I didn't know the game had started if it hadn't been for a PM I got from AlanH.

First of all:

Individual start files for all teams will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of May 12.

Does anyone what time "server local time" is?

I'm at GMT -4. I think we all should post our timezones, if only to know at what times we could expect to communicate with others.

Second, I suffer from wonderitis, namely the get-every-single-wonderitis variant , and I tend not to warmonger.

 

[Grogs]

Looks like the team has come together at the 11th hour.

I'm not sure what server time is, but I think it's in the US, so that would be somewhere between GMT -4 to -7. I'm also GMT -4 (EDT.)

We've got a few admin things we need to hash out before we get going though.

• Team Roster. I'll put it together if nobody has any heartache about it. I'd like to set it up so we alternate stronger and weaker players (based on the info from the sign up thread) so there's not a weak part of the lineup.
• Number of Turns per set. Since this is an epic game, I think we should start with 20 turns per set. After everyone has had a chance to play, we can discuss whether or not to change that. The biggest thing is that we don't want each turnset to take too much time to play. We actually went to 5 per set during a large scale war in one of my SG's.
• Team Name. I put out Team Short Straw. Does anyone have other suggestions? I'm pretty sure this is time sensitive and has to be in to Alan before the save is posted.

If anyone hasn't done so, make sure you take a look at the Reference and Maintenance threads here in the SGOTM Forums. Off the top of my head, the most important rules for SGOTM's are:

- No Reloading. Even if you misclick, reloading is a big no-no. Mistakes will inevitably be made, we'll just try to minimize them and live with the ones we make.

- No playing ahead. If you grab the save when it's someone else's turn and play a few turns, it's hard *not* to include any new information you've learned when discussing.

- No reading other teams' threads.

- 24/48 rule. When it's your turn, you've got 24 hours to post your 'I've got it' thread. Otherwise, after an attempt to contact you, we'll assume your busy with RL and move to the next player. After you've posted the 'I got it' thread, you've got 48 hours to play your turnset. This isn't an ironclad rule, so we can be flexible if somebody needs more time, but the important thing is to communicate that you need it -or- that you need to be skipped.

 

[llib_rm]

• Team Roster. I'll put it together if nobody has any heartache about it. I'd like to set it up so we alternate stronger and weaker players (based on the info from the sign up thread) so there's not a weak part of the lineup.

FYI, I will be Traveling Without Civ (TWC) starting 5/14 through 5/18. So place me towards the tail end of the line up. - Thanks

 

[Danthor]

What do I know, but what do people think about settling on the plains hill to the SW? I like plains hills for the first city because of the extra shields. 6 floodplains, at least 2 forests and 1 cow in the fat cross probably means health won't be too big of a deal. Of course I learned the hard way on the last GOTM, maybe we should look for some blue circles if there are any in the starting map.

Well, let's use an XY coordinate system for reference. Let's put the origin [0,0] in the lake between the forests and consider positive X to the right and positive Y to the top (yes, I'm an engineer ), so the settler starting square is [1,-1] and the warrior's is [3,-2].
Initially I agree on settling at the plains hill [0,-2] for the production bonus + defense bonus but let's move there first to reveal the land beyond the hills, maybe there are other resources to consider.

How about building a worker right away and researching AH? That way we work the cow and find out where the horses are for 3-man chariots. The incas can't find us that quickly, can they? After the worker maybe then build a few warriors to scout and maybe worker steal before a settler build to grab the horses or copper?

I find that rapid growth to 2 pop. and THEN building a worker is much better. Don't forget we have a locked war.


edit: It might as well be useful to spend an extra turn to explore and move to [0,-3].
I include an image for easy reference. Yellow arrows are line of sights.

 

[Danthor]

[*]Team Roster. I'll put it together if nobody has any heartache about it. I'd like to set it up so we alternate stronger and weaker players (based on the info from the sign up thread) so there's not a weak part of the lineup.
[*]Number of Turns per set. Since this is an epic game, I think we should start with 20 turns per set. After everyone has had a chance to play, we can discuss whether or not to change that. The biggest thing is that we don't want each turnset to take too much time to play. We actually went to 5 per set during a large scale war in one of my SG's.
[*]Team Name. I put out Team Short Straw. Does anyone have other suggestions? I'm pretty sure this is time sensitive and has to be in to Alan before the save is posted.

I'm agree

- No reading other teams' threads.

I've already (mistakenly) done this while I was looking for this thread this morning. I didn't read anything though, just checked the names of the team members to find myself. Should I report this?

 

[AlanH]

Team Name. I put out Team Short Straw. Does anyone have other suggestions? I'm pretty sure this is time sensitive and has to be in to Alan before the save is posted.

You are already late. Please let me know in the next hour or two. I have a lot of database and save prep. work to do that hinges on the team names.

 

[llib_rm]

Opening Move Thoughts:
Huayna's score is visible on the lower right. This leads me to believe Huayna has met us and knows where we are. Being agressive and at war means he will come after us from turn one. I suggest we fore-go the Optimal Growth Strategy http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154872 and build two warriors for defense before we build workers.

I like the goal of researching AH first. Even if horses are not present, we can get the hammers from the cow. After AH I think we should bee-line to BW for slavery. There are a lot of human hammers to take advantange of.

I prefer we settle on the SW hill across the river; (-1, -1) for all you engineers out there.

Strategic Thoughts:
A domination victory means we will have to keep the territory of the always at peace civ below 35% of total...or form a permanent alliance (PA) with them. I have never played with PA before, but I suspect they will have to be kept "Friendly" until the time a PA is possible.

 

[Grogs]

I've already (mistakenly) done this while I was looking for this thread this morning. I didn't read anything though, just checked the names of the team members to find myself. Should I report this?

You're probably fine since the game hasn't started yet and there shouldn't be any spoiler info in the threads yet. It's probably not a bad idea to PM AlanH though, just in case there's an automatic log that records who goes on which thread.

 

[Danthor]

I like the goal of researching AH first. Even if horses are not present, we can get the hammers from the cow. After AH I think we should bee-line to BW for slavery. There are a lot of human hammers to take advantange of.

I 100% agree on AH, but not so sure on BW.

Strategic Thoughts:
A domination victory means we will have to keep the territory of the always at peace civ below 35% of total...or form a permanent alliance (PA) with them. I have never played with PA before, but I suspect they will have to be kept "Friendly" until the time a PA is possible.

You don't have to be friendly all of the time from the beggining, but it is required later. Also to share a defensive pact or a war is required.

It's probably not a bad idea to PM AlanH though, just in case there's an automatic log that records who goes on which thread.

Done.

---

On the fun part, how are we going to handle city names? Keep the default ones is kinda boring. How about suggesting names and voting here?
Also, I'd like to be our official historian and keep a narrated record of our mighty civilization, if everyone's ok with that.

 

[Lmtoops]

Great...we have a team, team name, and a team leader. Alot has happened since I last checked the thread. I really did not want to be the leader...so I'm glad Grog is here.

Generally, I am unavailable during the weekends. So if my turn falls on a Friday, I will, probably, ask for my turn to be skipped.

I was nervous about leaving our city unprotected, and llib rm, made me down right scared. I think we need to build a warrior first...just in case. After that, we can build the worker or wait until pop 2 (pre build barracks?) and then build the worker.

City placement...I think there is some confusion with the coordinate system. Since the origin is the lake (0,0) the hill (which llib rm refered to) is (0,-2)...which is the same hill Danthor is refering too. Am I correct?

I think our setter will be safe moving onto that hill. We can get the lay of the land and the first player can decide were to settle. I only ask two things: not a floodplain and the cows withing the fat cross.

With the cows inside our fat cross, we can go for AH to start. I doubt horses will be in our city (too easy), but we need to know where they are.

The original warrior (Grog?) can look out to the sea (4,-3) and then head NW to the forests.

 

[Lmtoops]

On a side note, why/how is Team VQ thread up to 6 pages and 104 posts...what are they talking about.

I'm in Texas, which is -5 or -6 GMT...not sure. Are all of us in the US?

 

[RobertTheBruce]

Looks like we have a plan. I'm generally unavailable on weekends and as a noobie to succession gaming would volunteer myself for one of the later weaklink turns.

I'm in California (GMT -7 I believe).

I am fascinated by the varying levels of discussion and thought in the boards. Just as there are such crazy variations in the time it takes different people to complete the game of the month. For me, I guess this is a big exercise in slowing down and really thinking before each move.

I don't think I can contribute much more to what seems to be the general consensus. If we are building a warrior first then I usually find that the math works for prebuilding the barracks since we will be working an additional 3F+1C square after only a few turns.

 

[Grogs]

Here's the roster I put together:

Grogs................Monarch
Mushroomshirt....Prince/Monarch
Lmtoops............Monarch
Danthor............Noble/Prince
RobertTheBruce..Monarch
llib_rm...............Prince/Monarch
Ungy................Emperor
*Mahatmajon.....Monarch


* - hasn't reported in.

The levels are what was reported on the sign-up thread. If our missing players don't show up we'll just do the roster with the 6 we have.

Looks like we have a plan. I'm generally unavailable on weekends and as a noobie to succession gaming would volunteer myself for one of the later weaklink turns.

No worries there. That's one of the great things about SG's. We can discuss, maybe even argue a little, and hopefully come up with a working plan. As for the weekend thing, I'd say let's deal with it as it comes up since there's no telling when a particular turnset will fall in the week.

 

[Danthor]

I'm in Texas, which is -5 or -6 GMT...not sure. Are all of us in the US?

No, I'm in Chile(GMT -4), waaaaay south from you


Ok, so we are somewhat decided on the initial location [0,-2], researching Animal Husbandry and producing a warrior first.

Does that roster include playing order as well?

What will be the name of our first city? I propose:
Valinor, or Alvandor.

 

[Lmtoops]

Ungy sent me a private message stating he wants to play. I sent him a link to the team forum, so he should be checking in soon.

 

[mushroomshirt]

Wow! a lot has changed in 24 hours! Welcome Grogs and Danthor! I think we were worried there for a day or two (at least I was!). Sounds like Ungy is on-board also.

In any case (after a little trouble finding the thread after our new name change!) I'm glad to see that we have a name and a coordinator!

I'm in CA Like RobertTheBruce (GMT -7?) Sounds like a lot of western hemisphere people.

I'm usually available weekends or weekdays. Generally I check these boards once a day in the evening.

What will be the name of our first city? I propose:
Valinor, or Alvandor.

You must be a lord of the rings fan (at least I recognize Valinor)! I'm not particular about city names - just what we build in them!

On to strategy:

I was nervous about leaving our city unprotected, and llib rm, made me down right scared. I think we need to build a warrior first...just in case. After that, we can build the worker or wait until pop 2 (pre build barracks?) and then build the worker.

...

The original warrior (Grog?) can look out to the sea (4,-3) and then head NW to the forests.

I know we are at war with the Incas, it feels conservative to me to build a warrior first. My rule of thumb is to only work improved tiles so I instinctively want to work that cow right away. (I almost always build a worker first).

What do you all say to a worker first build but don't go exploring right away with the warrior - if we leave him in a reasonable distance from the capital then we should be safe from Quechas. We can build more warriors for exploring, worker stealing and defense after the first worker? Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

I think our setter will be safe moving onto that hill. We can get the lay of the land and the first player can decide were to settle. I only ask two things: not a floodplain and the cows withing the fat cross.

With the cows inside our fat cross, we can go for AH to start. I doubt horses will be in our city (too easy), but we need to know where they are.

I agree 100% about this (AH to start, cows in fat cross, etc.) I would add that if we are really nervous about the incas, settling on the hill for defensive value is not a bad idea.

I 100% agree on AH, but not so sure on BW.

As a warmonger I really like AH / BW tech path. With our first two cities (after the capital) hopefully we can hook up both horses and copper. With some good production cities - we can gear up for an axe / 3-man chariot rush. Those incas won't know what hit them! (as long as we are on the same continent).

I've never played the Inca, but from what I can see the Quecha aren't much of an additional threat to us. I almost never build archers (usually only if I'm hurting on copper/iron/horses) so they're basically just warriors in that situation.

I totally agree. I've played the incas once or twice - they're great on monarch against the AI since they start with those two free archers. Quechas can make mince-meat out of archers. If we avoid building archers, killing quechas is just as easy as killing warriors. (I usually only get archery to build horse archers, but in this case with Egypt's UU we can probably skip the horse archers all together) Maybe another reason not to be too defensive against the incas?

 

[Grogs]

The starting save is up for anyone who wants to take a look at it. Follow the link at the top of this thread or in the maintenance thread. It's late here, getting on 2 AM, so I'll look at it in the morning and post any additional thoughts I have then.

@Danthor - The roster I posted was meant to be the playing order. I'm editing it to move Ugny up to the 7th spot since it appears he'll be playing.

 

[Lmtoops]

The starting save is up for anyone who wants to take a look at it. Follow the link at the top of this thread or in the maintenance thread. It's late here, getting on 2 AM, so I'll look at it in the morning and post any additional thoughts I have then.

@Danthor - The roster I posted was meant to be the playing order. I'm editing it to move Ugny up to the 7th spot since it appears he'll be playing.

I think this is good compromise. I like starting with a worker, also.

 

[VirusMonster]

Hey sup, I just learned AlanH assinged me to team short straw. I think he thought some players on this team would not show up, but then they showed up on last minute? Do you guys have a free space for me or not?

I am not a bad player, you can check out my deity quechua rush article on the strategy articles forum. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169930
I can adjust to any tactic you guys like to apply, but since the goal is quickest conquest or domination victory, I would suggest using Egypt's special unit, the war chariots.

I think we should be getting horse hooked up quickly. I also strongly suggest settling on a plains/hill so we get +2 hammers production from the center city square instead of just 1. I would move the settler to the plains/hill [0,-2].

I suggest producing 2 or 3 warriors first for additional defense against the Incas and capture an enemy worker. I am pretty sure that capturing an enemy worker is the optimum tactic with the new patch. We should not build a worker, we should just get away with producing a single settler after population 3 and hooking up horse.

Which level (noble, monarch, etc.) are you comfortable playing in a solo game? Monarch / Immortal
Have you played any Civ4 GOTM games before? Yes #4-5-6 but I never submitted
Have you played any succession games or Civ3 SGOTM before? no
Do you have a group of players you want to play with? no

 

[Grogs]

I've had a chance to look over the save now and here are a few more thoughts:

- We've got a lot of hills SW of our proposed capital location, so I think mining is probably a good choice for a 2nd tech. BW is probably a good 3rd tech, especially if we're not seeing horses by then, but we should consider pottery as well.

- I probably tend to run about 75% warrior / 25% worker for my first build, so I've done a bit of both. Here's the math as I see it:

warrior: 22h. We can build the warrior in 11 turns and grow to size 2 in 11 turns, which is rather nice. We can build the warrior in 8 turns if we want, but we'll only have 16/33 food in our food bank and we'll be pulling 1 less commerce per turn. At size 2, it will take us 15 turns to build the worker, 26 total.​

worker: 90h. We can build the worker in 18 turns. Obviously, we'll still be size 1 with am empty food bank when we finish. Since it takes 1 turn to move to the cattle and 8 (I think) to pasture them, we really won't speed up the following worker much - maybe 10 turns instead of 11. This comes out to a total of 28 turns. The big difference is that at the end of 28 turns we have the cow pastured, which is a great tile that will greatly speed up our next building project.​

I have to admit that the more I look at it, the more appealing worker first looks to me. It is taking a gamble that the Inca aren't right beside us, but I agree (somebody said it) that's probably unlikely.

As for exploring, I think I'd just like to head N or NE with the warrior. That coast is so close to our capital site we can easily send a later warrior over there to check it out.

On city names - It's probably not such a hot idea to change them. One of the things we'll be doing 2 or 3 times is posting our progress on a spoiler thread for other teams to read. If we've got the default names, it's much easier for others to tell which city is which (capital, cities taken from the Inca, etc.) If you really, really want to change them (and nobody objects) try and keep the names close enough to the originals we still know what they were. I actually do that with the Incan cities because there's no way I'm writing Corihuayrachina in my log 15 times, so it gets shortened to Cory.