SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

[bcool]

GP farm
T101 Build research. We have 1t in a spy from T100. Working pigs, fish, clams, FP farm, grassland farm, coast and 2 scientists.
T102 build worker working Pig, Fish, Clam, FPfarm, Gfarm, Gmine, 2 scienitists
T103 build worker working same except switch Gmine to coast (to get most OF from 2 pop whip of worker) Worker should be at 29/60 hammers.
T104 Important build research to preserve the OF hammers from the worker whip
T105 gets additional pop from Hanging Gardens
The whipped worker moves 1N1W to build the Gmine. That closes the needed mining worker turns for GP farm, so we can build the G lib and N epic with no stress.

Okay I understand Walter Wolf's comment now... I messed up on the details for GPFarm.

on T104 you have to whip the worker (maximize food and hammer output, so work the Grass mine instead of the grass farm for example)
on T105 revolt
T106 if we settle marble we can start the Great Library.

cross post

Walter Wolf fixed it properly.
clarifications in blue

EDIT:
GP farm
T101 worker
T102 Worker (work coast instead of grass mine to avoid getting 30 or more hammers)
T103 whip; research you will still be building the worker this turn after the whip. (maximize tiles so that the total of food & hammers is maximized, so work the grass mine instead of the grassfarm for example. I think you should even turn off the scientists this turn and work coasts or other tiles that give us more food/hammers unless you need them to finish Literature in a timely basis)
T104 research
T105 Anarchy; G library

 

[bcool]

OK, I added the proposed changes to the last version of the PPP (post #1645), so I am posting only the changes (in green). Would play tonight … 12 – 13 hours from now.
I'm just not sure which turn do we get AI tech research visibility (T103 or the next?), as I would stop at the point we get it (research visibility).

Stop on T103 after the infiltration, because even if the research doesn't show up in the lower right corner, we will get city visibility on the western witches and should know what they are researching immediately after the infiltration.

from ppp on #1645

New worker from Stone city

T102 move 1S2W, to the Wash/SC shared tile for a cottage

just to be clear this worker should do this now that we are settling on the marble.

 

[mabraham]

Still, I think we should really devote a few chariots to scouting ASAP.

For sure. Multiple chariots are definitely on the near-term to-do list.

Btw, now that you mention MP warriors, we netted a whole warrior (in GP farm) from the iron gift plan .

The MP in GPfarm should be Amundsen who moved down from NW of Silver City. I haven't looked to see what's actually happened

The iron gifting plan came about when we decided to go hard at HG, then met the western witches, so we needed another settle,r and then we got enough tech to trade for Alpha, so needed spies... we'd have been building warriors and chariots if we hadn't met the western witches I'm glad we did meet them, though!

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I'll loose the scientists.
Do I have a green light?

 

[mabraham]

PPP and bcool's suggestions for it look good.

 

[bcool]

The MP in GPfarm should be Amundsen who moved down from NW of Silver City. I haven't looked to see what's actually happened

Amundsen is sitting up in the NE corner, the MP in GPFarm is the one it produced. Amundsen can move to GPFarm but I don't see why now. it can hang out in Silver to be its MP (unneeded, but I don't see any other useful purpose for him for now)

I think we built 2 warriors, one in GPFarm and in Gems, no?

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I think we did. Check the city screenshot on previous page.
I'm on phone= complicated

 

[bcool]

I took a closer look at the research situation, and I don't think you want to turn off scientists. In fact you may want to go to some lengths to maximize the research we do.

Ideally we finish Literature at the end of T104. So we need 312 research in 4 turns.

We make ~46 research at 0% research with 2 scientists in GPFarm, Gems, and Stone City
We make ~122 research at 100% research with 2 scientists in the same cities

We are going to whip Stone city so we are going to have a hard time maintaining that research. So after the whip you might want to switch the gold mine to Silver City so that you can still run 2 scientists in Stone City after the whip (turning off the stone quarry as well).
Okay to be more specific.
On T101 0% science run 1 scienist in Stone City after the whip (keep the gold mine)
On T102 0% science switch the gold mine to Silver City (which grows to 2 pop) and run 2 scientists in Stone City
On T103 100% science keeping gold in Silver City I think even though it doesn't have a library
On T104 go 10%? science to get literature if necessary or possible.

Don't turn off scientists in GPFarm (if the computer kills the scientists for GPFarm's whips, make sure you turn them on again)


If we produce 46 on T101, 46 on T102, 122 on T103, and 46 on T104 then we produce 260 raw science.
260*1.2 (since literature has a prerequisite) = 312 exactly.

That is why we must go to lengths not to turn off scientists...


And yes we built a warrior in Gems and a warrior in GPFarm.

The 2nd warrior in Gems probably should be sent down to Isengard to be its MP (after we build roads between Gems and Isengard, so in the next turn set)
Amsendun can hang out in Silver city or be sent to GPFarm so that it can be sent to the Northern witches to scout eventually if we anticipate building a galley soon somewhere.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

+ 46 if from building research in GP farm right now (1 hammer). We are building the worker in the next couple turns, so I might put silver city or culture bridge or something for the few missing bakers at T103/T104. I am stopping at T103, so we will have a clearer picture then.

EDIT: Isengard has quite a few hammers, and will be producing a charriot on T104. I think it's the best candidate for an emergency situation. (we will probably have anarchy at the time, so it would delay it for 2 turns (the chariot). Let's hope it doesn't turn out necessary).

 

[bcool]

+ 46 if from building research in GP farm right now (1 hammer). We are building the worker in the next couple turns, so I might put silver city or culture bridge or something for the few missing bakers at T103/T104. I am stopping at T103, so we will have a clearer picture then.

EDIT: Isengard has quite a few hammers, and will be producing a charriot on T104. I think it's the best candidate for an emergency situation. (we will probably have anarchy at the time, so it would delay it for 2 turns (the chariot). Let's hope it doesn't turn out necessary).

I think it best not to build research unless absolutely necessary. That's why I think you should go to lengths that I suggested to keep the gold worked and scientists in Stone city going.

Just to be clear we are starting the worker in GPFarm this turn.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Spoiler :

Reference number: 11253
Game: C-IV SGOTM 14
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Walter_Wolf
Date submitted: 2011-10-21
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 300BC
Player race: America
Firaxis score: 453
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 00:42:33
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 16:44:56
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Dorothy_300-BC_Oct-22-2011_00-11-13.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG014_BC0300_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.
News Update: The Wizard of Oz is still alive


Here is your Session Turn Log from 350 BC to 300 BC:

Turn 101, 350 BC: Gems City has grown to size 8.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Gems City can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 101, 350 BC: GP Farm has grown to size 8.
Turn 101, 350 BC: GP Farm can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 20 turns.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Isengard has grown to size 4.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the West/Good Witch of the West is the worst enemy of Wicked Witch of the East/Good Witch of the East.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the East/Good Witch of the East is the worst enemy of Wicked Witch of the West/Good Witch of the West.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the South will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the South will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the West will trade Code of Laws, Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the West will trade Code of Laws, Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the North will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the South/Wicked Witch of the South is the worst enemy of Wicked Witch of the North/Good Witch of the North.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the West/Good Witch of the West is the worst enemy of Wicked Witch of the East/Good Witch of the East.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the East/Good Witch of the East is the worst enemy of Good Witch of the South/Wicked Witch of the South, Wicked Witch of the West/Good Witch of the West.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the South will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the South will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the West will trade Code of Laws, Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the West will trade Code of Laws, Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Wicked Witch of the North will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Monarchy, Monotheism
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Iron
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 101, 350 BC: Silver City will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Culture Bridge will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have trained a Worker in Stone City. Work has now begun on a Spy.
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have trained a Settler in Gems City. Work has now begun on a Spy.
Turn 101, 350 BC: You have constructed a Barracks in Isengard. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 101, 350 BC: Good Witch of the East converts to Buddhism!

Turn 102, 325 BC: Stone City can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Gems City can hurry Spy for 2⇴ with 36ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 102, 325 BC: GP Farm can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 19ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Silver City has grown to size 2.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Isengard can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 12ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Culture Bridge has grown to size 2.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Culture Bridge can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Washington will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Silver City will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Isengard will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 102, 325 BC: You have trained a Axeman in Isengard. Work has now begun on a Chariot.
Turn 102, 325 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Culture Bridge. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Good Witch of the South has founded Niani in a distant land.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Wicked Witch of the South has founded kwaDukuza in a distant land.
Turn 102, 325 BC: Christianity has been founded in a distant land!
Turn 102, 325 BC: Good Witch of the East has founded Hyderabad in a distant land.

Turn 103, 300 BC: Washington has grown to size 5.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Isengard has grown to size 3.
Turn 103, 300 BC: Isengard can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 15ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

We are at T103 now.

T101 Aesthetics traded for Col with Gandhi. After the whips, we got only 37 bakers (45 - 7.5 rounded down I guess) towards Literature (maybe I should have kept two scientists in Stone city). Asoka converted to buddhism.
T102 nothing spectacular happened. worker actions and city builds according to plan.
T103 Mansa Musa came by asking to trade Aesthetics for Monarchy. I refused, and didn't get any diplo penalty (is that the default utcome or leader dependant?). The Mansa/Shaka pair founded a city each, and Asoka founded one also.
The infiltration was sucessfull. We can now see the Western Witches builds and research. They are researching Construction at the moment. 8 turns to go. I found Gandhi's capital, and he is building a settler and a worker in the two cities we can see. Trojan horse is building an archer.

This is the F4 tech situation at T103:

Spoiler :

 

[shulec]

Nice work. Good findings with Gandhi.

You asked-- when the AI ask for a trade, there is never a diplo hit for declining.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

You asked-- when the AI ask for a trade, there is never a diplo hit for declining.

all right then, thanks. I actually never pay much attention to diplomacy, so don't know the details of various encounter events .

 

[shulec]

all right then, thanks. I actually never pay much attention to diplomacy, so don't know the details of various encounter events .

Excellent! Now you know one area where you can focus that can help your game up to Immortal or one up from wherever you are!

 

[shulec]

Here are the cities we can see:

Spoiler :

Dehli is 12 turns from it next GP and has 13% odds of getting a Great Scientist.

Mansa/Shaka have gone WHEOOHRN. Asoka/Ragnar are their worst emenies. Maybe after we steal some techs, we intervene and bribe a declaration from Liz/Genghis on Mansa/Shaka.

 

[mabraham]

OK, so the information to hand is that nobody we know about is teching Philo, and probably the Western guys are not popping a GScientist fast enough.

So I think we should be full steam ahead for that GScientist and a steal of MC.

 

[bcool]

So I think we should be full steam ahead for that GScientist and a steal of MC.

I agree and looking at the espionage screen...

there is a good chance we will see both the north's research and the east's research next turn. But neither of them can research philosophy.

Spoiler :

and walter_wolf everything looks good in the save.

Of course be careful since several units passed their turns in the real save (I assume you will wake them up and use them, but it is something to avoid in the save you pass to a new person).

Literature should be possible still with 100% this turn (T103) and maybe 20% T104. maybe switch a tile or two around to make more commerce if necessary but I doubt we need to build research anywhere.

 

[bcool]

I think the time has come when we can't make everything perfect...

We have 6-7 weeks left in the game, so I think we must do our best now to make turnsets 3 days from got it to finishing playing. So Got it, PPP, feedback, and play in 3 days.

Just something to keep in mind when we ask for stopping points. We might be able to speed things up by making "I will pause for input from those online at the moment" but not 24 hours for input from everyone. I think we are going to have to try and do our best to trust each other to make decent decisions.

We might finish in less than 120 turns, but I want to avoid a late rush rush rush phase if we can.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ya, we are down to 51 days roughly and are at turn 103/500.

What is the best way to go about speeding up turnsets without sacrificing too much distilled wisdom? Should we spend a day hashing out goals and units and then let the person play 10 turns towards those agreed upon goals? Keep doing what we are doing only at a frenzied pace?

I'm not really sure how we can go faster.

 

[bcool]

I think we can go faster if we have fewer stopping points and more pause and check with who is available at the published-in-advance play time. Those who really want to give input into those mid-turn decisions can try to be available for them, but we can't keep stopping for 24 hours for every decision.

We can develop guidelines for those decisions in the PPP and those online can help, but we can't all contribute I don't think and keep the pace going fast enough.

I think we can still keep what we are doing with fewer stopping points and maybe with a bit more urgency when it is your turn set to get PPP out for feedback and perhaps quicker feedback on the feedback you do receive.

I'm not suggesting by the way that Walter Wolf's turn has been too slow. We needed to consult with these important tech trades and other decisions. I'm just hoping we can make future turnsets a bit faster.