SGOTM 09 - Misfits

[haphazard1]

What?? Force an AI to settle on the very spot you want it too ??

That was from SGOTM6 (I think -- before I joined the team). Sort of a combination of luring and herding the poor AI settler.

[discussion of possible defenses at the barb city]

We really do not know how strong that city may be, or even if it is a single city or just part of a barbarian confederation. But I agree that attacking with phalanx is out -- just too costly. Maces might work, maces with cats could definitely work but might still be costly.

We will know more once we get around to building a zeppelin, which is still a ways off. Right now, we need to REX and claim what land we can get without fighting. Then we can start thinking about taking land from barbs, neighboring AI, etc..

The barb city could be on another landmass with AIs, where we could not hold it even if we took it. Or our troops might die, leaving the city weak enough for an AI to grab it. We just do not know enough even to plan, really.

Please make a new post? Dont edit this one because the thread will not pop up as having new posts.

Editing a post can mean most of the team misses the changes, especially if several other posts have been made during the interval. Please post turnset plans and such as new posts.

It is not like we are going to rival some of the other teams in post count, anyway.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

What?? Force an AI to settle on the very spot you want it too ??

Yeah! We noticed that they kept sending a settler and archer right past our troops even though we were at war. So, I devised a little "box canyon" trap, they walked right to the spot we wanted, we closed the back door, and it was either settle or stand there! They settled!

Please make a new post? Dont edit this one because the thread will not pop up as having new posts.

Sure...

Builds:
Copperfish:
- Library (Whip or not? And when?) I'm notriously bad with the whip.
- Phalanx
- Settler

Jericho (no whip)
- Library
- Settler (one turn)
- Warrior
- Finish Settler

Run scientists in CF as soon as possible, using the corn to grow it quickly.

Tech: (Shut down after wheel for 1 turn)
Alpha > Col > CS

Workers:
Roads ASAP using the black route then the other red one SW of JH... and then more forest preserves. Chain farms to city #3 from Bear Town?

Exploring:
Red Shirt to Greeny. Then move safely west?
Open Borders or not? I'm almost inclined to send that warrior back east to the cities.


My pick for the next city would be Cow/Wheat/Uranium (Cowheatium?)

Oh, and rename Athens... to *bah bum* Mount Mastiff!

That should cover 8 turns.

 

[Sleepless]

@KaleLambiek. Thanks for all the micro help. I've probably thought more about this game than any other civ game I've played. Actually no probably about it. I just automatically assumed the double hammers got carried over. I know better now. Regarding the wrong calculation for the hammers I think what I did was take the hammers which were in the build before take off 4 for the 1 pop whip of the plains forest and forgot about the carry over into the build which do get doubled. Forgot about the 25% bonus on mil builds as well for good measure. Not used to PS this early.

Regarding the barb galleys. I must admit I have never had them attack me with units. If there like the normal AI attacking from the ocean we won't have to much to worry about. Then again they are not normal galleys.

 

[KaleLambiek]

And we can not yet build phalanx in JH (need those roads!)

So why delay wheel? We need it in 2 turns to start roading! Do 100% - 50% for the nex two turns (or change 50% to what ever needed) to get it and start roading!

I have revised the roading plan...
Worker needs 4 more turns to Preserve/Road
Namlaim has 4 more turns left on the Watermill
Using CTRL-A you can force on the fifth turn when both these workers are free to make the road done by Obama.

Worker goes 1 SW towards the Uranium and roads that
Namlaim goes 1 west (into city) 1NW-1N to the missing tile to connect Athens/Jericho (the black road)
Obama then should go make a water mill on the open grassland river tile OR hope/wait for a regrowth and move 1 south (or one west or one northwest) and start a Preserve there.

, so settler after is the best bet.

My idea for buildque Jericho:
Library (3)
Settler (1 turn only, dump overflow there)
Warrior (1 turn, future MP)
Settler (2 more turns)

The library would take the food (while not whipping) from 3 now to 6, 11, 16 / 22
Settler offcourse produces no food for the granary. When the Watermill finishes we can produce +6 food instead of +5 without losing hammers. So the warrior takes it to 22/22 to grow to pop 8.

Alternative is to not get an MP warrior
Library (3)
Settler (4 turns, but generate more overflow)
Still Settler in 7 turns though and growth to size 8 is delayed somewhat

Size 8 will be our cap for a few turns as we dont have a new Preserve comming up. The earliest preserve we can get is from Obama 3 (current preserve) + 2 (road) + 7 (move + preserve) = 12 turns away

So after the settler, maybe send the (overflow) production towards a Zeppelin.
Build a worker 1 turn and whip for 2 pop, regrow while finishing the Zeppelin and a Phalanx...

But that is quite a bit into the future.

I would sign OB with Hammi and explore his lands.

Agree...

Or we could bring the warrior back east to check out the fog south of us.

This is what we can use the new MP warrior and/or Phalanx for.
The current warrior is 11 turns away to fully explore that fog. The new warrior from Jericho is 9 turns (assuming 1 road sw of Jericho)
Phalanx is 11 turns too

Offcourse the current warrior starts his 11 turns NOW, where the new one is 5 turns away and the phalanx is 4 or so turns away.

Sending the current warrior to the fog will not show much more information before the settler is done in my scenario (7 turns from now).
Its worse if we speed up the settler, 6 or 5 turns from now... We will have to deside on a settling spot of this settler before knowing exactly what is down there...

*darn* I should have explored that area with the scout instead of heading south! *darn*

Possible solution??
Take the warrior from Copperfish, it has a happy cap of 5 now 6 soon... so... we are free to take this warrior NOW already.
This will allow us to see 1 tile exactly more than we do now when we need to deside on the settler.

However we can take Copperfish' warior NOW and start heading towards the proposed sites. I.e. the tundra hill NW of the Uranium might be a nice place to put him.

 

[KaleLambiek]

They settled!

Brutal!

Builds:
Copperfish:
- Library (Whip or not? And when?) I'm notriously bad with the whip.
- Phalanx
- Settler

Build 1 turn then whip for 2 and run 2 scientists IMMEDIATELY to get the Academy ASAP.
Phalanx > Phalanx I think? Instead of the settler?

Workers:
Roads ASAP using the black route then the other red one SW of JH... and then more forest preserves. Chain farms to city #3 from Bear Town?

Be carefull with the workers, you know CTRL-A right?? Execute planned actions (this includes actual moves and worker turns, thus finishing roads that might be in progress to be able to move on them this turn)

Chain farms have to wait untill CS, I would prefer to Chain from the west though if that time comes.

Red Shirt to Greeny. Then move safely west?
Open Borders or not? I'm almost inclined to send that warrior back east to the cities.

I am thinking Greeny: Joao, but may be wrong...
Red shirt, scout Greeny? (need to get OBs)

Oh, and rename Athens... to *bah bum* Mount Mastiff!

What mount? Dont see a mountain or a mount (horse) anywere ... port perhaps?? LOL

Also need to name a worker!

Just want to make sure that everyone reads back!!! Lots of crossposting going on at the moment (by me atleast)

 

[Sleepless]

I'm happy with Mastiff's builds. Actually Phalanx, Phalanx is better as Kale mentioned. OK no whipping in JH. I think it is important to get the watermills up asap there though. Looking now I can see why you need to do the one South of JH before the other 2 southern ones. They should be 4 commerce as well? 1 from river/1 from mill/2 from elec. Another thing I've got wrong. So 3 commerce it is. Unless your financial. Which were not. Perhaps I was pretending.

With settling new cities (where possible improve food then mill) our income is going to nose dive a bit so working out how quick we get to a certain tech would take a bit (lot) of working out.

Last point do we change all ep points to Ham or to the new civ we are about to meet or keep them split between the 2? I'm not keen on an early attack on Ham. Let him develop all his land for us first then reconsider.

 

[Sleepless]

Be carefull with the workers, you know CTRL-A right?? Execute planned actions (this includes actual moves and worker turns, thus finishing roads that might be in progress to be able to move on them this turn)

Not sure what this is? Do you press CTRL-A and select build road when the worker is highlighted. With the chance of moving after the road is finished because the worker has 2 movement points?

Any other ones we should look out for?

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

"Be carefull with the workers, you know CTRL-A right?? Execute planned actions (this includes actual moves and worker turns, thus finishing roads that might be in progress to be able to move on them this turn)"

Is that the same as when I hit the button the worker is doing (in this case "build a road") on the last turn of his "shift" so the road actually appears?

 

[haphazard1]

So why delay wheel? We need it in 2 turns to start roading! Do 100% - 50% for the nex two turns (or change 50% to what ever needed) to get it and start roading!

After checking the workers more closely, I agree. We will want to start the roads in 2 turns, so we need Wheel ASAP.

Worker goes 1 SW towards the Uranium and roads that
Namlaim goes 1 west (into city) 1NW-1N to the missing tile to connect Athens/Jericho (the black road)
Obama then should go make a water mill on the open grassland river tile OR hope/wait for a regrowth and move 1 south (or one west or one northwest) and start a Preserve there.

Sounds good, but I would definitely have Obama go for a water mill. Waiting for regrowth is not worth it, even with preserves the odds are too low. If it happens, great, but you can't really plan for it short term.

My idea for buildque Jericho:
Library (3)
Settler (1 turn only, dump overflow there)
Warrior (1 turn, future MP)
Settler (2 more turns)

I do not really like this. 7 turns for the settler? When we know we can have the library and the settler in 5? We need to get our third city founded. Why delay two turns to get 1 warrior? JH will be a little smaller, but can rapidly grow once the settler is done by working both corn. Copperfish can work the fish and run 2 scientist at size 3, and will not need the corn for a few turns.

Size 8 will be our cap for a few turns as we dont have a new Preserve comming up. The earliest preserve we can get is from Obama 3 (current preserve) + 2 (road) + 7 (move + preserve) = 12 turns away

So after the settler, maybe send the (overflow) production towards a Zeppelin.
Build a worker 1 turn and whip for 2 pop, regrow while finishing the Zeppelin and a Phalanx...

But that is quite a bit into the future.

Why worry about the happy cap? Build another settler! And another worker, and then another settler. Maybe a phalanx or two once the road to Copperfish is done, as escorts and to let the city grow a bit. But right now we need to REX, REX, REX!

This is what we can use the new MP warrior and/or Phalanx for.
The current warrior is 11 turns away to fully explore that fog. The new warrior from Jericho is 9 turns (assuming 1 road sw of Jericho)
Phalanx is 11 turns too

Offcourse the current warrior starts his 11 turns NOW, where the new one is 5 turns away and the phalanx is 4 or so turns away.

Sending the current warrior to the fog will not show much more information before the settler is done in my scenario (7 turns from now).
Its worse if we speed up the settler, 6 or 5 turns from now... We will have to deside on a settling spot of this settler before knowing exactly what is down there...

I do not think we should delay the settler just to get more info. What is in the fog is not really going to affect our decision on the area around the marble/uranium/northern cow area. We will have to decide whether we should split that plains area, or build the one big wheat/northern cow/uranium/wine city and just forget about the lost tiles around it.

*darn* I should have explored that area with the scout instead of heading south! *darn*

Eh, I would not worry about it. Easy to see in hindsight, but the info from the south is important as well, especially meeting the green civ. If we are really worried about the fog, then we should settle the cities we know we want (Bear Town? Clam/Fish on the southwest coast? Iceball copper) and just pump out more settlers rapidly to grab the land once it is revealed.

Really, we need to be planning to grab ALL the available land as rapidly as possible. We are going to have a couple less-than-incredible cities, and we need at least 6 strong enough to build unis quickly. So we had better plan on getting everything we can, as quickly as we can.

Possible solution??
Take the warrior from Copperfish, it has a happy cap of 5 now 6 soon... so... we are free to take this warrior NOW already.
This will allow us to see 1 tile exactly more than we do now when we need to deside on the settler.

However we can take Copperfish' warior NOW and start heading towards the proposed sites. I.e. the tundra hill NW of the Uranium might be a nice place to put him.

We can use the Copperfish warrior, yes, but why go NW of the uranium? What we need to know is further south.

Build 1 turn then whip for 2 and run 2 scientists IMMEDIATELY to get the Academy ASAP.
Phalanx > Phalanx I think? Instead of the settler?

After the 2 pop whip, CF will ony be size 2. We need to allow a turn or two to grow to size 3, then run 2 sci immediately while working the fish. JH can use both corn to build the settler faster, and regrow quickly while building a phalanx once the road link is finished.

And I agree on Phalanx/Phalanx. Copperfish will be running 2 scientists, and building a settler will not be optimal while that is happening.

Just want to make sure that everyone reads back!!! Lots of crossposting going on at the moment (by me atleast)

Yes, lots of posting and cross discussion. Make sure to check everything.

I'm happy with Mastiff's builds. Actually Phalanx, Phalanx is better as Kale mentioned. OK no whipping in JH.

I prefer the whipping plan for JH, to get the settler sooner. We need more cities as soon as we can get them.

With settling new cities (where possible improve food then mill) our income is going to nose dive a bit so working out how quick we get to a certain tech would take a bit (lot) of working out.

We need to have workers ready for the new cities, preferably accompanying the settlers. Strong food tiles improved first, but a windmill at the new cities as soon as possible. We should be able to expand without crashing our research rate very much, even if we expand rapidly.

Last point do we change all ep points to Ham or to the new civ we are about to meet or keep them split between the 2? I'm not keen on an early attack on Ham. Let him develop all his land for us first then reconsider.

Good question. I think split our EP -- Hammi is not going away any time soon, even if we have plans to absorb his territory later. Having enough EP to at least see his demos would be nice.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Now I am assuming that:
- Bear town
- Copper hill

Are set in stone...

Two cities by Hamu are ... well settled...

One city down south on those rivers will be there or one west of there. Please refer to the first attached image for a clean shot...

My first attempt starting from the Cow Marble city... Option A

In this option, I would settle WHITE first. This is because the improved/farmed wheat is in its first 8 tiles, allowing it to grow much faster than the red city. That needs to pop borders to get the cows.

Green, coastal cottage/filler city. Maybe move one west for +1 Plains and +1 grass tile, while losing 2 coast and 2 Ocean tile.The added overlap with the white city isnt that bad as the white city is likely to be food limited anyway...

The blue fish/Clam city and the Orange city together with the more or less filler but only option city inbetween are good cities I think. Non the less I tried something different on the next

Option B
Starting from the Cowheatium city.

No city viable to claim the Marble anytime soon-ish, The red and White cities though are stronger I think. Purely based upon themselves, however are these two cities also stronger than the 3 cities in option A? I dont think so...

I think the split of the Fish/Clam city is a bad one.
The clam city is 2 food short of beeing able to work all tiles.
The fish city has enough food to maybe take a hill from the clam city, but picks up an additional desert.

I think the Fish/Clams can work the tiles for nice hammers/commerce early and be a production beast later when the hills are mined. Meanwhile the food from the windmills can feed some specialists to generate a few GPs

So given this, my option would be to settle A) White first
Then get two phalanx together, get bear town started
A) Red and immediate galley to Island

I am given up and just using the exploit... as no one seems to want to answer as to use it or not.
That looks to be an island indeed, might be big enough for 2 cities actually depending on seafood found/land resources.

There are 5 hills on that island, it is pretty narrow... 4 tiles high at its peak and stretches out 4 more tiles to the east that we cannot see.
Its southern coast is pretty straigth... It looks kindof like...
XXLL
XXHH
XXLHHL
XLLLHL
XLLLX
LL

L = Land
H = Hill
X = water due west.

The barb city looks to be a 1 tile island AND a hill...

 

[haphazard1]

Not sure what this is? Do you press CTRL-A and select build road when the worker is highlighted. With the chance of moving after the road is finished because the worker has 2 movement points?

Any other ones we should look out for?

CTRL-A forces all units with queued tasks (workers building improvements, units with go-to orders) to execute their moves.

You can do the same thing by 'W'aiting all the active units, but CTRL-A gets all the queued tasks at once.

OK, I have been looking at the land and have a few proposed dots. First, the southwest coast:



The clam/fish site closest to Ham is obviously the more urgent site. Lots of food, and 5 hills to windmill -- this will be a powerful city with tons of hammers and lots of commerce, and enough food to grow rapidly, whip a couple times, and maybe run some specialists. If it was closer to us, I would go for it immediately. It should probably be #2 on our list after something in the SW plains; at latest #3 if we split the plains into two cities. (More on that below)

The desert hill river-mouth site is also very strong, but with less food. Farmed flood plains for 4, 2 freshwater lake tiles for 3 with lighthouse, plus city center gives 6 surplus food -- enough to work all 5 hills with windmills. No special resources at all (at least that we can see right now), but still a very strong city site which will have lots of hammers and commerce.

Further to the east and south, there are a couple strong sites with the pigs and seafood. But green civ is probably going to get those, unless we really REX amazingly fast.

Now for the dry plains, if we take the one mega city:



It is a good fit with Bear Town, but leaves some tiles around the marble, and between it and the fish/clam city near Hammi. Also lots of tiles to the west, but there is not much useful out there and maybe we can avoid close border penalties.

An alternative would be to split the dry zone, with a smaller (until chain irrigation and Biology) city with the marble, uranium, and northern cow, and a second city further south for the wheat and southern cow.



This does leave a "hole" where Hammi might try to push a city towards us. But that land will not be great, and as creative we should be able to maintain our borders easily.

We could even consider splitting the dry zone into three cities, since they will all be small and can afford plenty of overlap until chain irrigation and Biology are available:



The southern most city would have grassland, forest, the cow, and could share the rice with the fish/rice city as needed.

I think we really want that SW clam/fish city. With the hills it would have 18 base hammers (assuming a preserve on the plains forest), with 27 base commerce before trade routes, at size 8. And it would have plenty of food to grow that large quickly.

So we need to decide how to handle the dry plains zone, because we probably want a city (or two) in that region before we grab clam/fish.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Why is copper city set in stone? If you move one south, the marble is in the fat cross.

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

Updated set!

Builds:
Copperfish :
- Library (Whip after 1 turn)
- Phalanx
- Phalanx

Run 2 scientists IMMEDIATELY to get the Academy ASAP.

DECISION!

Jericho (no whip)
- Library
- Settler (one turn)
- Warrior
- Finish Settler

OR

- Library (1 Turn)
- Whip
- Settler

Is anyone taking into consideration that the happy cap is going to grow next turn and we'll work another tile?


Tech: Get wheel (100% then 50% or so...), shut down until libs are done.
Alpha > Col > CS

Roads ASAP using the black route then the other red one SW of JH... and then more forest preserves. Water mill S of city

Exploring:
Red Shirt to Greeny? (Get OB with Greeny and explore him)

Open Borders w/ Hammy or not? I'm almost inclined to send that warrior back east to the cities.

NOTE! Maybe Arctic Explorer heads to the new city site to MP?


My pick for the next city would be Cow/Wheat/Uranium (Cowheatium?)

Why not move CopperHill one south and have marble in the fat cross? Did I miss that discussion?

Oh, and rename Athens... to *bah bum* Mount Mastiff! Fine... LAKE MASTIFF!

 

[haphazard1]

Great minds thinking much alike, Kale!

Posted before I saw your dotmaps...interesting. Some thoughts below.

Now I am assuming that:
- Bear town
- Copper hill

Are set in stone...

Two cities by Hamu are ... well settled...

One city down south on those rivers will be there or one west of there. Please refer to the first attached image for a clean shot...

I definitely like the desert hill for that rivermouth city. With farmed FP and the two freshwater lake tiles, it can work 5 windmills. It will be a strong city, even without any resources. And it will help control that bottleneck.

Agree on Bear Town and Iceball Copper being set.

My first attempt starting from the Cow Marble city... Option A

In this option, I would settle WHITE first. This is because the improved/farmed wheat is in its first 8 tiles, allowing it to grow much faster than the red city. That needs to pop borders to get the cows.

I placed the white dot city 1E of yours, to pick up the second wine tile. Your placement leaves that second wine unclaimed, and it will be a useful 2F tile with commerce. It loses the wheat in the inner ring, but we are creative on quick speed. The borders will pop within 3/4 turns, so I do not see this as a significant issue compared to the long term gain of the wine tile.

Not sure about settling it first, as it is a little further from Hammi. But that wheat tile is likely to draw settlers, as it is the only real food out there. Only 4F without irrigation, but still the most available.

Green, coastal cottage/filler city. Maybe move one west for +1 Plains and +1 grass tile, while losing 2 coast and 2 Ocean tile.The added overlap with the white city isnt that bad as the white city is likely to be food limited anyway...

I do not really like this one -- it loses the fish permanently. I think settling on the tip for fish and rice, and run tons of specialists, is the way to go with this one. We could even give the rice to another city, further down the coast if needed. What is in the fog will affect this one, and we can wait for more info.

The blue fish/Clam city and the Orange city together with the more or less filler but only option city inbetween are good cities I think. Non the less I tried something different on the next

That filler city will actually be quite strong, with 5 windmills. I would love to get a city by the pigs (maybe there, maybe 1E or 1SE) but think we will lose that site to the green civ.

Option B
Starting from the Cowheatium city.

No city viable to claim the Marble anytime soon-ish, The red and White cities though are stronger I think. Purely based upon themselves, however are these two cities also stronger than the 3 cities in option A? I dont think so...

The marble will come within our borders quite soon, <15 turns as the capital pops borders again with culture from the Oracle. This does lose some tiles in the area, but there just isn't enough food available.

See my notes in my previous post about possibly splitting the dry plains into 2 or even 3 cities.

I think the split of the Fish/Clam city is a bad one.
The clam city is 2 food short of beeing able to work all tiles.
The fish city has enough food to maybe take a hill from the clam city, but picks up an additional desert.

I think the Fish/Clams can work the tiles for nice hammers/commerce early and be a production beast later when the hills are mined. Meanwhile the food from the windmills can feed some specialists to generate a few GPs

Fish/Clam together is definitely the way to go, and will be VERY strong. But no mines! Never, ever build a mine in this game except to get a resource hooked up. Windmills for the win!

So given this, my option would be to settle A) White first
Then get two phalanx together, get bear town started
A) Red and immediate galley to Island

I think we need to push fish/clam second, after white (or red, I am still not sure about white first). Hammi is going to be moving on the fish/clam site for sure, we must beat him to it. Maybe even take it before white and red? It is by far the stronger site, and more likely to be lost to Hammi.

I am given up and just using the exploit... as no one seems to want to answer as to use it or not.
That looks to be an island indeed, might be big enough for 2 cities actually depending on seafood found/land resources.

There are 5 hills on that island, it is pretty narrow... 4 tiles high at its peak and stretches out 4 more tiles to the east that we cannot see.
Its southern coast is pretty straigth... It looks kindof like...
XXLL
XXHH
XXLHHL
XLLLHL
XLLLX
LL

L = Land
H = Hill
X = water due west.

Hmmm. I like the island, even from what we can see of it. Green, plus some forests. If there are some hills for windmills, it will be good even without any resources. And there is probably something there, either seafood on the other side, or horses, or whatever.

I wonder if there is coastal passage further east, to more land and AIs? Or maybe the barbs will spawn a city there?

The barb city looks to be a 1 tile island AND a hill...

Hmmm. That would mean minimal production, unless it somehow has Moai? Still do not know if barbs can have national wonders. But if it is one tile and a hill, with defenses...the barbs can just keep it. At least until we have marines.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Sounds good, but I would definitely have Obama go for a water mill. Waiting for regrowth is not worth it, even with preserves the odds are too low.

The issue is though... we dont have a pop to work the tile... we will already be working the forest preserve so the water mill is only +1 hammer + 1 commerce.

Additional preserve = additional pop for +1 hammer + 2 commerce. AND chance to regrow.

I do not really like this. 7 turns for the settler?

Lib > settler anyway without whipping is 7 turns...
Lib > settler
Lib > Settler > warrior > settler
that doesnt change anything in the turn for the settler finishing.

If we think the 2 turns is worth the one pop we can 1 pop whip the library... And sure it will grow back fast enough ... probably even before CS and/or the Academy... If there are more people for 1 popping the Library... I can go that way too, but it is NOT as advantagious as we may think...

Then again starting everything 2 turns early is a big +, however we do lose one turn again in moving because we are lacking roads vs the later settler. Also we will be moving the settler into fogged up lands without a fogbuster ahead... what are the odds of it getting eaten?

This is true for both Option A white or Option B red...

Copperfish can work the fish and run 2 scientist at size 3, and will not need the corn for a few turns.

Dont like the idea of running 2 scientists at size 3.
Growing 3 => 4 working both Fish and Corn is just one turn.
If we run 2 scientists it will take 8 turns, offcourse during which Jericho can work the corn... yet... The academy a turn earlier is some 13 beakers extra... Choices choices...

Why worry about the happy cap? Build another settler! And another worker, and then another settler.

I was thinking build a worker 1 turn (make sure to produce 19 or less hammers) whip for 2 pop. Regrow building Military (Zeppelin) and indeed stop growth with a settler.

I do not think we should delay the settler just to get more info.

We do need a fogbuster though, have none near enough to be one...

We can use the Copperfish warrior, yes, but why go NW of the uranium? What we need to know is further south.

FOGBUST

If we head south even in the 7 turns it can defog 1 tile of the black, not worth the trip and unprotected settler

North of the uranium defoges most tiles concerning A-Red and B-Red, however doesnt work for A-White...

I just realized this unprotected settler thing... This is a real risk sending out a settler in this stage of a game Do we want to take that risk??

We should be able to expand without crashing our research rate very much, even if we expand rapidly.

Which is one reason I like A-Red to be there. It can sit there and build 13 GPT for the rest of the game if needed, but atleast support our expanding efforts here.
It is going to take a long time before A-Red will cost us 13GPT and a Courthouse, some farms and some other stuff will make it better still. Possibly building a not-to-be-finished-marble-enhanced wonder or two to go to 26gpt...
Plus it has like 12 commerce or something to turn into beakers/gold as well.
25gpt overall.... should support quite a bit.

Hammi is not going away any time soon, even if we have plans to absorb his territory later. Having enough EP to at least see his demos would be nice.

I think Hammi is IRRELEVANT, he will die and he will die quickly with or without EPs allocated to him.

I would send all EPs to Greeny (which I still presume to be Joao)

 

[haphazard1]

Updated set!

Builds:
Copperfish :
- Library (Whip after 1 turn)
- Phalanx
- Phalanx

Run 2 scientists IMMEDIATELY to get the Academy ASAP.

You might have to run 1 scientist while growing back to size 3, then 2 scientists.

DECISION!

Jericho (no whip)
- Library
- Settler (one turn)
- Warrior
- Finish Settler

OR

- Library (1 Turn)
- Whip
- Settler

Is anyone taking into consideration that the happy cap is going to grow next turn and we'll work another tile?

I like the whip plan (after 1 turn of hammers into the library, never whip with no hammers invested except for emergency defense). Yes, it will put us under the happy cap by a fair bit. But once the settler finishes, build either warriors or phalanx for a couple turns while working both corn (Copperfish will not need them as it will be running scientists) and JH will grow to the happy cap very fast.

Tech: Get wheel (100% then 50% or so...), shut down until libs are done.
Alpha > Col > CS

I am still a little worried about Alpha -- a lot depends on who the green civ is, and whether they have met Hammi. (Or someone we don't know.) If we can not trade for AH at least, we will have to go back and tech it before continuing all the way to CS.

Also, add Math between CoL and CS. It would be a huge stroke of luck if we could trade for it, but probably we will have to research it ourselves.

Roads ASAP using the black route then the other red one SW of JH... and then more forest preserves. Water mill S of city

Exploring:
Red Shirt to Greeny? (Get OB with Greeny and explore him)

Sounds good. Hopefully green guy will agree to OB.

Open Borders w/ Hammy or not? I'm almost inclined to send that warrior back east to the cities.

NOTE! Maybe Arctic Explorer heads to the new city site to MP?

The settler will have an escort which will become the MP. Too many bears and such roaming around to risk a settler by itself! I would prefer to sign OB and explore Hammi's lands. We need to know what he has, and if there is land beyond him.

My pick for the next city would be Cow/Wheat/Uranium (Cowheatium?)

Why not move CopperHill one south and have marble in the fat cross? Did I miss that discussion?

Iceball Copper will never have enough food to work the copper hill. So founding one south loses 1 hammer/turn in the city center plus a forest; it gains the marble compared to a tundra/ice windmill (gain 1 hammer/turn, lose 2 commerce/turn). Plus it becomes non-coastal.

So 1S would break even on hammers (although costing worker turns to mine the copper hill), lose 2 commerce/turn (marble vs windmill), lose a forest, and lose the coast. Even with that ice there, it is still coastal and should be able to build harbor, lighthouse, naval units, etc. We can put a fort on the ice tile 1E to get the ships passage.

Oh, and rename Athens... to *bah bum* Mount Mastiff! Fine... LAKE MASTIFF!

And I just got used to calling it Copperfish. Given the turnsets, it should be probably be Lake Kale. The next city could be Mastiff. I just want to call the arctic spot Iceball Copper.

 

[KaleLambiek]

Is that the same as when I hit the button the worker is doing (in this case "build a road") on the last turn of his "shift" so the road actually appears?

Yes... CTRL acts as selecting a worker and having it road to make it appear NOW.

Except CTRL-A does it for all units, where you are selecting the worker and doing it for that one worker...

 

[Mastiff_of_Ar]

I am still a little worried about Alpha -- a lot depends on who the green civ is, and whether they have met Hammi. (Or someone we don't know.) If we can not trade for AH at least, we will have to go back and tech it before continuing all the way to CS.

Also, add Math between CoL and CS. It would be a huge stroke of luck if we could trade for it, but probably we will have to research it ourselves.

I can report back on that after the first turn... Then we'll know.

And I just got used to calling it Copperfish. Given the turnsets, it should be probably be Lake Kale. The next city could be Mastiff. I just want to call the arctic spot Iceball Copper.

Heh! You snooze, you lose! I really like renaming everything!

And... Do ya'll just hit control-A on every turn?

 

[ChrisFromLux]

Hey guys, how do you want me to post here???

I was away all day, and had to catch up on ~30 posts when I came back. Having done that, hitting F5, and there were ~10 more posts


Good discussion, though


I will take another look at the dotmaps; for now, I only would like to open borders with Hammi and the green guy (Joao or the Ottomans?), and scout their lands to see what they have. And I agree with the last version of Mastiff's plan!

Oh, and I don't care about the city-names
This being Greece with pronounceable names, I would be fine with the original names as well

 

[ChrisFromLux]

I can report back on that after the first turn... Then we'll know.

Good idea ... not sure it will change a lot, but it doesn't hurt either!

And... Do ya'll just hit control-A on every turn?

I never use it ... if I know a road is about to be finished I want to use this turn, I select the worker and finish it, or I have the needing unit wait.

The method doesn't matter; what's important is that the road is done before moving