SGOTM 12 - Smurkz

[ControlFreak]

Save is here

Turnset had a change of plans because the spears started going INTO Teno. I took Teo. I got a leader. I traded everyone up through the first tier techs. Hope nobody has any complaints about that. I apologize I won't be able to respond to questions for a week and a half. Have a good time and I'll talk to you around the 26th.

Preflight - 1225BC

• Extra food in Kyoto will make us grow unhappy so I work the ivory instead of the irrigated grass. That’s two more beakers. I notice that we've already let an Aztec galley get down by Kyoto. The defense here will have to have a few more units, so I decide that we're leaving the sword here.
• Pull our dromon out of Aztec waters and fortify. Spear in FS boats SITD.
• Send a sword down to take over for the horse on wines duty. We need a couple horses in Osaka to knock off wounded troops in the grass but be able to retreat to Osaka. I'm building any more horses so I need this one. The sword can be replaced by upgrading a warrior if need be.
• FS has +3fpt with a full bin. Scientists make more beakers than coastline now that the GA is over so I switch the two coasts to scientists. We have surplus happiness here too, so I could upgrade the warriors and use them as swords if needed.
• Osaka changes entertainer to scientist and is content but -1fpt.
• Make a small change to the plan. I'm sending two swords and a dromon north to land on the horses a turn early. They should reach the forest N of town at the same time as the other, but we could disconnect horses too. OO swords are renamed HorseStealer(HS) 1 and 2 and ride RotPP.
• Greece and Arabia lack code but have construction. No twofer so I hold off.

IBT

• Roman Curaugh is coming south. Aztec galleys are sailing around our cape.

Turn 1 - 1200AD

• FS:Spear>Lib. Boards boat and SITD moves into Osaka. Spears woken into Osaka.
• KZ:Workers still mining
• OS:Spears provide content faces, specialists fired in favor of growth.
• Rightous Flamez moves to block the channel, discouraging the Aztec galley from entering our waterway.
• RotPP moves within 1 turn of unloading on the horses. There's a spear/archer pair standing guard. {pic1}
• Sword, horse swap on the wines completes.
• France wants all our gold plus 6gpt for Currency. We're getting there.

IBT

• France demands 49g. Shove off! She does.
• Aztec archer/spear pair move East, so the horses are still vacant. AC leaves Osaka area.
• Roman curaugh is pursuing RotPP.
• KZ border expands adjusting the tile assignments and hiring an entertainer.

- 1175AD

• RotPP move two of it's three tiles and sees an AC near the archer/spear pair. Landing on the horses this turn is a bit of suicide, but delaying would screw up the timing. Of the assault. I know that if I declare, the spear/archer will move to the horse to get on the road to Osaka, so the question is do I take my chances that a sword will beat an archer when standing on a hill, or do I delay two turns to let the units leave the area. I vote the latter. That will let me make two more spears for defense of the attack force.
• I upgrade one of the warriors as I need one more sword to make up the 8 for the strikeforce.
• Workers in Osaka start mining Southern irrigated grass for more shields.
• Spears are on the ivory road so bombing can't start this turn, but the war can. I make sure our units are out of their territory and declare.
• I drop science to 0 for a turn until the library builds. I need more cash for France and the Library will double science once it's built.
• Deadly flames bombs the galley for a point and moves into position to bomb the ivory road next turn.
• Righteous Flames takes position to prevent the wounded galley from travelling to the West of FS.
• RotPP fortifies where it was.

IBT

• Mongols demand HBR. They declare war when I say no.
• The Aztec horde moves lots of units towards Osaka. I see three spears come from Teno. I wonder how many more are in there.
• As expected, the archer/spear blocks our landing on the horses. No problem. I'll wait.
• An AC is sitting on the ivory road now.

- 1150AD

• Lib>Spear
• Walls>Lib.
• 2 Dromons bombard and sink the wounded Aztec galley.
• RotPP misses the curagh. I hope it doesn't sink us.
• To be safe we move out of range.
• Dromon misses the spear N of Osaka.
• Dromon takes 2 from AC on ivory road.
• War happiness lets me fire the scientist for a turn to get 6spt which will finish the spear a turn early.
• America wants a lot for Construction so no deals again.
• Science back up to 90% (same turns as 100% with less loss)
• Counting the jag, there are three attack units that can reach Osaka and we have four units in there (2 horses, 2 spears) with any luck, we can knock a few offensive units off.
• The Mongols may actually be a good next target so I'm not doing anything about their war just yet.

IBT

• A AC retreats from 2/4 spear. A Horse dies to 4/4 spear. Spear pillages tile N of Osaka.
• Three spears head north into Teno. The Archer/Spear pair runs from the horse tile, through Teno and pops out the other side.

- 1125AD

• Spear>Spear.
• Spear>Spear. Spear boards SITD.
• SITD S, misses spear covering 1HP AC with bombard, moves into OS. Awake spear from boat. SITD NW.
• RotPP drops swords on horses and misses bombing the road south of horses.
• Second bomb attempt destroys the ivory road.
• 6 swords board the three dromon. (2 are on the horses, two more lie in waiting on our mainland). {pic3}
• Aztecs have an Archer to the N of Osaka. A Jag, horse and the 1HP AC within striking distance. We have plenty of defenders for the moment.
• France will sell us Currency for 490g. Arabia Greece and America all still lack currency and code but have construction. I'm hoping that's enough for a twofer. America knows France, but Greece and Arabia may not. I buy Currency from France.
• America wants both code and currency for construction but will give some of their 25g. Currency alone is enough to buy Construction from Greece or Arabia. Both have 2g and would throw that in. I buy from Greece and we get Engineering for free.
• Looking at the map, there are several isolated Scientific civs. I will assume they probably haven't made contact with the others. I also note that Carthage is red but they are not scientific. Also note that we are at war with Korea but they are an isolated civ. I will need to make peace with them. The Mongol declaration will help me do that. Of each of the groups of civs, I want to pick one to gift up which should make it easier to buy their freebie. The groups are:
  • Korea
  • Sumeria/Germany
  • Russia/Greece
  • Persia/Babylon
• Settle peace with Korea straight up. They have nothing to offer so I gift them everything except literature. They get … Engineering.
• I want to know who Korea knows so I don't trade with the wrong civ. I need 3 more gold to make an embassy (85g). I sell writing to Carthage for 14g and get the embassy. They have 1 each of iron, incense, temple, granary {pic4}. They only know Portugese and Spanish.
• Germany is gifted up next. (Sold Code for 8g then gifted C and C.) They get Feudalism and are close to trading for Engineering. I can't afford another embassy so I take my chances tradeing with Persia. They get Mono. Try Greece next. They get Feudalism and are willing to trade as is Germany.
• Germany gives Feudalism for Engineering. Persia gives Mono for Feud and Eng.
• France buys Engineering for all 532g plus all their 7gpt. If I don't give them Feudalism, they are likely to research that next. If I give them Feudalism and Mono, they are likely to research Chivalry. I'm hoping if I give them Feud and Engineering, they will go for Invention. We are going for Theology and then Education so I want them to go the other route.
• I see no reason to keep civs behind in this game. Feudalism is going to come about on most continents before we can get there, so we will just have to deal with pikes. We want research to continue quickly and I want Republic and Monarchy out there so nobody wastes time researching it. I hope that's OK with everyone. I plan to gift Mono also a couple of turns later. That way if didn't chose to research invention, they will have a second chance to do that. India pays 6gpt. Babylon gets Engineering. Sumeria gets Feudalism. Russia gets Mono.
• Even at 100%, Theology is 29 turns away.
• We can't make spears anymore. Change build to Medi and upgrade one sword, one warrior.

IBT

• A Archer takes 1HP from HS1, but dies. A Archer kills spear in Osaka. Jag dies to spear in Osaka. A Warrior kills spear. A Spear dies to spear in Osaka.
• Many unit moves, but nothing is in jeopardy. Three more spears move into Teno. There's no way our swords are going to take this town.
• Several civs start SunTsu.

- 1100AD

• There is no way we're going take Teno. I swap 2 swords for medis in the Dromons and retask them towards Teot.

IBT

• Roman curagh promotes RotPP to 4/4.
• AC kills HS1 on their horses.
• Jag dies attacking Osaka. Other units move away from Osaka.

- 1075AD

• First Dromon bombs Teot and hits leaving 3/3. Second hits and brings back 3/4 spear! I decide to land all our units in the Grass SW of Teot.
• Two swords and new Medi board the empty boats.
• Spread slaves out to prevent inopportune landing. SITD takes 1HP off the galley with a bomb. {pic}
• RotPP moves to N of the Mountain, noticing a distant coastline in the process. Pick up remaining HorseStealer. {pic}

IBT

- 1050AD

• Forget to bomb first, but Medi kills 3/3 spear.
• Dromons go 2 for three taking 1HP the first spear and 2HP the second. Should be a 2/3 and 1/3 spear left.
• (Had to save to go to a meeting.)
• Medi kills 2/3 spear. Sword kills 1/3 spear. Sword kills 1/5 AC (Got him!) and premotes! . {pic}
• InSmurkable Fortress orders walls. It has a Harbor! Fortify the two remaining swords outside the town. We have a good contingent left over to both defend the town and prepare another assault on Teno.
• Move the Dromons into ISF and wake the transported units. We should have plenty of defenders for the time being.

IBT

• Aztecs attack ISF with spear then archer. Both die.
• French build Great Wall.

- 1025AD

• Two Dromons bomb a galley to red, third sinks it.
• Elite sword attacks the spear/warrior combo south of ISF and…LEADER!{pic}
• He makes a 3Medi army that kills the first spear covering the offensive stack of AC, horse, horse, Archer. Left with 6HP. I don't want to risk losing the army.
• E Sword kills warrior S of ISF. Covered by a healthy sword.
• Sell Monotheism around. France gives 12gpt plus all 20g.

IBT

• Aztec horse kills ISF sword and promotes to 2/5. Archer kills ISF Sword 1/4. Horse retreats from ISF sword, no damage. AC retreats from ISF Sword no damage.
• Now a mass of spears come out of Teno. We need to start building our strike force up again. The lost swords really hurt.

- 1000AD

• Bomb the spear SW of ISF. Horse from Osaka takes him out.
• Bomb the galley near Teno, hit for 1HP. 4/4 Dromon sinks him with no damage.
• Move most troops towards ISF. It would be good to get the Swords upgraded or build more Medis for the strike on Teno.

Pictures will be added when I come back. sorry I ran out of time.

 

[ControlFreak]

Pictures, in order, but not in text above.

 

[Niklas]

Sigh, of course all the spears rushed into Teno when you placed the swords up there on the horses. The point was to not have any troops up there that could threaten, hence the waiting with the loading of swords so that all the troops could head down south. Good execution, but IMO a very bad plan. Really, you shouldn't have done that, especially not without consulting the team first.

Gah, it's going to be a mess trying to take Teno now. They still build 1-turn spears or archers, a war of attrition is very unlikely. We're going to have to build up like 10 medis and simply force our way in. Ouch.

 

[CommandoBob]

Can we pillage the ivories with just our Dromons to put a stop to the ACs?

 

[zyxy]

Guess I'm up. Got it.

On the bright side, we now have an MDI army. On the not so bright side, it has to walk to Tenoch. All those spears were a tough nut to crack in any case, but I do agree with Niklas that Tenoch was the better target.

I am not quite sure what to do, and could use some help. We're facing a war of attrition vs Aztecs, and I don't see anything that can be done about it. We are suffering first stage WW it seems, but 20 turn peace is too long IMO.
Flip risk in Teo is small. Not sure about the rax in Teo, harbor or lib seems better.

We can only upgrade swords and spears in FS (need iron + rax). There are six swords on Battle Isle.
And the workers need to return to Battle Isle to build a road from Ozzy to Teo. So we'll be ferrying for a while.

We can afford 3 more units. Do we really need more dromons? I am tempted to switch FS to horse, and after that MDI at 20 spt.

I am also tempted to attack the troops outside Osaka right away.

Aztecs now have construction, so could build aqueduct.

I'll plan tomorrow morning and play on Sunday, or at the latest Monday eve. After that, I'll be away for the rest of the week. If it turns out that this is too quick, then I'll need a skip.

Can we pillage the ivories with just our Dromons to put a stop to the ACs?

I could be wrong, but think the AC's don't need ivory. You only need it to build SoZ.

 

[Niklas]

ACs don't need ivory no, only the SoZ does, as zyxy said.

I'll have to look the game over in detail to see what could/should be done. My first thought is that we need to go straight for Teno, we can't force our way through all of that. We have to lure out the spear mob somehow.

Btw, why is it that a Dromon with a valuable sword is out exploring??

 

[CommandoBob]

ACs don't need ivory no, only the SoZ does, as zyxy said.

Yeah, I see that now.


Smurkz Military

• 00 Workers
• 03 Spears
• 08 Swords
• 02 Horses
• 01 Army
• 04 Maces (3 in the Army)
• 05 Dromons
• 01 Curraghs
• Military Bookkeeping
  • 27 Allowed
  • 24 Actual
  • 00 Gold per turn

Our strongest unit is our weakest asset. Our Army.

As the Army is now, we cannot load it into a Dromon to cross the seas to invade Aztecia.
And we cannot afford to let it sit idle, either.

The Aztec forces we see breakdown like this:
1N of Teo: 1 vArcher 1/4, 1 vSpear and 1 vHorse.
2N of Teo: 1 rSpear, 1 vHorse 1/4, 1 eHorse 2/5, 1 rAC 1/4 (and a road).
3N of Teo: 2 rSpear, 3 vSpear, 1 eSpear, 1 worker.
Thirteen units; 5 attackers and 8 defenders.

And in Teo right now we have 6 units (3 vSwords, 1 eSword, 1 vMace and 1 vHorse); all except the horse defend with two; four are at full health.

So right now the story is plain to see.

On this IBT the vHorse 1N of Teo will attack Teo and perhaps die. The wounded Archer will die if it attacks, so the AI will probably move it into friendly land to heal. The Spear just fortifies.
The units 2N may move south, but only the healthy Spear is assured to move south.
At the end of the IBT we can expect to see this unit distribution:

1N of Teo: 2 vSpear, 1 vHorse 1/4.
2N of Teo: 1 vArcher 1/4, 1 vHorse 2/4, 1 eHorse 3/5, 1 rAC 2/4 and 6 Spears.
3N of Teo: probably empty.

And what can we do?

Kill the 2 vSpears north of Teo and the Horse if present.
Move the healed Mace Army (9/12) 1N of Teo.
Bombard the Aztec stack of doom (1 Dromon).
Pillage a mined grassland (1 Dromon), just to cut down on Aztec production.

If the Aztecs attack the Army, they will be attacking with wounded units, so the attackers may die, or perhaps run away.
If they don't attack, they will stay in place and heal.

The Army, with a Spear and Sword, 1N of Teo, would block any further advance by the Aztec units.
With luck, the Aztecs would stay around to deny the Army access northward. We don't care why they stay, just that they stay. Each turn we would bombard the stack and/or mined grassland. We would bring RotPP back from exploring, with the vSword, and use it to pillage the north shore's mined grasslands. It will take three turns to reach the north Aztec coastline; at least four before it could bombard the north beaches.

The Army would serve mainly as a decoy. We would attack once a turn with it, just to let the Aztecs know we have an army and they don't. We would use it to draw units out of Teno, while we build up an invasion force. On the turn before we invade, we move the Army and friends back into Teo. On the IBT, the Aztecs move into the vacated forest. On the next turn, we land our forces where we see fit. The most the Aztecs can do the next IBT to defend Teno is to move back onto the hill 2N of Teo, where they will remain that turn. We capture Teno and the Aztecs vanish.

Dromons
Return of the Pink Panther can't do much for the Aztec war for four turns and then it will be on the north side of the island. We need to keep one Dromon around Teno to bombard any Aztec galleys and send them back to Teno. That leaves three Dromons to move invasion troops. Not really enough, even with Maces. I think we need to complete the current Dromon build in Furzt Smurkz.

After the Dromon, if we fire a geek and work the Iron, we produce 20 spt in FS, or 2 turn Maces. It drops our science a bit, however; Theology in 23 instead of 21. We can compensate a litte bit by having Teo work the Ivory instead of the forest. The barracks is delayed (by a bunch) but we learn Theology in 22, not 23 turns as before.

I would like to be able to add Tenochtitlan to the land of Smurkz on the next turnset, if at all possible. But we can only build 4 Maces in that time span; with 4 Swords that might be enough to take Teno in one turn.

Fine tuning: if we pillaged the Ivories that are adjacent to mountain SE of Teno, we could land the Sword that is with (or will be with) RotPP on that mountain on the same turn we move the Army back into Teo. This would draw some units out of Teno (I am thinking spears) but they would end their turn on a non-roaded tile, while our Sword fortifies in the mountain (hides in a cave).

I see only 1 AC; need to check ControlFreak's turnlog for any mention of them. I don't recall any, but I am not sure. If he killed none, then we could be facing at most 3 ACs, with one more on Turn 5.

 

[zyxy]

Thanks for the input CB and Niklas!

Plan

Long term

Win by diplo, classic style with two rival civs at the end. Keep the science civs in the game until the Modern Age. Kill the others, preferably in the MA and early IA. Keep France and possibly Inca around as research partner as long as possible, but beware of 20K victories.

Short term

economy: I agree to work the ivory rather than the forest in Teo. I'll switch the build in Teo to lib, and the build in FS to harbor. The harbor will allow lux trades. We can trade away 4 and hopefully get a few in return, or gpt otherwise. It seems we have a coastal connection to all the civs to our west, and I would prefer to trade with the stronger ones (Inca, India, Korea, IIRC).
Whip the lib in Ozzy when it's down to one pop. Follow up with harbor.
The workers will build a road from Ozzy to Teo.
Use gold to upgrade swords to MDI in FS.

research: Along the upper path, full speed. Drag the AI along and hope they focus their own efforts on the lower path. Obsolete the GLib asap.

Aztec war: I would like to land SW of Tenoch, to cut off Aztec troops coming from the south. Landing party: around 8 units, mostly MDI (upgrades) with some swords. Use all but one dromon to bomb Tenoch. This should also bottle up the Aztec fleet (assuming they don't have any boats out). The remaining dromon ferries troops between our islands. The dromon up north (thanks for spotting that, I missed it!) can return with the sword in about 5 turns and drop him off.

Teo needs 7 MP to be flip safe, so I'll move another one in. It is probably not possible to keep it flip safe throughout the set.

The army is quite useless. It cannot leave the Japaneze island until Galleons, and by that time an MDI army is more or less obsolete. If we put it in Teo, then I don't know if the Aztecs will still move their troops this way. Best use is probably as meat grinder for the Aztec spears near Teo.

I'll play tomorrow, probably in the morning.

...
At the end of the IBT we can expect to see this unit distribution:

1N of Teo: 2 vSpear, 1 vHorse 1/4.
2N of Teo: 1 vArcher 1/4, 1 vHorse 2/4, 1 eHorse 3/5, 1 rAC 2/4 and 6 Spears.
3N of Teo: probably empty.

Good, you've put a lot of thought into this!
I think that wounded AI units usually retreat. I am not so sure that the third tile will be empty, because there's a worker that may need protection.

The Army would serve mainly as a decoy. We would attack once a turn with it, just to let the Aztecs know we have an army and they don't. We would use it to draw units out of Teno, while we build up an invasion force. On the turn before we invade, we move the Army and friends back into Teo. On the IBT, the Aztecs move into the vacated forest. On the next turn, we land our forces where we see fit. The most the Aztecs can do the next IBT to defend Teno is to move back onto the hill 2N of Teo, where they will remain that turn. We capture Teno and the Aztecs vanish.

I like the idea to use the army as a "lock", to draw Aztec troops towards Teo. Not sure if it works, but it's worth a try.

I see only 1 AC; need to check ControlFreak's turnlog for any mention of them. I don't recall any, but I am not sure. If he killed none, then we could be facing at most 3 ACs, with one more on Turn 5.

He killed one IIRC. Not sure where the others are.

 

[Niklas]

Looks good, except I wonder what you mean about using only one Dromon as ferry? Or did you mean the other way around? IMO we need at least three dromons to ferry troops over when we're ready to hit Teno. I think the token defenses for the capitol is 3 spears, and we can count on one more being built between our unload and the attack itself. 6 MDI should be able to take care of that, but we should be ready to unload a few more one turn later just to be sure.

 

[zyxy]

I would like to have some dromons to bomb Tenoch (to estimate defenses and to possibly lower them, or lower the pop). So my idea was to have all but one dromon on the tile 1S of Tenoch, bombing away. The remaining dromon ferries swords to FS, and MDI back to Teo, or better the tile 1N of it. From there, they can be picked up by the other dromons. Once they are all loaded, they can drop 6 MDI on the tile 1SW of Tenoch, and the ferry could drop 2 more MDI there.
Any backups would have to come from FS by ferry, but more than 2 MDI is not really likely anyway.

 

[CommandoBob]

Happy Smurkz Patrick Day!

 

[Niklas]

I would like to have some dromons to bomb Tenoch (to estimate defenses and to possibly lower them, or lower the pop). So my idea was to have all but one dromon on the tile 1S of Tenoch, bombing away. The remaining dromon ferries swords to FS, and MDI back to Teo, or better the tile 1N of it. From there, they can be picked up by the other dromons. Once they are all loaded, they can drop 6 MDI on the tile 1SW of Tenoch, and the ferry could drop 2 more MDI there.
Any backups would have to come from FS by ferry, but more than 2 MDI is not really likely anyway.

Yeah, this seems reasonable. However, I would like to stress that Monte will view MDIs on boats as a potential threat to Teno and start moving for home. The faster the surprise, the better. If the dromons load up their MDI in Teot, they can move NE-2N and unload on the same turn that they loaded, making the surprise move complete. May not be necessary though, considering the poor conditions of the roads in the area. I trust you to do the right thing, you're our residential warmonger after all.

 

[Methos]

Happy Smurkz Patrick Day!

I just noticed your timestamp. Looks like either you were celebrating a little longer than you should, or Smurkz Patrick Day is on the 18^th.

Either way, don't get too smurkzed!!

 

[zyxy]

Turn 0, 1000BC: switch FS to harbor, switch Teo to lib. Reassign some tiles here and there.

IT: Aztecs want to talk about peace . Many of their units turn back to Teo, that's not what we want. One Aztec horse is killed by our army [1/0]. KZ worker -> worker. FS harbor -> horse.

Turn 1, 975BC: bomb and kill a spear [2/0]. Time to make some deals:


Unfortunately, nobody else has anything to offer for our ivories (except small lump sums, but I will not risk that). sci 100%.

IT: Aztecs are all moving into Tenoch. I think I need to remove the army from Teo. Arabs start ST.

Turn 2, 950BC: somehow our deal with the Indians got cancelled and we no longer have a trade route. Fortunately the Inca help out:

And we spot a Roman training ground:

I whip a lib in Ozzy.

IT: KZ worker -> worker. FS horse -> horse. Ozzy lib -> harbor.

Turn 3, 925BC: kill an Aztec galley in port with Dromon bombardment [3/0]. RotPP spots an Aztec galley, and drops the sword off north of Tenoch, just in case.

IT: RotPP killed by Aztec galley [3/1]. Aztecs move some troops into Tenoch, and soem back down south. Koreans, Persians and Germans start ST, but the French built it:

Wave Riderz is lost at sea .

Turn 4, 900BC: our army kills two spears [5/1].

IT: Aztecs move 2 horse and 2 AC to our sword in the north, but don't attack . And they move a few spears towards our army. FS horse -> MDI.

Turn 5, 875BC: kill another spear pair with the army [7/1]. Load 6 MDI, 1 elite sword and 1 horse on our dromons.

IT: our sword up north succumbs to an Aztec horse.

Turn 6, 850BC: Two AC and 1 horse have appeared W of Tenoch, so I'll wait a turn or two for them to move south. Replace the horse in the invasion army by an MDI.

IT: even more troops leave Tenoch towards Teo. KZ worker -> dromon. FS MDI -> MDI. French start KT (and have chivalry now).

Turn 7, 825BC: invasion will wait another turn to let the Aztecs move out. Whip harbor in Ozzy.

IT: More Aztec troops move south. Ozzy harbor -> aqueduct.

Turn 8, 800BC: army kills AC and spear [9/1]. One Aztec spear could return to Tenoch, but I'll start the attack anyway. Seven MDI and 1 sword land at Tenoch.
I join a worker to Teo and whip a lib.

IT: elite sword succumbs to an archer . We kill one AC and retreat an AC and a horse at Teo [10/2]. FS MDI -> MDI. Teo lib -> aque.

Turn 9, 775BC: kill 4 spears, lose 3 MDI and there's one spear left, at 2/5 hp . Will get him next turn. Lose an MDI at Teo, and kill a spear and archer with the army. The army is nearly dead, but it locks up the southern Aztec forces [16/6].

IT: zzz.

Turn 10, 750BC: next level of WW sets in. I lose three more MDI against two spears, and a horse shows up . That's the end of it, I'm afraid. The battles were really unlucky, and we'll have to rebuilt our forces. Sink an Aztec galley in port, kill a wounded AC and horse with the army and a redlined spear with a horse [20/9]. Load up the remaining MDI and sail back to Teo.

notes:
- Well, this was ugly, and quite against the odds I think. Tenoch is currently defended by two damaged spears and a horse, and possibly more. I think we could make peace and rebuild for 20 turns. That's about how long it would take to train a new force anyway...
- I tried for lux deals every turn, but nobody will offer gpt, except Ghandi, who offers 1 gpt.

The save.

 

[Niklas]

Ouch, I was afraid of this. But I don't think all is lost, and I definitely don't want to make peace for 20 turns. Monte doesn't have much left now, and we could launch another strike at him in less than 5 turns IMO. We'd basically have to evacuate FS, but no one's going to threaten us right now.

I'll look the game over shortly in more detail. When the going gets tough...

EDIT: Roster:

• CommandoBob - On Deck!
• Niklas - Warming Up
• ControlFreak
• zyxy - Just Played
• sercer88 - UP!
• McLMan - MIA

Though, ehum, I wouldn't mind playing the next few turns myself...

 

[CommandoBob]

I just noticed your timestamp. Looks like either you were celebrating a little longer than you should, or Smurkz Patrick Day is on the 18^th.

I had the idea on the 17th on the way to celebrate my sister-in-law's birthday, but by the time we got home and such, it had moved to the 18th in some parts of the world.

I figured we'd celebrate on the 17th in order to blend in.

 

[sercer88]

...And, my, do I have a surprise waiting for me

originally posted by Niklas: sercer88 - UP!

(how do you get the "originally posted by" by the "Quote?")

I guess I'll have to re-read the 40-something posts you posted while I was gone...

... two hours later...

um, I'll post my strategy later. But for now:

1)tough luck on the Aztec war (thinking about me jumping into it is a daunting fact indeed...facing 1 turn spears)
2)a quick strike while they're down seems fine, but, where would we get enough troops to attack if they are producing a unit every turn?
3)A quick question: will other civs ever know what "horrible" things we have done to the Japanese and Aztecs? Like: if, for example, if right now India knows the Aztecs, and after we wiped the Aztecs out, would India be able to "tell" the other people they meet what we have done to Monty and his people?

 

[CommandoBob]

(how do you get the "originally posted by" by the "Quote?")

Clicking on the 'QUOTE' button will do that for you.

1)tough luck on the Aztec war (thinking about me jumping into it is a daunting fact indeed...facing 1 turn spears)

Niklas is willing to play the next 5 (?) turns, if you want to swap with him. If you do swap, don't just sit back and watch Niklas play. Go ahead and play the turns anyway, documenting as normal. Then compare with what Niklas does.

2)a quick strike while they're down seems fine, but, where would we get enough troops to attack if they are producing a unit every turn?

While Niklas and zyxy are the past masters at this, the short answer is that we have to make them and move them into position. That means coordinating our builds with the movements of our Dromons and maximizing the 7 movement points of the Dromons.

Unlike 'normal' games, here we are using something called (IIRC) Naval Differential Movement. This is a fancy way of saying that the different water tiles have different movement costs: coastal is 3MP, sea is 2MP and ocean is 1MP. Our Dromons have 7MPs, so they can move 3 coastal tiles. Like land based movement, the last 1MP can move you into the next tile.

The advantage over a normal game is that ocean movement becomes a lot faster, not being limited to just 3 tiles per turn.

And since this is a water map, we do have a lot of water movement to take into account.

3)A quick question: will other civs ever know what "horrible" things we have done to the Japanese and Aztecs? Like: if, for example, if right now India knows the Aztecs, and after we wiped the Aztecs out, would India be able to "tell" the other people they meet what we have done to Monty and his people?

Does India care that we killed/will kill the Aztecs? No.
India would be upset if we had made an agreement (MA or some gold per turn deal) with the Aztecs and then broke that deal with the Aztecs. India would tattle to as much of the world as India knows. And that is called 'trashing our reputation', which means we cannot offer gpt deals with other civs for the rest of the game. They can offer a gpt deal; any gpt deal we offer will be refused.


Where to Start

Monte doesn't have much left now, and we could launch another strike at him in less than 5 turns IMO. We'd basically have to evacuate FS, but no one's going to threaten us right now.

I haven't looked at the save, but let's assume that this is a true statement. How would you do that? That is what you need to detail in a strategy post.

And it is not easy to do, if, like me, your play style tends to be sort of loosey-goosey and not very structured.

Worthwhile, yes, it made conquering Kyoto easier. Just not not very easy.

 

[Methos]

(how do you get the "originally posted by" by the "Quote?")

As CB said, one way is to press the "Quote" button on someones post. Another way is to use the [quote=username]statement[/quote] tages.

Example:

[quote=sercer88]blah blah blah[/quote]

would get you this:

blah blah blah

Great game everyone! Keep up the excellent work!

 

[Niklas]

Welcome back sercer88!

1)tough luck on the Aztec war (thinking about me jumping into it is a daunting fact indeed...facing 1 turn spears)
2)a quick strike while they're down seems fine, but, where would we get enough troops to attack if they are producing a unit every turn?

Niklas is willing to play the next 5 (?) turns, if you want to swap with him. If you do swap, don't just sit back and watch Niklas play.

What CB said.

The taking or not of Tenochtitlan is crucial for the rest of this game. If we don't take it now, we'll be forced by WW to go for a 20 turn peace, which sets us back tremendously. I think it can definitely be done as I said, they are on their knees and we still have a decent number of units to bring in for a second strike. It may be that it fails, and then we'll be even worse off. But we should remember that we are competing against the other teams here, and losing by 20 or 25 turns doesn't matter much to me, if there is a chance of staying in the picture we should go for it.

I would like to play the next five turns simply because I a) quite frankly think I am (next to zyxy) the player on our team most capable of handling a situation like this, and b) I find it incredibly agonizing to have to sit back and watch when our destiny is determined.

Go ahead and play the turns anyway, documenting as normal. Then compare with what Niklas does.

No, CB, this is a big . You may per the SGOTM rules not play in parallel, or replay the turns afterwards, at least until enough time has passed that there is absolutely no chance to gain any spoiler information from it. You can never know just how two games diverge and what information you can glean from that. (yeah I know I did it once in the CIV SGOTM02, something I shouldn't have, but I was upset at the time )