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Thanks for your agreement to go North; it paid off!
Yes, of course I agree with your deviation for Lyons.
I'll be uploading the Game at t86 in the next few minutes.
Sun Tzu Wu
SGOTM 13 - ChokoMisfits
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Thanks for your agreement to go North; it paid off!
Yes, of course I agree with your deviation for Lyons.
I'll be uploading the Game at t86 in the next few minutes.
Sun Tzu Wu
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Turn Set Report: Subset 2 of 4 completed: t75 through t86
Summary:
We completed Polytheism. We found the Northwest Passage to Willem van Oranje. We have also located Culture from one of his Cities. He already knows Isabella and Victoria. Our Eastern exploring Work Boat was just completed in t86. With Isabella, we can trade our Clam for her Corn.
There is a Gold site about 6W of Paris with just two plots of Land, but two Clam and one Fish for food which could make for a good Settler spamming City; the Gold would boost Commerce and Happiness via the early Worker Technology Mining.
No Plantation (Calendar) required unlike the Dye on Jungle which also requires Iron Working, yuck. 
The Team has a few things to discuss, so I'm not planning to squeeze another two subsets of about 10t each in yet today. It may be best to do the 3rd subset Monday evening and the 4th subset Tuesday evening. This turn set is taking far longer than I wanted, but taking it slow in the early game may have its benefits for us in the long run.
See the Game save below for further details.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2125 BC to 1850 BC:
Autolog.txt file content:
Here's the new save file:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm13/ChokoMisfits_SG013_BC1850_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Sun Tzu Wu
Summary:
We completed Polytheism. We found the Northwest Passage to Willem van Oranje. We have also located Culture from one of his Cities. He already knows Isabella and Victoria. Our Eastern exploring Work Boat was just completed in t86. With Isabella, we can trade our Clam for her Corn.
There is a Gold site about 6W of Paris with just two plots of Land, but two Clam and one Fish for food which could make for a good Settler spamming City; the Gold would boost Commerce and Happiness via the early Worker Technology Mining.
No Plantation (Calendar) required unlike the Dye on Jungle which also requires Iron Working, yuck. The Team has a few things to discuss, so I'm not planning to squeeze another two subsets of about 10t each in yet today. It may be best to do the 3rd subset Monday evening and the 4th subset Tuesday evening. This turn set is taking far longer than I wanted, but taking it slow in the early game may have its benefits for us in the long run.
See the Game save below for further details.
Here is your Session Turn Log from 2125 BC to 1850 BC:
Spoiler :
Autolog.txt file content:
Spoiler :
Here's the new save file:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm13/ChokoMisfits_SG013_BC1850_01.CivBeyondSwordSave
Sun Tzu Wu
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The Attached Screen Shots of the End of turn 86 should be self explanatory.
Enjoy!
Sun Tzu Wu
Enjoy!
Sun Tzu Wu
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Nice work, Sun Tzu Wu! 
Willem already knows both Isabella and Victoria...hmmm. Not sure I like that much. Willem is Hindu but not the founder, so there is someone else to meet most likely, although it is possible Isabella founded both Buddhism and Hinduism. And that gold mine, presumably at his capital or maybe second city (since he is creative the borders would have popped fast)...ick. Financial Willem with an early gold mine...no wonder he has twice our score. He is going to be way out ahead in tech if we are not very careful.
The gold site 6W will be very high priority for us, as soon as we can find time/hammers for an additional settler. Happiness, doubled with forges, and enough commerce to easily pay for that city and likely a bit more. We will need it soon to keep up in the tech race, and the abundant food there will make the city strong for settlers and whipping also.
The dye site is a bit tougher, and we will need more exploration down there. I hope there is some kind of food nearby. We will want to settle it anyway for the happy resource, doubled with theaters, and some commerce. We can cottage the grassland tiles for good commerce with slow growth if nothing else is around the area.
On the score display, the Espionage icon shows up when the overall espionage ratio with that AI is positive (i.e. we have put more EP on them than they have on us). Hover on the score and the tooltip will include the total EP ratio for that AI. For some reason this info is not available from the Espionage screen.
The number 0.6 in red in the shots is not part of the EP at all, but is actually the ratio of military strength with that AI -- note the arm/clenched fist to the right. This ratio only appears if we can see their demographics from passive EP, and the color can be set in the Buffy mod based on thresholds. So our power rating is only 0.6 (which could be 0.55 to 0.649) of Victoria's, and it is red because this is likely to be low enough to risk drawing a DOW from her.
The far right number is the total cities owned by that civ -- interesting that Victoria only has 1 city still. Maybe she is building an expensive wonder, such as the Pyramids? Hopefully not the Oracle, anyway.
Overall things look good, and I think we stay on track for third city on the marble. It can borrow Paris' third clam until it can get a border pop to work its own. If Paris needs the clam, the grass forest is not a terrible tile to work for a while.
On trade, note that Isabella is willing to accept our corn in trade -- she does not have any resources to export and will not accept our clam (presumably she has at least one already). We could gift her the corn, but we need it ourselves for health most likely. I think we do nothing for the moment with resources.
Hopefully our east exploring WB will reveal things just as interesting as our western WB has found.
We also need more knowledge to the north, maybe the galley can help there?
Keep up the excellent work!
Willem already knows both Isabella and Victoria...hmmm. Not sure I like that much. Willem is Hindu but not the founder, so there is someone else to meet most likely, although it is possible Isabella founded both Buddhism and Hinduism. And that gold mine, presumably at his capital or maybe second city (since he is creative the borders would have popped fast)...ick.
Financial Willem with an early gold mine...no wonder he has twice our score. He is going to be way out ahead in tech if we are not very careful.The gold site 6W will be very high priority for us, as soon as we can find time/hammers for an additional settler. Happiness, doubled with forges, and enough commerce to easily pay for that city and likely a bit more.
We will need it soon to keep up in the tech race, and the abundant food there will make the city strong for settlers and whipping also.The dye site is a bit tougher, and we will need more exploration down there. I hope there is some kind of food nearby. We will want to settle it anyway for the happy resource, doubled with theaters, and some commerce. We can cottage the grassland tiles for good commerce with slow growth if nothing else is around the area.
On the score display, the Espionage icon shows up when the overall espionage ratio with that AI is positive (i.e. we have put more EP on them than they have on us). Hover on the score and the tooltip will include the total EP ratio for that AI. For some reason this info is not available from the Espionage screen.
The number 0.6 in red in the shots is not part of the EP at all, but is actually the ratio of military strength with that AI -- note the arm/clenched fist to the right. This ratio only appears if we can see their demographics from passive EP, and the color can be set in the Buffy mod based on thresholds. So our power rating is only 0.6 (which could be 0.55 to 0.649) of Victoria's, and it is red because this is likely to be low enough to risk drawing a DOW from her.
The far right number is the total cities owned by that civ -- interesting that Victoria only has 1 city still. Maybe she is building an expensive wonder, such as the Pyramids? Hopefully not the Oracle, anyway.
Overall things look good, and I think we stay on track for third city on the marble. It can borrow Paris' third clam until it can get a border pop to work its own. If Paris needs the clam, the grass forest is not a terrible tile to work for a while.
On trade, note that Isabella is willing to accept our corn in trade -- she does not have any resources to export and will not accept our clam (presumably she has at least one already). We could gift her the corn, but we need it ourselves for health most likely. I think we do nothing for the moment with resources.
Hopefully our east exploring WB will reveal things just as interesting as our western WB has found.
We also need more knowledge to the north, maybe the galley can help there?Keep up the excellent work!
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
STW,
Nice job! We now know 3 AI, this is good.
I would think that we need to prioritize claiming the goldfish site. That just seems too good to not send a settler out for ASAP. I hesitate to suggest this, but perhaps that's where our 3rd settler should go? If we settle on the marble before we start building the oracle, then there is no turn loss, the goldfish site is a monster city site.
Nice job! We now know 3 AI, this is good.
I would think that we need to prioritize claiming the goldfish site. That just seems too good to not send a settler out for ASAP. I hesitate to suggest this, but perhaps that's where our 3rd settler should go? If we settle on the marble before we start building the oracle, then there is no turn loss, the goldfish site is a monster city site.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Marble site vs. Gold site for third city...tough decision.
We definitely want to get the Oracle -- MC for forges (especially with the gold there) and Colossus is tremendously important. And the marble site enables us to get the Oracle earlier. With Victoria building something, and Willem teching rapidly due to his gold mine, we need to complete the Oracle early to have good odds of getting it first.
That said, the gold site is also very powerful and will provide great benefits to our civ: happiness, lots of commerce, plus being a strong site itself for producing additional units and settlers.
How can we adjust our plans to get two settlers out, while still finishing the Oracle and setting up for the Colossus? The gold site should provide enough commerce to pay for the city and more, which will speed up our overall research rate. And the extra happiness may help with our other cities as we will have an increased happy cap and can grow larger/whip more without having unhappy people.
I hate to disrupt the excellent micro work shulec and Sun Tzu Wu have already done, but SGOTM are all about being willing to change plans as new information -- and new opportunities -- become available. If I can get some time tonight I will try to run some tests and see what can be done to get another settler out quickly.
We definitely want to get the Oracle -- MC for forges (especially with the gold there) and Colossus is tremendously important. And the marble site enables us to get the Oracle earlier. With Victoria building something, and Willem teching rapidly due to his gold mine, we need to complete the Oracle early to have good odds of getting it first.
That said, the gold site is also very powerful and will provide great benefits to our civ: happiness, lots of commerce, plus being a strong site itself for producing additional units and settlers.
How can we adjust our plans to get two settlers out, while still finishing the Oracle and setting up for the Colossus? The gold site should provide enough commerce to pay for the city and more, which will speed up our overall research rate. And the extra happiness may help with our other cities as we will have an increased happy cap and can grow larger/whip more without having unhappy people.
I hate to disrupt the excellent micro work shulec and Sun Tzu Wu have already done, but SGOTM are all about being willing to change plans as new information -- and new opportunities -- become available. If I can get some time tonight I will try to run some tests and see what can be done to get another settler out quickly.
We can easily delay our whip of the granary in Orleans to go for a settler. This will hurt for two reasons. Obviously the loss of food from not having a granary in place when whipping the settler and then the regrowth. Also, we have to build something other than a settler to get our population up in Orleans, or our settler build will be quite inefficient.
Orleans is the best spot for a settler because a granary whip yields about 42H overflow. This can be put to a settler for one turn, the build garrison units or work boats to grow to a population the can efficiently build a settler (work Corn, clam, fish, GHM).
The other options is to pause the Forge build in Paris as we reach our happy cap and switch to a settler.
These plans both delay the settler until after turn 105. I don't want to touch Paris's build order because it builds the Oracle. Orleans build order is WB>Monument>Lighthouse>granary. There is not a lot of room for a settler. A settler build in Lyons as soon as it is founded is very slow too.
I think the fact that we found another clam near the marble site gives us a stronger case for going for the marble city. We are hammer starved in Paris and approaching our happy cap at the time we are building the Oracle. We need the hammer boost from the marble more than the commerce and +1 happiness from the gold. The sooner we get the forge in Paris, the sooner we get a greater benefit from the gold.
We also need a work boat to efficiently work the gold.
I did a test and it took 10 turns to build a Settler in Paris, building it before Paris got unhappy building the oracle. I built the Oracle via a three pop whip on T114 (1150 BC). Isabella was five turns from building it.
McArine
King
Nice work STW, some good choices on exploring
I agree that we need both sites, and a lot more
I think we should adjust the plan, so we build at the gold site instead.
I think that after the oracle, we will be having 3-4 sites that we want to settle. Either for resources or foothold on oppenents territory. So I see us being able to spam a lot of settler fast, as being more important than having the oracle a couple of turns earlier.
But I would like to know how many turns will it delay the oracle to choose gold site first? If it's more than 4-6 turns, I think I will lean towards marble site. Otherwise I say go for the gold site.
I agree that we need both sites, and a lot more
I think we should adjust the plan, so we build at the gold site instead.
I think that after the oracle, we will be having 3-4 sites that we want to settle. Either for resources or foothold on oppenents territory. So I see us being able to spam a lot of settler fast, as being more important than having the oracle a couple of turns earlier.
But I would like to know how many turns will it delay the oracle to choose gold site first? If it's more than 4-6 turns, I think I will lean towards marble site. Otherwise I say go for the gold site.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
From shulec's experiment, delaying the marble site (and thus the Oracle) could be risky. I think we need to settle the marble site as our third city and make sure we get the Oracle. Losing out on the free MC tech would be a huge blow to our plans. The free beakers are worth a lot more than getting the gold a bit earlier.
But we should try to find a way to get another settler out for the gold site as our fourth city. We do not want to delay the Oracle build, so it needs to come from our other city. (Marble city will be too small to produce a settler for some time.) I do not want to delay a granary build there, as we need that to boost regrowth. But if we can push hard for a settler after the granary, using overflow and then building something so the city will regrow until we can whip again...maybe another galley would be a useful possibility? We are going to need to be able to move units and workers around, as well as settlers. And a galley would make a decent 2-pop whip target for some more overflow into the settler.
We need to keep on track to get the Oracle. But settling the gold city as soon as possible after that is very important.
But we should try to find a way to get another settler out for the gold site as our fourth city. We do not want to delay the Oracle build, so it needs to come from our other city. (Marble city will be too small to produce a settler for some time.) I do not want to delay a granary build there, as we need that to boost regrowth. But if we can push hard for a settler after the granary, using overflow and then building something so the city will regrow until we can whip again...maybe another galley would be a useful possibility? We are going to need to be able to move units and workers around, as well as settlers. And a galley would make a decent 2-pop whip target for some more overflow into the settler.
We need to keep on track to get the Oracle. But settling the gold city as soon as possible after that is very important.
I also think that we don't delay the marble site (and Oracle) but should try and factor in getting a settler soon after in our 2nd city maybe for the gold. We do want to get to 6 cities pretty quick I think.
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On the score display, the Espionage icon shows up when the overall espionage ratio with that AI is positive (i.e. we have put more EP on them than they have on us). Hover on the score and the tooltip will include the total EP ratio for that AI. For some reason this info is not available from the Espionage screen.
The number 0.6 in red in the shots is not part of the EP at all, but is actually the ratio of military strength with that AI -- note the arm/clenched fist to the right. This ratio only appears if we can see their demographics from passive EP, and the color can be set in the Buffy mod based on thresholds. So our power rating is only 0.6 (which could be 0.55 to 0.649) of Victoria's, and it is red because this is likely to be low enough to risk drawing a DOW from her.
Thanks for the explanation of the above part of the score display.
Hopefully our east exploring WB will reveal things just as interesting as our western WB has found.
Yes, I'm planning to move the Galley North to the extent that it gets back to Paris on or before t91, so its ready to move the settler to Marble on t92. After that the Galley is again free for over 10t for exploration with the proviso that it move the Worker when needed.
Sun Tzu Wu
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In my opinion, Paris is not an option for building a Settler until after it completed The Oracle. t104 for The Oracle is late enough considering that Victoria may be building it soon and Willem could also given the Gold Mine in his City we can see.
I prefer a Settler from Orleans, but after it whips a Granary (which should be done ASAP to gain the growth benefits of the Granary. Orleans population will grow back quickly after the Granary is completed. It should be able to grow via Lighthouse improved Clam & Fish plus Corn and do so very quickly via Granary.
The Gold City site is probably safe from AI settlement for a long time. Willem is probably closest to the site and he still is quite far away from it and may have may other closer sites to settle, plus he probably isn't even aware of the site yet; if he was we probably would have seen his exploration unit. I'm fairly confident that site will be available for many turns to come. As long as we make the Settler for this Gold a 3rd priority under The Oracle and Lyons on Marble we should be fine.
Sun Tzu Wu
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I agree that a Galley makes a great build target for Orleans to grow and at the last possible turn, 2P whip it for overflow of around 38-44H into the Settler. If we maximize Granary overflow of 38-44H into the Settler and later Galley overflow of 38-44H into the same Settler build (76-88H overflow in; 61-73H left to go), we can also do a 1P (+ few turns building Settler) to 2P whip to complete the Settler. It may be faster to grow to 6P and whip leveraging the Granary overflow, but we definitely could use a 2nd Galley which we "almost" get for free via the Granary.
Sun Tzu Wu
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
Okay sun & shu, you have convinced me that marble gets settled now, and we build the goldfish settler out of orleans
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I started the test save at t86 which is identical to the real game with respect to our cities state (Paris and Orleans).
I modified orders for Paris so that it rarely uses the Corn Farm or the Clam Nets in Orleans' BFC, so Orleans can use them to grow fast. I also switched Orleans to a Granary build, so that it could be 2P whipped when Orleans. Orleans grew to 4P by t99. I was able to complete the Lighthouse build from overflow from the Granary whip. Started a Galley build to grow back. With 6F2C, 5F2C and 5F and Granary growth is very fast and will get to 4P by t106. Perhaps 3t each for 5P and 6P, so by t112 we should have 6P to whip a Settler, assuming we have 14H into it already. Settler would be ready for transport on t113. That is later than we all want.
The caveat is restricting Paris from using the Corn Farm and a third Clam means it doesn't have enough Hammers into The Oracle to 3P whip it in t104 though it has 6P. It has plenty of Hammers into The Oracle to 3P whip on t105 though.
What I suggest we do with Orleans is continue its Lighthouse build and grow it nearly as fast as possible. It should complete the Lighthouse around t93 and be Pop 3. If we start a Settler build on t93 it would finish by turn 108 and likely a bit sooner due to the Work Boat netting Fish in t102. When the Settler has 45H or less left, we can 1P whip it to complete it the next turn (~t104). See the t93 save which shows the setup of Orleans for this minus the Lighthouse. The Lighthouse would improve the estimate slightly.
Alternatively, we can wait until Orleans becomes Pop 4. If we start a Settler build on t99 it would finish by turn 113 and likely a significantly sooner due to the Work Boat netting Fish in t102. When the Settler has 90H or less left, we can 2P whip it to complete it the next turn (~t104 or 105t). See the t93 save which shows the setup of Orleans for this minus the Lighthouse. The Lighthouse would improve the estimate slightly.
If we restrict Paris more, I'm sure we can still 3P whip The Oracle in t105, but get Orleans to Pop 4 maybe 1t sooner. The final save shows that even restricting Paris' working plot choices we can still achieve a 3P whip of The Oracle in t105 which is only 1t worst than when Paris has priority over all shared working plots.
Summary:
The first option builds the Granary and Lighthouse. (There is the possibility of putting the Granary overflow (35H) into the Settler rather than the Lighthouse.) The Settler is ready t113.
The second option without a whip is appealing at t108. Whipping it for t104 doesn't save enough turns off perhaps to deal with -1 Whipping unhappiness for a 1 Pop whip.
The third option unwhipped matches the first option at t113 and leaves us with 4 Pop in Orleans. The third option 2P whipped at t103/104 makes the Settler available on t104/t105.
The second option at t108 or the third option at t104/t105 seem the best. Perhaps t108 will be soon enough. However, we still don't have a Granary, so maybe the first option is better even though it arrives somewhat later.
Please let me know your preferences.
My turn set will be put on hold for 24 hours to resolve how build our 4th Settler.
Sun Tzu Wu
I modified orders for Paris so that it rarely uses the Corn Farm or the Clam Nets in Orleans' BFC, so Orleans can use them to grow fast. I also switched Orleans to a Granary build, so that it could be 2P whipped when Orleans. Orleans grew to 4P by t99. I was able to complete the Lighthouse build from overflow from the Granary whip. Started a Galley build to grow back. With 6F2C, 5F2C and 5F and Granary growth is very fast and will get to 4P by t106. Perhaps 3t each for 5P and 6P, so by t112 we should have 6P to whip a Settler, assuming we have 14H into it already. Settler would be ready for transport on t113. That is later than we all want.
The caveat is restricting Paris from using the Corn Farm and a third Clam means it doesn't have enough Hammers into The Oracle to 3P whip it in t104 though it has 6P. It has plenty of Hammers into The Oracle to 3P whip on t105 though.
What I suggest we do with Orleans is continue its Lighthouse build and grow it nearly as fast as possible. It should complete the Lighthouse around t93 and be Pop 3. If we start a Settler build on t93 it would finish by turn 108 and likely a bit sooner due to the Work Boat netting Fish in t102. When the Settler has 45H or less left, we can 1P whip it to complete it the next turn (~t104). See the t93 save which shows the setup of Orleans for this minus the Lighthouse. The Lighthouse would improve the estimate slightly.
Alternatively, we can wait until Orleans becomes Pop 4. If we start a Settler build on t99 it would finish by turn 113 and likely a significantly sooner due to the Work Boat netting Fish in t102. When the Settler has 90H or less left, we can 2P whip it to complete it the next turn (~t104 or 105t). See the t93 save which shows the setup of Orleans for this minus the Lighthouse. The Lighthouse would improve the estimate slightly.
If we restrict Paris more, I'm sure we can still 3P whip The Oracle in t105, but get Orleans to Pop 4 maybe 1t sooner. The final save shows that even restricting Paris' working plot choices we can still achieve a 3P whip of The Oracle in t105 which is only 1t worst than when Paris has priority over all shared working plots.
Summary:
The first option builds the Granary and Lighthouse. (There is the possibility of putting the Granary overflow (35H) into the Settler rather than the Lighthouse.) The Settler is ready t113.
The second option without a whip is appealing at t108. Whipping it for t104 doesn't save enough turns off perhaps to deal with -1 Whipping unhappiness for a 1 Pop whip.
The third option unwhipped matches the first option at t113 and leaves us with 4 Pop in Orleans. The third option 2P whipped at t103/104 makes the Settler available on t104/t105.
The second option at t108 or the third option at t104/t105 seem the best. Perhaps t108 will be soon enough. However, we still don't have a Granary, so maybe the first option is better even though it arrives somewhat later.
Please let me know your preferences.
My turn set will be put on hold for 24 hours to resolve how build our 4th Settler.
Sun Tzu Wu
I may not have time to do any tests or look at STW's tests. I just want to say that I don't want to lose sight of the bigger picture by focusing on the immediate future. For example, when I set about to do the tests for T66 to T105, I had actually wanted to delay the granary in favor of getting a third settler out of Orleans sooner. Per STW's recommendation, I tried to work the early granary into Orleans build order. At the time I wasn't convinced that the granary was the way to go. After seeing it play out, I am more convinced that the granary before the settler should still be considered. I completely agree that we need to get cities out sooner.
I recommend that we run tests to see how quickly we can get two settlers out of Orleans.
I recommend that we run tests to see how quickly we can get two settlers out of Orleans.
haphazard1
Dancing Bear
Thanks for the tests, Sun Tzu Wu.
I like the third option of getting the settler for our fourth city (presumably the gold, unless we find something amazing to the east) earlier, around T104-105. Saving 8-9 turns on getting our gold city founded means it grows sooner, and we start working the gold sooner. That is going to be a 3H lots of commerce tile, plus providing happiness to our other cities -- every turn we delay it is going to cost us.
Note that the cost is the lost commerce and happiness -- I am not worried about losing the site to an AI unless we delay a very long time.
The second option for T108 is also appealing, and would get the granary in place to speed future growth. Shulec is right that we should be thinking in terms of multiple settlers, so getting the granary done first to speed all the later settlers is the better long term choice.
Another thing to consider is timing for the galley -- it needs to be available to move the settler for the marble site, and later to move the worker. Would it be in position for a T104-105 settler? Or for a T108 settler? If we will not have transport ready, we might as well take the first option and produce the settler a bit later.
Also, what about the worker? We will need it to mine and road the gold ASAP. So if the worker is not available at T104 or T108, again it would be better to go for the later settler build.
But if we can find a way to get the settler and worker and galley all available earlier, we should -- getting the gold site founded and growing sooner will mean we get the benefits of the gold tile sooner, plus the strength of the gold city to start building settlers or units or whatever sooner.
I like the third option of getting the settler for our fourth city (presumably the gold, unless we find something amazing to the east) earlier, around T104-105. Saving 8-9 turns on getting our gold city founded means it grows sooner, and we start working the gold sooner. That is going to be a 3H lots of commerce tile, plus providing happiness to our other cities -- every turn we delay it is going to cost us.
Note that the cost is the lost commerce and happiness -- I am not worried about losing the site to an AI unless we delay a very long time.
The second option for T108 is also appealing, and would get the granary in place to speed future growth. Shulec is right that we should be thinking in terms of multiple settlers, so getting the granary done first to speed all the later settlers is the better long term choice.
Another thing to consider is timing for the galley -- it needs to be available to move the settler for the marble site, and later to move the worker. Would it be in position for a T104-105 settler? Or for a T108 settler? If we will not have transport ready, we might as well take the first option and produce the settler a bit later.
Also, what about the worker? We will need it to mine and road the gold ASAP. So if the worker is not available at T104 or T108, again it would be better to go for the later settler build.
But if we can find a way to get the settler and worker and galley all available earlier, we should -- getting the gold site founded and growing sooner will mean we get the benefits of the gold tile sooner, plus the strength of the gold city to start building settlers or units or whatever sooner.
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I agree. This could be my option #1 or similar that builds Granary ASAP or finishes Lighthouse slowly while growing and whips the Granary at Pop 4.
Organically built Settlers in Orleans:
However, if we grant Orleans unlimited access to one Clam Net and the Corn Farm, we can organically (without whipping) build Settlers there very quickly once we have 3-5 Population there. Without whipping, the Granary isn't so critical to have so we finish the Lighthouse first and build a Granary while growing.
Using Lighthouse boosted Clam and Fish and a Corn Farm, Orleans will grow very fast (3 [Clam] + 4 [Fish] + 3 [Corn] + 2 [CC] = +12 Fpt). We can also work GH + PH Mines which add +7 Hpt = +8 Hpt total, but reduce growth by 3 = +9 Fpt. At Population 5 we can organically build a Settler at 9 Fpt + 8 Hpt = 17 Hpt. A Settler at 149H / 17 Hpt will take ~8.76t. So that means three Settlers in 9t, next one in 8t.
More likely (Paris needs the PH Mine), we can also work just the GH Mine which adds +3 Hpt = +4 Hpt total, but reduce growth by 1 = +11 Fpt. At Population 4 we can organically build a Settler at 11 Fpt + 4 Hpt = 15 Hpt. A Settler at 149H / 15 Hpt will take ~9.9t. So that means Settlers every 10t. I'm liking this option the best now. We can start the first Settler when Orleans get to Pop 4 on turn 99; 1st Settler on t111 and the next on t121 is my prediction; Or a little sooner if I maximize Orleans growth a little to Paris' detriment: 1st Settler on t110 and the next on t120.
Option 2 in my previous post completes a Settler by t108 Organically. However, with the netted Fish in t102, it may actually complete by t106 or t107. At t102, Orleans with Population 3 will have +12 FPt and 1 Hpt = 13 Hpt. A Settler at 149H / 13 Hpt will take ~11.5t. Every 11.5 turns isn't a bad rate of building a Settler in Orleans. We can probably get the two Settlers out on t106 and t118. After that we can continue building Granary and start a 2nd Galley to grow to Population 4 or 5 or even 6, cranking up the Settler rate a bit. Paris can still grow some using 2 Clams or remain stable with 1 Clam.
Limits to Paris: Without Corn Farm, PH Mine, and 1 of 3 Clams, Paris has (3 [Clam] + 3 [Corn] + 2 [CC] = +8 Fpt) and (2F1H, 2F1H, 1F3H, CC) 6 Hpt or 8 Fpt + 6 Hpt = 14 Hpt. A Settler at 149H / 14 Hpt will take ~10.6t, after it recovers from whipping The Oracle, regrowing to Pop 6, but it will be busy building Forge and The Colossus. So we can't permit Orleans to keep the PH Mine.
Sun Tzu Wu
